Ukraine-The End Game-What happens next?

[gringo]

      The diplomatic fallout and repercussions of the already infamous "Oval Office shouting match" has seemingly in one fell swoop shattered the so-called "NATO alliance". A cold war anachronism anyway, long past its use by date and with NATO members now openly in conflict with each other, it appears to be heading to the dustbin of history where it belongs. Once the Soviet Union dissolved, NATO became obsolete and should also have disbanded. Its "raison d'etre" disappeared with the Soviet Union and it was left as a "defensive alliance" with no adversary to "defend" against. From that point onwards, any objective reading of NATO history, interventions and expansions since 1991 can only conclude that NATO is an aggressive military alliance acting on behalf of the financial and corporate interests of controlled "Western democracies ". I expect "NATO will not go gentle into that good night, but rage, rage against the dying of the light". The belated NATO demise does however seem inevitable now. How do others see this?
      Ukraine, itself, could also follow NATO in that dustbin of history. It is likely that Ukraine will break up further and lose more than the current four oblasts(Donetsk, Lugansk, Zaporizhzhia, Kherson) and Crimea currently "disputed". It seems destined to be heading for internal strife and repercussions once the current regime is defeated. Will Kharkhov, Dnipropetrovsk, Kherson and Odessa vote to also join Russia or leave Ukraine? What of formerly and historically Hungarian, Polish and Romanian territories? The already existing divisions in the hybrid state of Ukraine can only be exacerbated by the repercussions of this losing war and further break up seems inevitable to me.
     This is scratching the surface of likely outcomes/changes that the the world is facing in what are clearly defining events in setting the course of international politics, finance and world relations for the coming future. We are approaching the "Versailles" and "Yalta" of this generation in my view. There is a commonly held view that "Versailles" made WW2 and therefore "Yalta" inevitable. Most of us recognise that a "New World Order" is taking shape. What will the new "Yalta" look like? What will be the biggest changes and outcomes for the winners/losers of current defining events? Who will be, ultimately, the winners/losers?

[Steve_uk]

      The diplomatic fallout and repercussions of the already infamous "Oval Office shouting match" has seemingly in one fell swoop shattered the so-called "NATO alliance". A cold war anachronism anyway, long past its use by date and with NATO members now openly in conflict with each other, it appears to be heading to the dustbin of history where it belongs. Once the Soviet Union dissolved, NATO became obsolete and should also have disbanded. Its "raison d'etre" disappeared with the Soviet Union and it was left as a "defensive alliance" with no adversary to "defend" against. From that point onwards, any objective reading of NATO history, interventions and expansions since 1991 can only conclude that NATO is an aggressive military alliance acting on behalf of the financial and corporate interests of controlled "Western democracies ". I expect "NATO will not go gentle into that good night, but rage, rage against the dying of the light". The belated NATO demise does however seem inevitable now. How do others see this?
      Ukraine, itself, could also follow NATO in that dustbin of history. It is likely that Ukraine will break up further and lose more than the current four oblasts(Donetsk, Lugansk, Zaporizhzhia, Kherson) and Crimea currently "disputed". It seems destined to be heading for internal strife and repercussions once the current regime is defeated. Will Kharkhov, Dnipropetrovsk, Kherson and Odessa vote to also join Russia or leave Ukraine? What of formerly and historically Hungarian, Polish and Romanian territories? The already existing divisions in the hybrid state of Ukraine can only be exacerbated by the repercussions of this losing war and further break up seems inevitable to me.
     This is scratching the surface of likely outcomes/changes that the the world is facing in what are clearly defining events in setting the course of international politics, finance and world relations for the coming future. We are approaching the "Versailles" and "Yalta" of this generation in my view. There is a commonly held view that "Versailles" made WW2 and therefore "Yalta" inevitable. Most of us recognise that a "New World Order" is taking shape. What will the new "Yalta" look like? What will be the biggest changes and outcomes for the winners/losers of current defining events? Who will be, ultimately, the winners/losers?

The problem I have with all this is that there's no democracy in Russia. If Putin has no democratic legitimacy and rules by terror we may well be back to Yalta days, but not, I sense, in the way you meant it.

[gringo]

The problem I have with all this is that there's no democracy in Russia. If Putin has no democratic legitimacy and rules by terror we may well be back to Yalta days, but not, I sense, in the way you meant it.

    Putin has more "democratic legitimacy" than any Western leader. One of the repercussions of NATO and Ukraine's defeat will be the "lifting of the veil". The warmongers will be exposed as the cost of the defeat becomes impossible to hide. There are many consequences yet to play out, Steve. Many western governments went all in on defeating Russia and gaining access to wealth in the Eastern regions of Ukraine. Russia occupies the land that is the collateral for our "investments". The US under Trump have simply seen the writing on the wall and are getting out early to leave the blame on others, but make no mistake, we are in the blame game stage now. It is over but the repercussions are yet to fully play out.
     

[Hardy Boy]

    Putin has more "democratic legitimacy" than any Western leader. One of the repercussions of NATO and Ukraine's defeat will be the "lifting of the veil". The warmongers will be exposed as the cost of the defeat becomes impossible to hide. There are many consequences yet to play out, Steve. Many western governments went all in on defeating Russia and gaining access to wealth in the Eastern regions of Ukraine. Russia occupies the land that is the collateral for our "investments". The US under Trump have simply seen the writing on the wall and are getting out early to leave the blame on others, but make no mistake, we are in the blame game stage now. It is over but the repercussions are yet to fully play out.
   

Putin holds all the cards Gringo, like you have been trying to tell everyone, and the fact there is a New World Order.

And the ultra pro-Kremlin Komsomolskaya Pravda had this message for European leaders:
"You were warned. Don't wave threats and ultimatums in the face of the bear. Don't try to impose conditions in talks that have nothing to do with you.
"Just sit in the lobby and breathe in the smell of the new world order."