The moving of the adult bodies

[Bubo bubo]

I know you have been discussing Adam's favourite topics (Sea Wall and AM) but this is an important point. If the adult 's bodies were moved why does liver mortis suggest they were not moved.

Liver mortis begins within 20 to 30 minutes post death. However dependent on the ambient factors in play it can take between 6 and 12 hours to fully form. This is a very large time window. If a body is moved the liver mortis will change to the new positioning. Thus since we are talking of a 4 and a half hour time frame (03.00am to 07.30 am) more if you use the SOCO activity it is possible that the bodies were re-staged and given that PV only saw the CS photos his conclusions could be entirely accurate even though it is possible that the adult bodies were moved.

So it cannot be argued that the bodies could not have been restaged because of liver mortis.

[David1819]

I know you have been discussing Adam's favourite topics (Sea Wall and AM) but this is an important point. If the adult 's bodies were moved why does liver mortis suggest they were not moved.

Liver mortis begins within 20 to 30 minutes post death. However dependent on the ambient factors in play it can take between 6 and 12 hours to fully form. This is a very large time window. If a body is moved the liver mortis will change to the new positioning. Thus since we are talking of a 4 and a half hour time frame (03.00am to 07.30 am) more if you use the SOCO activity it is possible that the bodies were re-staged and given that PV only saw the CS photos his conclusions could be entirely accurate even though it is possible that the adult bodies were moved.

So it cannot be argued that the bodies could not have been restaged because of liver mortis.

I suppose its possible that Nevils body could have been knocked or pushed over during the entry, and then he was put back in a position/location that resembled how they first found him.

Ron Cook in on record saying the crime scene photos of kitchen do not show things in same place he first saw them.

[Cambridgecutie]

I know you have been discussing Adam's favourite topics (Sea Wall and AM) but this is an important point. If the adult 's bodies were moved why does liver mortis suggest they were not moved.

Liver mortis begins within 20 to 30 minutes post death. However dependent on the ambient factors in play it can take between 6 and 12 hours to fully form. This is a very large time window. If a body is moved the liver mortis will change to the new positioning. Thus since we are talking of a 4 and a half hour time frame (03.00am to 07.30 am) more if you use the SOCO activity it is possible that the bodies were re-staged and given that PV only saw the CS photos his conclusions could be entirely accurate even though it is possible that the adult bodies were moved.

So it cannot be argued that the bodies could not have been restaged because of liver mortis.

Are you ever going to make a post that doesn't involve a conspiracy?

[BarefootDanC]

I know you have been discussing Adam's favourite topics (Sea Wall and AM) but this is an important point. If the adult 's bodies were moved why does liver mortis suggest they were not moved.

Liver mortis begins within 20 to 30 minutes post death. However dependent on the ambient factors in play it can take between 6 and 12 hours to fully form. This is a very large time window. If a body is moved the liver mortis will change to the new positioning. Thus since we are talking of a 4 and a half hour time frame (03.00am to 07.30 am) more if you use the SOCO activity it is possible that the bodies were re-staged and given that PV only saw the CS photos his conclusions could be entirely accurate even though it is possible that the adult bodies were moved.

So it cannot be argued that the bodies could not have been restaged because of liver mortis.

Do you mean liver mortis or rigor mortis?

[Bubo bubo]

Do you mean liver mortis or rigor mortis?

I know the difference. I am referring to Liver mortis.

[Bubo bubo]

Are you ever going to make a post that doesn't involve a conspiracy?

No. They did not restage the CS to frame JB. It was a coverup in the first instance. It was only later that they changed and manipulated evidence in order to get a conviction. They conspired.

[Cambridgecutie]

No. They did not restage the CS to frame JB. It was a coverup in the first instance. It was only later that they changed and manipulated evidence in order to get a conviction. They conspired.

There is not a shred of evidence the soc in the kitchen was in any shape or form changed from when the firearms team entered.  It is just another one of your very many conspiracy theories.

The soc did not form any part of the prosecution case against JB:

151. The prosecution relied upon the following areas of evidence:

i) The appellant's expressed dislike of his family;

ii) His speaking of his plans to kill his family and thereafter his confessions to his girlfriend, Julie Mugford;

iii) The finding of his mother's bicycle at Goldhanger;

iv) The appellant's admitted ability to effect covert entry into and exit from the farmhouse and the finding of the hacksaw blade outside the bathroom window. His claim to have entered the house in that way after the first arrest was an attempt to explain these findings;

v) Because on the facts of the case it could only have been the appellant or Sheila Caffell who carried out the killings, the factors below proved they were not the responsibility of the appellant's sister:

a) Although seriously mentally ill, there had been no indication of any deterioration in her mental health in the days before the killings. Neither had she expressed any recent suicidal thoughts and the expert evidence was that she would not have harmed her children or her father;

b) Save for the appellant nobody had seen her use a gun and she had no interest in them. Sheila Caffell also had very poor co-ordination and would not have been capable of loading and operating the rifle nor would she have had the required knowledge to do so;

c) She would not have been able physically to have overcome her father (who was fit, strong and 6' 4" tall) during the struggle which undoubtedly took place before his death in the kitchen;

d) Her hands and feet were clean. They were not blood stained and neither was there any sugar upon them;

e) Hand swabs from her body did not reveal the levels of lead to be expected in somebody who must have re-loaded the magazine of the gun on at least two occasions; and

f) Her clothing was relatively clean and she was not injured in the way that might be expected of somebody involved in a struggle. Her long fingernails were still intact and undamaged.

vi) The sound moderator had on any view been attached to the rifle during the fight with Nevill Bamber in the kitchen. But if Sheila Caffell had committed suicide it must have been removed before she shot herself. The following aspects of the evidence established it was still in place on the gun when the appellant's sister was murdered:

a) The blood grouping analysis proved (on the particular facts of the case) that Sheila Caffell's blood was inside the moderator; and

b) Had the appellant's sister murdered the other members of her family with the moderator attached to the gun and then discovered she could not reach the trigger to kill herself, the moderator would have been found next to her body. There would have been no reason for her to have removed it and returned it to the gun cupboard before going back upstairs to commit suicide in her parents' room.

vii) The appellant's account of the telephone call from his father could be proved to be false for the following reasons:

a) His father was too badly injured to have spoken to anybody;

b) The telephone in the kitchen was not obviously blood stained;

c) As a matter of common sense, Nevill Bamber would have called the police before the appellant;

d) Had the appellant really received such a call, he would have immediately made a 999 call, alerted the farm workers who lived close to the farmhouse and then driven at speed to his parents home; and

e) Instead he had spoken to Julie Mugford before calling the police. When he subsequently contacted the Police, it was not by way of the emergency system.

viii) He stood to inherit considerable sums of money.

[Bubo bubo]

There is not a shred of evidence the soc in the kitchen was in any shape or form changed from when the firearms team entered.  It is just another one of your very many conspiracy theories.

The soc did not form any part of the prosecution case against JB:

151. The prosecution relied upon the following areas of evidence:

i) The appellant's expressed dislike of his family;

ii) His speaking of his plans to kill his family and thereafter his confessions to his girlfriend, Julie Mugford;

iii) The finding of his mother's bicycle at Goldhanger;

iv) The appellant's admitted ability to effect covert entry into and exit from the farmhouse and the finding of the hacksaw blade outside the bathroom window. His claim to have entered the house in that way after the first arrest was an attempt to explain these findings;

v) Because on the facts of the case it could only have been the appellant or Sheila Caffell who carried out the killings, the factors below proved they were not the responsibility of the appellant's sister:

a) Although seriously mentally ill, there had been no indication of any deterioration in her mental health in the days before the killings. Neither had she expressed any recent suicidal thoughts and the expert evidence was that she would not have harmed her children or her father;

b) Save for the appellant nobody had seen her use a gun and she had no interest in them. Sheila Caffell also had very poor co-ordination and would not have been capable of loading and operating the rifle nor would she have had the required knowledge to do so;

c) She would not have been able physically to have overcome her father (who was fit, strong and 6' 4" tall) during the struggle which undoubtedly took place before his death in the kitchen;

d) Her hands and feet were clean. They were not blood stained and neither was there any sugar upon them;

e) Hand swabs from her body did not reveal the levels of lead to be expected in somebody who must have re-loaded the magazine of the gun on at least two occasions; and

f) Her clothing was relatively clean and she was not injured in the way that might be expected of somebody involved in a struggle. Her long fingernails were still intact and undamaged.

vi) The sound moderator had on any view been attached to the rifle during the fight with Nevill Bamber in the kitchen. But if Sheila Caffell had committed suicide it must have been removed before she shot herself. The following aspects of the evidence established it was still in place on the gun when the appellant's sister was murdered:

a) The blood grouping analysis proved (on the particular facts of the case) that Sheila Caffell's blood was inside the moderator; and

b) Had the appellant's sister murdered the other members of her family with the moderator attached to the gun and then discovered she could not reach the trigger to kill herself, the moderator would have been found next to her body. There would have been no reason for her to have removed it and returned it to the gun cupboard before going back upstairs to commit suicide in her parents' room.

vii) The appellant's account of the telephone call from his father could be proved to be false for the following reasons:

a) His father was too badly injured to have spoken to anybody;

b) The telephone in the kitchen was not obviously blood stained;

c) As a matter of common sense, Nevill Bamber would have called the police before the appellant;

d) Had the appellant really received such a call, he would have immediately made a 999 call, alerted the farm workers who lived close to the farmhouse and then driven at speed to his parents home; and

e) Instead he had spoken to Julie Mugford before calling the police. When he subsequently contacted the Police, it was not by way of the emergency system.

viii) He stood to inherit considerable sums of money.

I see what you say but whatever the information we have been given there is still a possibility that the bodies were moved. You can spout all you like but it does not change this fact