This is the area where I think the police originally found Shela?

[Hartley]

This is the location of that photograph, together with approx. locations of external doors and windows.

[mike tesko]

Also how does anyone know for sure that in the photo of the pantry, that is definitely a rifle butt indentation? That could have been any number of objects that caused it??

If it is a stone floor then I seriously doubt that a rifle butt did that?

... Let me add, that I strongly suspect that blood from the first wound to Sheila's neck was spilled on that part of the back kitchen (pantry) floor, and the fact that it was spilled onto a concrete floor is important and very significant? As will become more than apparant in due course - for now though, please be assured that the police put down SOC sawdust/sand on the blood on that floor, and that at one stage the butt of a rifle was resting there, lolled up against something that was subsequently moved during the stage managing of the scene before the crime scene photographs were taken. I am confident that Sheila's blood was spilled on that part of the back kitchen floor and I feel 100% certain that if and when that part of the floor is examined and checked for the presence of her DNA, it will go a long way towards proving that Sheila bled profusely downstairs in that room...

[Hartley]

Also how does anyone know for sure that in the photo of the pantry, that is definitely a rifle butt indentation? That could have been any number of objects that caused it??

If it is a stone floor then I seriously doubt that a rifle butt did that?

... Let me add, that I strongly suspect that blood from the first wound to Sheila's neck was spilled on that part of the back kitchen (pantry) floor, and the fact that it was spilled onto a concrete floor is important and very significant? As will become more than apparant in due course - for now though, please be assured that the police put down SOC sawdust/sand on the blood on that floor, and that at one stage the butt of a rifle was resting there, lolled up against something that was subsequently moved during the stage managing of the scene before the crime scene photographs were taken. I am confident that Sheila's blood was spilled on that part of the back kitchen floor and I feel 100% certain that if and when that part of the floor is examined and checked for the presence of her DNA, it will go a long way towards proving that Sheila bled profusely downstairs in that room...

So which is it? Strongly suspect, or 100% certain?
And what is it that you are basing this theory on, is it this photograph alone?

I strongly suspect that I am 100% certain that there is no sawdust or sand, as I pointed out two posts ago.

[mike tesko]

Also how does anyone know for sure that in the photo of the pantry, that is definitely a rifle butt indentation? That could have been any number of objects that caused it??

If it is a stone floor then I seriously doubt that a rifle butt did that?

... Let me add, that I strongly suspect that blood from the first wound to Sheila's neck was spilled on that part of the back kitchen (pantry) floor, and the fact that it was spilled onto a concrete floor is important and very significant? As will become more than apparant in due course - for now though, please be assured that the police put down SOC sawdust/sand on the blood on that floor, and that at one stage the butt of a rifle was resting there, lolled up against something that was subsequently moved during the stage managing of the scene before the crime scene photographs were taken. I am confident that Sheila's blood was spilled on that part of the back kitchen floor and I feel 100% certain that if and when that part of the floor is examined and checked for the presence of her DNA, it will go a long way towards proving that Sheila bled profusely downstairs in that room...

So which is it? Strongly suspect, or 100% certain?
And what is it that you are basing this theory on, is it this photograph alone?

I strongly suspect that I am 100% certain that there is no sawdust or sand, as I pointed out two posts ago.

... Mr Sutherst and other photo, experts will determine whether or not I am correct about the SOC sawdust/sand and the DNA examination of that part of the concrete floor, and any results obtained, will or should settle this matter, one way or another?

[Hartley]

... Mr Sutherst and other photo, experts will determine whether or not I am correct about the SOC sawdust/sand and the DNA examination of that part of the concrete floor, and any results obtained, will or should settle this matter, one way or another?

Well if Sutherst is looking at this then I look forward to his conclusions.

With regards to DNA examinations, I can assure you that no examinations to date have taken place. Whether or not such evidence even if it was present (which as mentioned I do not believe), I wonder whether it would still be present after 26 years of being cleaned, the paviours may have even been regrouted during that time, I'm not sure but I have a feeling that they were.

[Hartley]

Mike, do you also still believe that there are two bullet casings shown in that photograph?

[Enigma]

Zooming in, that looks more like sunlight than sawdust or sand to me. You can see the joins in the tiles within the lightened area which you wouldn't see unless it was a very thin layer of sawdust/sand.
Secondly if it was sawdust or sand surely it would be greatly discoloured if it was used to soak up blood?
I don't agree with these assumptions.

[Hartley]

Also I note that whilst suggesting Sheila was in that room and seen by Collins through the kitchen window, you seem to be overlooking the fact that the sunlight (sorry sawdust) is in the middle of the room and not visible from the kitchen window. It's also a very small amount of sunlight (sorry again, sand), I don't see how that would, as you suggest cover up:

Sheila bled profusely downstairs in that room...

[Enigma]

It looks like there is a handbag with a strap on the window shelf or something simular that is shadowed in the sunlight.
There are straight edges and the area is way to squared off for sand or sawdust poured onto the floor.

[Roch]

If it was a patch of sunlight and not sand, would there still be dappled effect?  Or in other words, in sunlight, would any unevenness or mottling in floor itself still be visible? 

[Hartley]

If it was a patch of sunlight and not sand, would there still be dappled effect?  Or in other words, in sunlight, would any unevenness or mottling in floor itself still be visible?

I think it would appear pretty much as shown in the photograph.

The edges are too crisp for it to be a grained substance spilt on the floor. The hook is a shadow, by something similar to the handles on the bags dog food, or a ladle perhaps.

[Roch]

If it was a patch of sunlight and not sand, would there still be dappled effect?  Or in other words, in sunlight, would any unevenness or mottling in floor itself still be visible?

I think it would appear pretty much as shown in the photograph.

The edges are too crisp for it to be a grained substance spilt on the floor. The hook is a shadow, by something similar to the handles on the bags dog food, or a ladle perhaps.

The edges are more defined on one side than the other.  Very sharp of you though re the handles on the dog food bags.  +1  I'm 50/50 on this photo, between you and Mike.

[chochokeira]

I don't think it's sawdust or anything on the floor. I think it is simply a poor quality photograph and it's morning sunshine flooding through the window, the hook shape which is suggested to be a rifle butt impression is simply something on the window sill or on a shelf casting a shadow.

That's what I think anyway.

There's also one of Mikes other suggestions, that there are two bullet casings in the photograph.
Which I also disagree with.

The sun rises in the East and sets in the West.

This picture is taken by someone with their back facing North and camera lens facing South?

If so, East is to the right and West is left?

That would be consistent with this explanation.

If it's a reflection from a window, why is the reflection so small? What's obscuring the rest of the light and why can't we see some of the reflection from the object obscuring it?

[Hartley]

I don't think it's sawdust or anything on the floor. I think it is simply a poor quality photograph and it's morning sunshine flooding through the window, the hook shape which is suggested to be a rifle butt impression is simply something on the window sill or on a shelf casting a shadow.

That's what I think anyway.

There's also one of Mikes other suggestions, that there are two bullet casings in the photograph.
Which I also disagree with.

The sun rises in the East and sets in the West.

This picture is taken by someone with their back facing North and camera lens facing South?

If so, East is to the right and West is left?

That would be consistent with this explanation.

If it's a reflection from a window, why is the reflection so small? What's obscuring the rest of the light and why can't we see some of the reflection from the object obscuring it?

Your conclusion as to consistency is correct however you're the wrong way around.

Back of photographer is facing roughly South, lense facing roughly North. There is a window just out of shot to the right (East).

Not sure why there isn't more sunlight, could be a whole manner of reasons from trees outside obscuring the sun, or judging by the state of the room things could be piled up in the window.

[mike tesko]

Also I note that whilst suggesting Sheila was in that room and seen by Collins through the kitchen window, you seem to be overlooking the fact that the sunlight (sorry sawdust) is in the middle of the room and not visible from the kitchen window. It's also a very small amount of sunlight (sorry again, sand), I don't see how that would, as you suggest cover up:

Sheila bled profusely downstairs in that room...

... Your sunlight theory needs throwing into the garbage can, the angle from the kitchen window to that spot where Sheila bled, is to acute - it could not possibly be sunlight...