Author Topic: New book on Manchester Arena 2017 incident  (Read 424 times)

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Offline Roch

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New book on Manchester Arena 2017 incident
« on: November 11, 2024, 02:08:PM »
I believe this follows on from Hall's work, which itself followed on from the work of UK Critical Thinker.


Offline Steve_uk

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Re: New book on Manchester Arena 2017 incident
« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2024, 08:15:PM »
I believe this follows on from Hall's work, which itself followed on from the work of UK Critical Thinker.
There's a Podcast here: https://www.audible.co.uk/podcast/Iain-Davis/B0DFYK5GSN?loginAttempt=true

Offline Roch

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Re: New book on Manchester Arena 2017 incident
« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2024, 10:49:PM »
There's a Podcast here: https://www.audible.co.uk/podcast/Iain-Davis/B0DFYK5GSN?loginAttempt=true

Thanks, I managed to access it via Davis's website.  He reckons Hall gave a good account of himself in court. Contrary to the initial case hearing, Hall managed to get some of his evidence brought up due to the way the prosecution barrister approached their questioning of Hall.  The judge also read Hall's book.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2024, 10:50:PM by Roch »

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: New book on Manchester Arena 2017 incident
« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2024, 10:22:PM »
Thanks, I managed to access it via Davis's website.  He reckons Hall gave a good account of himself in court. Contrary to the initial case hearing, Hall managed to get some of his evidence brought up due to the way the prosecution barrister approached their questioning of Hall.  The judge also read Hall's book.
I found this revelation interesting. It was a year before the attack. I think the reference to it has been withdrawn to avoid embarrassment to the authorities: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p03tpz64#:~:text=Greater%20Manchester%20Police%20has%20apologised,of%20England's%20largest%20shopping%20centres.

Offline Curiosity

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Re: New book on Manchester Arena 2017 incident
« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2024, 07:59:AM »
I found this revelation interesting. It was a year before the attack. I think the reference to it has been withdrawn to avoid embarrassment to the authorities: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p03tpz64#:~:text=Greater%20Manchester%20Police%20has%20apologised,of%20England's%20largest%20shopping%20centres.
No, it's still online -

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-manchester-36252574

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/may/11/allahu-akbar-manchester-terror-drill-scripted-police

No doubt this mock terrorist exercise at the Trafford Centre gave Salman Abedi and his brother further impetus (regarding their extremist views) to carry out the real murderous attack at the Manchester Arena 12 months later -

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/manchester-arena-bomb-inquiry-tragic-21642682
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Offline Roch

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Re: New book on Manchester Arena 2017 incident
« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2024, 08:36:AM »
No, it's still online -

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-manchester-36252574

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/may/11/allahu-akbar-manchester-terror-drill-scripted-police

No doubt this mock terrorist exercise at the Trafford Centre gave Salman Abedi and his brother further impetus (regarding their extremist views) to carry out the real murderous attack at the Manchester Arena 12 months later -

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/manchester-arena-bomb-inquiry-tragic-21642682

That's one way of looking at it. Here's another. On the same day as the 7/7 terror incident in London, there was a kind of drill being carried out at exactly the same stations that were involved in the real incident.

Coincidence?

Do you have any idea in terms of mathematical probability, that a terror incident and a drill can take place at the same time, in the same locations, but be unconnected?
« Last Edit: November 13, 2024, 08:37:AM by Roch »

Offline Curiosity

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Re: New book on Manchester Arena 2017 incident
« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2024, 09:02:AM »
That's one way of looking at it. Here's another. On the same day as the 7/7 terror incident in London, there was a kind of drill being carried out at exactly the same stations that were involved in the real incident.

Coincidence?

Do you have any idea in terms of mathematical probability, that a terror incident and a drill can take place at the same time, in the same locations, but be unconnected?
I don't deal with questionable statistics and probabilities.  Do you have any empathy with the families of 22 victims actually killed in the Manchester bombing or are you one of the suggestible flock blindly trailing behind shepherd Hall?
I have nothing to offer but blood, toil, tears and furballs.

Offline Roch

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Re: New book on Manchester Arena 2017 incident
« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2024, 09:45:AM »
I don't deal with questionable statistics and probabilities.  Do you have any empathy with the families of 22 victims actually killed in the Manchester bombing or are you one of the suggestible flock blindly trailing behind shepherd Hall?

It's a reasonable question. If you are unable to answer then maybe someone else can

I don't believe that people were victims of a bomb at Manchester Arena in 2017. That does not mean that nobody is genuinely deceased and nobody got serious injuries. But for those poor souls who are dead and or dealing with life changing injuries, it was not caused by a bomb at Manchester Arena in 2017.

Online gringo

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Re: New book on Manchester Arena 2017 incident
« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2024, 12:06:AM »
I found this revelation interesting. It was a year before the attack. I think the reference to it has been withdrawn to avoid embarrassment to the authorities: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p03tpz64#:~:text=Greater%20Manchester%20Police%20has%20apologised,of%20England's%20largest%20shopping%20centres.
 

    Posted by: Curiosity: "No doubt this mock terrorist exercise at the Trafford Centre gave Salman Abedi and his brother further impetus (regarding their extremist views) to carry out the real murderous attack at the Manchester Arena 12 months later -"

    Posted by: Roch: That's one way of looking at it. Here's another. On the same day as the 7/7 terror incident in London, there was a kind of drill being carried out at exactly the same stations that were involved in the real incident.

Coincidence?

Do you have any idea in terms of mathematical probability, that a terror incident and a drill can take place at the same time, in the same locations, but be unconnected?


    In light of events subsequent to the "exercise" a year earlier, it has the appearance of a "dress rehearsal" viewed now, Roch. The 7/7 "attack" which as you say, "coincided" with a mock exercise ??? ???. It is an oddity that requires further investigation. There were also drills on 9/11. Even the limited hangout on Wikipedia about those drills begs questions;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_government_operations_and_exercises_on_September_11,_2001

     
     

Offline David1819

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Re: New book on Manchester Arena 2017 incident
« Reply #9 on: November 15, 2024, 12:10:PM »
 

    Posted by: Curiosity: "No doubt this mock terrorist exercise at the Trafford Centre gave Salman Abedi and his brother further impetus (regarding their extremist views) to carry out the real murderous attack at the Manchester Arena 12 months later -"

    Posted by: Roch: That's one way of looking at it. Here's another. On the same day as the 7/7 terror incident in London, there was a kind of drill being carried out at exactly the same stations that were involved in the real incident.

Coincidence?

Do you have any idea in terms of mathematical probability, that a terror incident and a drill can take place at the same time, in the same locations, but be unconnected?


    In light of events subsequent to the "exercise" a year earlier, it has the appearance of a "dress rehearsal" viewed now, Roch. The 7/7 "attack" which as you say, "coincided" with a mock exercise ??? ???. It is an oddity that requires further investigation. There were also drills on 9/11. Even the limited hangout on Wikipedia about those drills begs questions;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_government_operations_and_exercises_on_September_11,_2001
   
   

There was no drill on 7/7. Just some guy giving a powerpoint point presentation to 6 people in an office, the guy doing the presentation has commented on it (quotes below). 

Quote
"
There has been much nonsense written about why my company ran an exercise
on 7 July 2005 that had very close parallels to the real thing that day.
Since then I have made several attempts to add my own comments to numerous
sites that seem to get increasingly excited about their own conspiracy
theories and in the process exclude any rational debate. It seems those who
occupy the world of finding conspiracy theories to replace just about any
coincidence, do not want to have any dialogue with those offering a
different view, but I have not yet given up hope. I am therefore hoping,
perhaps naively, that someone might like to read an honest and factual
account about a particular exercise my company ran in London three years
ago.

Unfortunately, the BBC had postponed in 2008 a programme in their
'conspiracy files' series that would have done this. Our client three years
ago agreed to be named in the BBC programme since the attitude of the
producer and his team was very balanced (several conspiracy theorists were
also invited to take part). We even allowed our complete exercise material
to be made available to the BBC. Regrettably broadcasting in 2008 might have
jeopardised an ongoing court case, so they had little choice about
postponing it to 2009.

Early in 2005 Reed Elsevier, an organisation specialising in information
and publishing that employs 1,000 people in and around London, asked us to
help them prepare an effective crisis management plan and rehearse it before
sign-off. Several draft scenarios were drawn up and the crisis team
themselves set the exercise date and time: 9.00am on 7 July.

The test was planned as a table-top walk through for about six people (the
CM team) in a lecture room with all injects simulated. Everything was on MS
PowerPoint. The location of their Central London office near to Chancery
Lane was chosen as one test site. With many staff travelling to work via the
London underground system, the chosen exercise simulated incendiary devices
on three trains, very similar to a real IRA attack in 1992, as well as other
events.

As there had been eighteen terrorist bomb attacks on tube trains prior to
2005, choosing the London Underground was logical rather than just
prescient. With this in mind it was hardly surprising that Deutsche Bank had
run a similar exercise a few days before and, prior to that, a multi-agency
(and much publicised) exercise code-named Osiris II had simulated a
terrorist attack at Bank tube station. Moreover, I had also taken part in a
BBC Panorama programme in 2004 as a panellist alongside Michael Portillo MP
et al, in an unscripted debate (we had no idea at all what the scenario was
to be?) on how London might once again, deal with terrorist attacks, only
this time it was fictional (created entirely by the BBC).

In short, some of the research for our exercise had already been done. The
scenario developed for our client even started by using fictitious news
items from the Panorama programme then, as with any walk through exercise,
events unfolded solely on a screen as dictated by the facilitator without
any external injects or actions beyond the exercise room. Also factored into
the scenario was to be an above ground fictitious bomb exploding not far
from the head office of the protected Jewish Chronicle magazine where for
exercise purposes, our imagined terrorists would have been aware that
commuters would now be walking to work (past a building already considered a
target) as some tube stations would have been closed.

Of just eight nearby tube stations that fell within possible exercise
scope, three were chosen that, by coincidence, were involved in the awful
drama that actually took place on 7 July 2005. A level of scenario
validation that on this occasion, we could have done without.

An exercise that turns into the real thing is not that unusual. For
example, in January 2003, thirty people were injured when a tube train
derailed and hit a wall at speed. At the same time, the City of London
Police were running an exercise for their central casualty bureau where the
team quickly abandoned their plans and swung into action to cope with the
real thing.

For a surprising number of people such coincidents cannot be accepted as
such. There just has to be a conspiracy behind them, despite the obvious
point that painstaking research will always identify probable above possible
scenarios. By the way, the only reason I was asked to speak on TV news that
day, when there was still much confusion about the real tragedies, was to
encourage more organisations to thoroughly plan their own exercises knowing
the threat of terrorism is and remains, very real. One tragic consequence
being Islam, a great Abrahamic, monotheistic faith (along with Judaism and
Christianity), has undeservedly become vilified by some people.

Peter Power
Visor Consultants"



Offline handyman

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Re: New book on Manchester Arena 2017 incident
« Reply #10 on: November 21, 2024, 03:30:AM »
Interesting, I never knew that Power had also factored into the scenario an above ground fictitious bomb, exploding not far from the head office of the protected Jewish Chronicle magazine.
I was of the opinion that when he stated in 2005 that Visor had an exercise going on at the same 3 tube stations as the explosions, he was creating a red herring for conspiracy theorists, when in actual fact his exercise was the scene of the Tavistock Square bus bombing.

Reed Elsevier have a good working relationship with the BMA in Tavistock Square.
Which was the company that Richmal Oates Whitehead worked for. She mysteriously died a few weeks later, after attending the wounded. She'd also become the victim of a vicious smear campaign.

A lot of people jumped on board thinking the Tavistock Institute were involved, unaware they are based in Tabernacle street not Tavistock Square.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2024, 08:25:AM by handyman »