Author Topic: Melanie Phillips: The case for Israel  (Read 33760 times)

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Offline ngb1066

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Re: Melanie Phillips: The case for Israel
« Reply #60 on: May 11, 2025, 09:07:PM »
Video for gringo, ngb1066 and others: https://youtu.be/eodG-yJ3Qyc

It is an utterly awful video, painful to watch.  Unfortunately people like Melanie Phillips are going to provoke a wave of antisemitism which will last a generation at least.  What keeps me sane is that many (possibly the majority) of the finest people I knew when I first became active in politics were Jews and those I still know are in the forefront of opposing Zionist genocide.  I am not a fan of organised religion and have no fondness for the Roman Catholic Church but you are a self professed Anglo-Catholic and I would have thought the last Pope would have influenced you with his principled stand on this issue.

   

Online Steve_uk

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Re: Melanie Phillips: The case for Israel
« Reply #61 on: May 11, 2025, 10:09:PM »
It is an utterly awful video, painful to watch.  Unfortunately people like Melanie Phillips are going to provoke a wave of antisemitism which will last a generation at least.  What keeps me sane is that many (possibly the majority) of the finest people I knew when I first became active in politics were Jews and those I still know are in the forefront of opposing Zionist genocide.  I am not a fan of organised religion and have no fondness for the Roman Catholic Church but you are a self professed Anglo-Catholic and I would have thought the last Pope would have influenced you with his principled stand on this issue.

   
I'm well aware of the deaths of Christians and Muslims in Christian places of worship. There are always innocent casualties in war: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60588885

Offline ngb1066

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Re: Melanie Phillips: The case for Israel
« Reply #62 on: May 12, 2025, 09:32:AM »
I'm well aware of the deaths of Christians and Muslims in Christian places of worship. There are always innocent casualties in war: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60588885

The Pope was not lamenting "collateral damage" to civilians as a by product of war, he was calling out the genocidal war crimes of Israel.  I am sure Melanie Phillips considered the Pope to be just another antisemite, spouting "Jew hate" - a favourite phrase of hers.

 

Online Steve_uk

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Re: Melanie Phillips: The case for Israel
« Reply #63 on: May 12, 2025, 06:17:PM »
The Pope was not lamenting "collateral damage" to civilians as a by product of war, he was calling out the genocidal war crimes of Israel. I am sure Melanie Phillips considered the Pope to be just another antisemite, spouting "Jew hate" - a favourite phrase of hers.
Can you blame her? It has been around 2000 years.

Offline ngb1066

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Re: Melanie Phillips: The case for Israel
« Reply #64 on: May 12, 2025, 09:50:PM »
Can you blame her? It has been around 2000 years.

I can blame her, and do.  There is no excuse for this evil. 

 

Online gringo

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Re: Melanie Phillips: The case for Israel
« Reply #65 on: May 13, 2025, 01:54:AM »
Video for gringo, ngb1066 and others: https://youtu.be/eodG-yJ3Qyc
     6 minutes watch with a bit of advice that you would benefit from, Steve. Don't be amongst the last to be still riding the genocide supporting train

https://x.com/caitoz/status/1921926283979620584

Online gringo

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Re: Melanie Phillips: The case for Israel
« Reply #66 on: May 13, 2025, 02:21:AM »
The Pope was not lamenting "collateral damage" to civilians as a by product of war, he was calling out the genocidal war crimes of Israel. I am sure Melanie Phillips considered the Pope to be just another antisemite, spouting "Jew hate" - a favourite phrase of hers.
    The highlighted part of ngb's comment is the the part that really required your response, Steve. Not the part that you highlighted. The fact that you chose to ignore the meat of ngb's comment is an admission that your position is indefensible. Do you seriously expect anyone to believe that Israels mass killing has been "collateral" and not intentional? I doubt that anyone even believes that you believe it. Never mind the Pope, you only have to listen to Israeli politicians, spokespersons and media who talk openly of their genocidal plans. You would have to be deaf, dumb, blind and stupid to believe that Israel are not committing genocide. 

Online Roch

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Re: Melanie Phillips: The case for Israel
« Reply #67 on: May 13, 2025, 10:21:AM »
     6 minutes watch with a bit of advice that you would benefit from, Steve. Don't be amongst the last to be still riding the genocide supporting train

https://x.com/caitoz/status/1921926283979620584

An excellent short piece that Gringo.

Offline ngb1066

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Re: Melanie Phillips: The case for Israel
« Reply #68 on: May 13, 2025, 11:12:AM »
An excellent short piece that Gringo.

It is excellent and it could have been made specifically for Steve.  However it seems that there is no depravity on the part of Israel which is bad enough to attract even mild criticism, let alone condemnation, from him.

 

Online gringo

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Re: Melanie Phillips: The case for Israel
« Reply #69 on: May 13, 2025, 03:25:PM »
An excellent short piece that Gringo.
    It is unfortunate that those who the words are aimed at are the least likely to hear them, Roch. It "could have been made specifically for Steve", as ngb observes. I get the impression that Steve will be with the genocidaires to the end. When everyone else has abandoned the genocide bus and it is just Mad Mel Phillips now driving the bus over the cliff edge, Steve will be next to her, both ranting into the void. David will be sat at the back calling the disembarking passengers tankies and conspiritards

Online Steve_uk

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Re: Melanie Phillips: The case for Israel
« Reply #70 on: May 13, 2025, 05:31:PM »
    It is unfortunate that those who the words are aimed at are the least likely to hear them, Roch. It "could have been made specifically for Steve", as ngb observes. I get the impression that Steve will be with the genocidaires to the end. When everyone else has abandoned the genocide bus and it is just Mad Mel Phillips now driving the bus over the cliff edge, Steve will be next to her, both ranting into the void. David will be sat at the back calling the disembarking passengers tankies and conspiritards
A map for gringo, ngb1066, Roch et al. https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/map-of-the-jewish-refugees-1948-1972

A hostage from the October 7 massacre speaks: https://youtu.be/9Lqj2dPICMg

Online Steve_uk

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Re: Melanie Phillips: The case for Israel
« Reply #71 on: May 13, 2025, 05:39:PM »
It is excellent and it could have been made specifically for Steve.  However it seems that there is no depravity on the part of Israel which is bad enough to attract even mild criticism, let alone condemnation, from him.

 
NGB1066 given that the Palestinians have been offered their own state five times since 1936 I'm curious to discover how exactly you envisage the Middle East developing in forthcoming years.

Online gringo

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Re: Melanie Phillips: The case for Israel
« Reply #72 on: May 13, 2025, 07:31:PM »
NGB1066 given that the Palestinians have been offered their own state five times since 1936 I'm curious to discover how exactly you envisage the Middle East developing in forthcoming years.
    It is a lie that Palestinians "have been offered" their own state five times. In whose gift is it to "offer" the Palestinians a state and what form did these supposed "offers take, Steve? A lie doesn't become true just because it is oft repeated. The Middle East will develop without western interference in forthcoming years. The Western colonialists are losing their grip as the bases, which give them their power projection abilities, become increasingly vulnerable and not defendable against drones and missiles. As the West withdraws, Israel and other Western aligned Arab countries weaken. The occupation in Palestine is becomingly increasingly fragile and unsustainable and is fast approaching its "use by date". Without US/NATO presence, many of the Arab world leaders would also be likely to fall. Minus the West and their diktats, threats and terrorism, I'm sure the Middle East will develop in its own way, Steve. It was the Zionists, after all, who introduced terrorism to the region.

 https://www.palestine-studies.org/en/node/1654849

Online Steve_uk

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Re: Melanie Phillips: The case for Israel
« Reply #73 on: May 13, 2025, 08:19:PM »
    It is a lie that Palestinians "have been offered" their own state five times. In whose gift is it to "offer" the Palestinians a state and what form did these supposed "offers take, Steve? A lie doesn't become true just because it is oft repeated. The Middle East will develop without western interference in forthcoming years. The Western colonialists are losing their grip as the bases, which give them their power projection abilities, become increasingly vulnerable and not defendable against drones and missiles. As the West withdraws, Israel and other Western aligned Arab countries weaken. The occupation in Palestine is becomingly increasingly fragile and unsustainable and is fast approaching its "use by date". Without US/NATO presence, many of the Arab world leaders would also be likely to fall. Minus the West and their diktats, threats and terrorism, I'm sure the Middle East will develop in its own way, Steve. It was the Zionists, after all, who introduced terrorism to the region.

 https://www.palestine-studies.org/en/node/1654849
Let me flesh it out for you: https://youtu.be/76NytvQAIs0

Online gringo

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Re: Melanie Phillips: The case for Israel
« Reply #74 on: May 14, 2025, 12:58:AM »
Let me flesh it out for you: https://youtu.be/76NytvQAIs0
    As usual you are incapable of fleshing anything out, incapable of even asking the most basic questions of the propaganda that you digest and nor does the patronising video that you linked flesh anything out. It manages, if anything, to dumb down even further your already dumb take.
      To take the explanation, or fleshing out if you prefer :), of the first of these supposed "five offers of a state" in 1936 given in the childishly patronising video that you posted;
      According to our narrator(highlighted in red with my comment added below in black), speaking as if he is addressing a 8/9 year old;

    Script:

If Israel just allowed the Palestinians to have a state of their own, there would be peace in the Middle East, right? That’s what you hear from UN ambassadors, European diplomats and most college professors.

But what if I told you that Israel has already offered the Palestinians a state of their own - and not just once, but on five separate occasions? 

Don’t believe me?

Let’s review the record.


     1. It isn't within Israel's gift to offer Palestine a state.
     2. He follows this falsehood with the strawman made up of un-named UN ambassadors, diplomats and college professors who apparently claim that there would be peace if Israel allowed this state.
     Starts off with a lie as its basic premise and predictably goes downhill after that, but yeah, let's "review the record" of these kind Israeli offers ::) :-[

After the breakup of the Ottoman Empire following World War I, Britain took control of most of the Middle East, including the area that constitutes modern Israel.

Seventeen years later, in 1936, the Arabs rebelled against the British, and against their Jewish neighbors.

The British formed a task force – the Peel Commission – to study the cause of the rebellion. The commission concluded that the reason for the violence was that two peoples – Jews and Arabs – wanted to govern the same land.


     This shows an embarrassingly ill informed, biased and childish understanding that is just laughable. Why and how were the British in control of Palestine? How can this be mentioned without giving the context of the infamous 1917 "Balfour Agreement" between the UK government and Zionist, Jewish banker Lord Walter Rothschild? Who were these Jewish neighbours? Who were the Irgun? the Haganah? The Balfour Agreement and other dirty deals the UK did with the Zionist bankers were the cause of the Peel Commission to be called. It was Zionists who introduced terror to Palestine. The Arab rebellion was a result of these dirty deals and the introduction of violent Ashkenazi European Jewish Zionists as a direct consequence of UK Foreign Secretary, Lord Balfour and Lord Rothschilds agreement. All of this important historical context is simply ignored in the "Janet and John" type commentary which offers such glib remarks as, "two peoples – Jews and Arabs – wanted to govern the same land. " offered by, "David Brog, Executive Director of the Maccabee Task Force". Neither he, nor you, consider and don't even know the important historical context around these lies about supposed offers of a state to the Palestinians and how they fit into the 20th century history of the region.

 
    The answer, the Peel Commission concluded, would be to create two independent states – one for the Jews, and one for the Arabs. A two-state solution. The suggested split was heavily in favor of the Arabs. The British offered them 80 percent of the disputed territory; the Jews, the remaining 20 percent. Yet, despite the tiny size of their proposed state, the Jews voted to accept this offer. But the Arabs rejected it and resumed their violent rebellion. Rejection number one.

     A predictably childish explanation to conclude our "fleshed out" version of the Palestinian rejection of the first offer, with an outright lie tagged on at the end because the truth destroys the entire premise. "The Jews voted to accept this offer". If this claim is untrue(spoiler alert-it is) then the entire premise of the argument is falsified; that being that the Zionists have always been willing to share the land but the Arabs are agreement incapable. Below is the Jewish reaction, from wiki;

"On 20 August 1937, the Twentieth Zionist Congress expressed that, at the time of the Balfour Declaration, it was understood that the Jewish National Home was to be established in the whole of historic Palestine, including Trans-Jordan, and that inherent in the Declaration was the possibility of the evolution of Palestine into a Jewish State.[36]

While some factions at the Congress supported the Peel Report, arguing that later the borders could be adjusted, others opposed the proposal because the Jewish State would be too small. The Congress decided to reject the specific borders recommended by the Peel Commission, but empowered its executive to negotiate a more favorable plan for a Jewish State in Palestine"

     Or, in plain English Steve, the Zionists also rejected the "Peel Commission" recommendations. In red is the script, verbatim, of the first one and a half minutes of the Janet and John video that you posted. 1 min 30 seconds of ill informed, childish drivel ending in an outright lie. In the remaining 4 minutes, it got no better. Do you really think that your claim of 5 offers is "fleshed out" by such a shallow offering?