Author Topic: Melanie Phillips: The case for Israel  (Read 33799 times)

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Offline David1819

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Re: Melanie Phillips: The case for Israel
« Reply #30 on: October 08, 2024, 10:59:PM »
I simply don't know where everyone wants the Jews to go?  It's too late David, they will live there now and all sides have to get on, i think it needs some reset in relations?

Nazi Germany attempted to send all European Jews to Madagascar. (It was a French colony they assumed control of at the time)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madagascar_Plan

However it would have been a Nazi police colony. As Hitler didn't trust Zionism.

He wrote -

"The Zionists try to make the rest of the world believe that the national consciousness of the Jew finds its satisfaction in the creation of a Palestinian state, the Jews again cunningly dupe the Goyim. It doesn’t even enter their heads to build up a Jewish state in Palestine for the purpose of living there. All they want is a central organization for their international world swindle, endowed with its own sovereign rights and removed from the intervention of other states: a haven for convicted scoundrels and a university for budding crooks."

Then you have the Jewish Autonomous Oblast created by the USSR. Following Stalin's infamous Doctors' Plot. That was never going to appeal to Jews. And was probably a disaster waiting to happen.

« Last Edit: October 08, 2024, 11:10:PM by David1819 »

Online Steve_uk

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Re: Melanie Phillips: The case for Israel
« Reply #31 on: October 09, 2024, 08:10:PM »
Melanie clarifies the actuality: https://youtu.be/NQ25YN6y0rg

Offline Roch

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Re: Melanie Phillips: The case for Israel
« Reply #32 on: October 09, 2024, 09:05:PM »
Steve, I'm guessing who you might pick to be on a desert island with you. Along with Melanie, probably Robert Jenrick, Maureen Lipman, Simon Heffer, Jimmy Tarbuck, Isabel Oakshott, Janet Daley, Charles Moore, Alan Partridge, Petronella Wyatt etc.

Online Steve_uk

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Re: Melanie Phillips: The case for Israel
« Reply #33 on: October 09, 2024, 09:16:PM »
Steve, I'm guessing who you might pick to be on a desert island with you. Along with Melanie, probably Robert Jenrick, Maureen Lipman, Simon Heffer, Jimmy Tarbuck, Isabel Oakshott, Janet Daley, Charles Moore, Alan Partridge, Petronella Wyatt etc.
You've got me thinking now Roch: Melanie yes, accompanied by husband Joshua, Robert Jenrick yes, but Kemi Badenoch is by far the smartest candidate in the race, so she would be good company, Jimmy Tarbuck  is funny, though not sure why you included him, Isabel Oakshott and Richard Tice I'm not too keen on (has he had one of those chin implants?), Janet Daley is okay in small doses but as an island companion no, Charles Moore definitely (he would sit at the head of the table), the last two probably not.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2024, 09:17:PM by Steve_uk »

Offline Roch

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Re: Melanie Phillips: The case for Israel
« Reply #34 on: October 09, 2024, 09:38:PM »
You've got me thinking now Roch: Melanie yes, accompanied by husband Joshua, Robert Jenrick yes, but Kemi Badenoch is by far the smartest candidate in the race, so she would be good company, Jimmy Tarbuck  is funny, though not sure why you included him, Isabel Oakshott and Richard Tice I'm not too keen on (has he had one of those chin implants?), Janet Daley is okay in small doses but as an island companion no, Charles Moore definitely (he would sit at the head of the table), the last two probably not.

Fair play to you Steve. Good answer.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2024, 09:40:PM by Roch »

Online Steve_uk

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Re: Melanie Phillips: The case for Israel
« Reply #35 on: December 28, 2024, 04:05:PM »
Letter from Melanie:


In Israel, tails are up. Despite the acute national trauma over the plight of the hostages, the continuing (if sporadic) missile attacks and the losses of soldiers’ lives that are still being sustained, there’s a general optimism that the Jewish state is winning this war and that genocidal Iran is staring at defeat.

This is because Israel grasped straight after the atrocities on October 7 2023 that it had no option but to fight until its enemies were destroyed as a military threat. Under enormous pressure throughout from the Biden administration to retreat from this goal, Jerusalem resisted because it understood that this would have meant surrender and a defenseless exposure to further exterminatory assault.

Chanukah, the eight-day festival that’s currently being celebrated throughout the Jewish world, marks a similar example of focused Jewish military resistance to extermination. However, this festival is often prettified and not properly understood.

Chanukah is not the Jewish Christmas. Nor does it merely celebrate a reported miracle of oil sufficient for only one day that lasted instead for eight. Chanukah commemorates a defeat by the Jews of a mortal threat to Jewish existence.

When the conquering Greeks arrived in Judea in 325 BCE, they set about eradicating Judaism and installing Greek culture in its place. Even while Greek leaders were declaring Jewish laws as “inimical to humanity,” many Jews were finding pagan Greek culture with its literature and poetry, drama and art, sports and philosophy, mathematics and political theories hugely seductive.

These “Hellenised” Jews even helped the Greeks rule the country by suppressing Jewish practices and persecuting its rabbinic leaders. This caused deep and lethal fissures between the Hellenised Jews and the faithful.

Only when the Greek ruler Antiochus IV hardened anti-Jewish policies by defiling the Temple, as well as outlawing Sabbath observance and circumcision, did the Jews unite behind the warrior Hasmonean family known as the Maccabees. They rose up in revolt for their liberation, defeated the Greeks and recaptured the Temple.

Many Jews find this historical account of what happened rather uncomfortable. The similarities with today are too sharp. Today’s Jews, many of whom live comfortable lives in communities around the world where they have adapted to the culture of their host nations, don’t like being reminded that assimilation poses a deadly threat to the existence of the Jewish people.

These Jews often shudder at those in their community who take a stand against such assimilation and who advocate fighting to uphold their identity and entitlements. Assimilated Jews tend to deride these co-religionists as zealots and extremists to be resisted.

So a historical account in which such zealots actually saved the Jewish people from persecution and extinction is deeply unpalatable. Better to focus on latkes, dreidels and the soft-focus story of the miraculous oil.

Assimilated Jews often regard conflict as the real killer. To them, consensus is everything. It’s an article of faith that “baseless hatred” will bring the Jewish people down — and divisions between Jews are described reflexively as “baseless”.

Such divisions are said to have been the reason that Jerusalem finally fell to Roman conquest in 70 CE, when the Jews were sent into exile with their homeland not to be recovered until 1948.

It’s certainly true that division weakens resistance against outside enemies. However, to say that it’s the one thing that can destroy the Jewish people is not only to overstate the case but to miss a crucial point.

Much more devastating is if the Jews collectively go down the wrong path — if they stop fighting to defend their identity and way of life because they have buckled under enemy pressure or have been seduced by other cultures into abandoning what they are.

The conquering Romans who arrived in Judea in 63 CE and largely oppressed the Jews found broadly three groups in that community: the Sadducee ruling elite who wanted quiet at all costs; the mainstream Pharisees who began by opposing revolt but joined it once it was underway; and the zealots who had become yet more extreme.

The Jewish community was still riven by internal divisions caused by Hellenisation. The masses viewed the Jewish elites who had adopted pagan Greek ways as working hand in hand with the Romans to extort and impoverish them. Roman religious intolerance and oppressive injustice became fused with assimilation and exploitation by their own leaders to provide much fuel for zealotry.

In the final Jewish revolt against the Romans who put it down so brutally, Jews also killed other Jews. It’s beyond doubt that the terrible slaughter that took place was much intensified as a result.

But what destroyed Judea was not Jewish division. It was Roman colonialist aggression. Even if the Jews hadn’t fought each other, the Romans would still have persecuted them.

True, compromise and negotiation are sometimes necessary and useful. During the revolt, the great Rabbi Yochanan ben Zakkai negotiated with the Roman emperor Vespasian to set up a rabbinical academy at Yavneh, thus facilitating the development of the rabbinic tradition that reinvented Judaism and saved the Jewish people.

But if the rabbinical ruling elite of Judea had prevailed, the Jews would have been a subject and persecuted people in their own land — prey not only to physical aggression but also to galloping assimilation.

Similarly, the revolt against the Greeks wasn’t just a defence against a predatory colonialist power. If the Maccabees hadn’t prevailed, the Jews would have assimilated into Greek culture and largely disappeared.

Of course, divisions weaken a community and undermine its defences. But the real issue is the reason for such division. Under both Greek and Roman rule, it was that too many Jews had forgotten what they were.

And just like today, under both the Greeks and the Romans it was universalism that weakened the Jews. Scorned and vilified for their particularism and drawn into the embrace of a less demanding culture, they became vulnerable as a result to threats of both assimilation and external attack.

Most of today’s diaspora Jews who live in western societies that disdain or even hate them choose not to fight back. Instead, they keep their heads below the parapet, pretend that the threats aren’t as bad as they actually are or choose to suck up to the governing classes who merely flick them aside. Far worse, some of these Jews actively support the ideologies that have the Jewish people in their sights.

This way lies assimilation and thus destruction. To avoid that fate, Jews have to fight for who they are and what they stand for.

Liberals will respond that, since the opposing side thinks precisely the same, who is to say who is correct? From that they conclude that fighting to defeat the other side is always wrong.

This is the trap of moral relativism, which is based on the belief that objective truth doesn’t exist and that everything is instead a matter of subjective opinion.

But that’s a lethal error. There is indeed such a thing as objective reality.

There really are abuses of power. There really is a difference between aggressors and victims. Iran really does pose a demonstrable threat to Jewish life and the survival of Israel. Assimilation really has caused huge swathes of Jews to disappear as Jews.

Not all division between Jews is “baseless hatred”. Sometimes, if one side wins over the other the Jewish people will be demonstrably harmed. Such situations require not consensus but victory for the side that would best prevent such harm.

Of course, agreement is desirable. But if Jews were to agree to a course of action that would result in their wipeout, maybe that kind of agreement wouldn’t be such a good idea.

Conflict is undesirable, division is dangerous, and war is hell. But the alternative may be far worse.

Offline ngb1066

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Re: Melanie Phillips: The case for Israel
« Reply #36 on: December 28, 2024, 04:09:PM »
A letter from Melanie:

The real message of Chanukah

To avoid both destruction and assimilation, Jews have to fight for who they are and what they stand for


This is a truly dreadful and offensive justification for the terrible crimes being committed by the genocidal Zionist regime.  The apologists for this will be judged very harshly. 



 

Online Steve_uk

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Re: Melanie Phillips: The case for Israel
« Reply #37 on: December 28, 2024, 04:47:PM »
This is a truly dreadful and offensive justification for the terrible crimes being committed by the genocidal Zionist regime.  The apologists for this will be judged very harshly.
Remind me how many fronts the Jewish state is being attacked on? How does one solve a problem which has been attempted several times but remained insoluble for years?

Online Steve_uk

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Re: Melanie Phillips: The case for Israel
« Reply #38 on: February 11, 2025, 07:11:PM »
More home truths from Melanie: https://youtu.be/xz23KR9_IKw

Offline ngb1066

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Re: Melanie Phillips: The case for Israel
« Reply #39 on: February 11, 2025, 07:58:PM »
More home truths from Melanie: https://youtu.be/xz23KR9_IKw

More total crap from one of our leading Zionist apologists for genocide and war crimes.  She is really revolting.

 
« Last Edit: February 17, 2025, 12:24:PM by ngb1066 »

Online Steve_uk

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Re: Melanie Phillips: The case for Israel
« Reply #40 on: February 11, 2025, 08:02:PM »
More total crap for one of our leading Zionist apologists for genocide and war crimes.  She is really revolting.
It's a matter of historical record that the representatives of the Palestinian side have rejected the two-state solution five times since 1936.

Online Steve_uk

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Re: Melanie Phillips: The case for Israel
« Reply #41 on: April 10, 2025, 03:25:PM »
Melanie's journey within a degenerate world. If you are short for time move on to 15:45. https://youtu.be/2HlIl-SH4G8
« Last Edit: April 10, 2025, 03:48:PM by Steve_uk »

Offline gringo

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Re: Melanie Phillips: The case for Israel
« Reply #42 on: April 10, 2025, 05:31:PM »
    Your admiration of "Mad Melanie Phillips" explains your "three wise monkeys" attitude. Anyone still defending the genocidal Israeli regime is beyond reason. You are watching a live streamed genocide unfold, complete with statements of intent from Israeli and US regimes, and are still defending the genocidaires.

    Hear no evil,
    See no evil,
    Speak no evil.

    Empire is losing and lashing out on every front, Steve. After the inevitable defeat there will be a reckoning for the Imperialists and their running dogs. People such as you who have supported this abomination will claim that they "didn't know" and were fooled by the lies. The lies are transparent and the genocide/ethnic cleansing is in your face (complete with statements of intent) so you won't be believed. Your entire worldview is about to enter the dustbin of history. Israel is not much longer for this world and their Imperial sponsors have been/are being brought down with them.
     The 21st century is the end for 500 years+ of Western colonialism/Imperialism and will be dominated by Eurasia. Development in Africa and the Global south generally will boom as they are encouraged and helped to develop by the burgeoning BRICS+. Multipolar world is happening no matter what the current unipolar hegemons do to attempt to strangle it at birth. The alliance against them is way too strong in every aspect.

Online Steve_uk

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Re: Melanie Phillips: The case for Israel
« Reply #43 on: April 10, 2025, 05:49:PM »
    Your admiration of "Mad Melanie Phillips" explains your "three wise monkeys" attitude. Anyone still defending the genocidal Israeli regime is beyond reason. You are watching a live streamed genocide unfold, complete with statements of intent from Israeli and US regimes, and are still defending the genocidaires.

    Hear no evil,
    See no evil,
    Speak no evil.

    Empire is losing and lashing out on every front, Steve. After the inevitable defeat there will be a reckoning for the Imperialists and their running dogs. People such as you who have supported this abomination will claim that they "didn't know" and were fooled by the lies. The lies are transparent and the genocide/ethnic cleansing is in your face (complete with statements of intent) so you won't be believed. Your entire worldview is about to enter the dustbin of history. Israel is not much longer for this world and their Imperial sponsors have been/are being brought down with them.
     The 21st century is the end for 500 years+ of Western colonialism/Imperialism and will be dominated by Eurasia. Development in Africa and the Global south generally will boom as they are encouraged and helped to develop by the burgeoning BRICS+. Multipolar world is happening no matter what the current unipolar hegemons do to attempt to strangle it at birth. The alliance against them is way too strong in every aspect.
The three evils you mention are symptomatic of some people's attitude to 7 October 2023. As for the cabal of autocracies, kleptocracies or whatever name you wish to call the motley crew of countries conspiring together I'd rather take the Anglosphere of USA, UK, Canada, Australia and New Zealand any day. We can manage quite well on our own, thank you.

Offline ngb1066

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Re: Melanie Phillips: The case for Israel
« Reply #44 on: April 10, 2025, 08:47:PM »
The three evils you mention are symptomatic of some people's attitude to 7 October 2023. As for the cabal of autocracies, kleptocracies or whatever name you wish to call the motley crew of countries conspiring together I'd rather take the Anglosphere of USA, UK, Canada, Australia and New Zealand any day. We can manage quite well on our own, thank you.

Is there any atrocity the Zionist state commits which you will even mildly criticise?  You are an apologist for evil.  You would have supported Herr Hitler in the 1930s.