Re: Julie Mugford Trial examination/cross examination

[Steve_uk]

Jeremy Bamber was a farm labourer who drove a vauxhall astra and lived in a cottage which his dad owned. Stop painting him out to be a master manipulator and that's looking from both sides of coin. If gulity he was just a greedy son who was hell bent on getting cash and may have had some issues in up bringing.

He manipulated nobody in his friendship group. Colin caffell remarks that Brett seemed to be the one pulling the strings and Malcolm Waters and Michael Deckers saw Jeremy Bamber as " annoying kid brother type figure"

The case is glamourised because it had everything that sells papers, handsome caddish looking son, wealthy parents, model daughter, ex girlfriend going to the police. It sells papers

I reckon the reality behind it all was much more mundane

He manipulated Julie.

[Hardy Boy]

She was manipulated by a psychopath, possibly bedazzled by the wealth in 1980s Britain. She made a fresh start and made something of herself, which manifests her true character. I'm sorry so many members here cannot see it.

i know she has done well now Steve and credit due to her, but it doesn't alter the fact, she knew he planned to kill everyone and she knew he had done it.  My personal feelings are, she played a bigger role in what she makes out, what idiot would supply their Boyfriend with sleeping Tablets with a view to putting the victims in a sleep so he could make the killing easier, that is Aiding and Abetting Steve and it doesn't matter that it happened some time after.  She Egged him on in  my view to gain some finacial reward for herself, knowing full well she had him by the Balls once he had done it.  Her remarks "i can understand you wanting to kill your Parents, but why the twins"  there is not a cat in hell she would have got off with it today and she would and should have served a lengthy Prison sentence.  She lied and lied to cover up for the Murderer knowing full well he had killed those two little boys.

[Steve_uk]

i know she has done well now Steve and credit due to her, but it doesn't alter the fact, she knew he planned to kill everyone and she knew he had done it.  My personal feelings are, she played a bigger role in what she makes out, what idiot would supply their Boyfriend with sleeping Tablets with a view to putting the victims in a sleep so he could make the killing easier, that is Aiding and Abetting Steve and it doesn't matter that it happened some time after.  She Egged him on in  my view to gain some finacial reward for herself, knowing full well she had him by the Balls once he had done it.  Her remarks "i can understand you wanting to kill your Parents, but why the twins"  there is not a cat in hell she would have got off with it today and she would and should have served a lengthy Prison sentence.  She lied and lied to cover up for the Murderer knowing full well he had killed those two little boys.

She didn't need to provide him with sleeping tablets as June had her own supply. We've been through this before in detail. Suffice to say I knew several teachers in the 1980s (mainly female) who got by on sleeping tablets, whereas the males would drink themselves silly at weekends.

[ILB]

That is correct. Julie was leaving Bamber to return to London. But they remained on speaking terms.

Would you want to be near a self confessed multiple murderer. ( Including two children) if you were a 21 year old woman?

[ILB]

Every aspect of Julie's behaviour is explained away as " a naive 20 year old girl " yet Bamber gets slated for turning to alcohol heavy. Everything Bamber does however innocuous post the tragedy gets misconceived as being deviant

Bamber being just four years older and just as naive

[Adam]

Would you want to be near a self confessed multiple murderer. ( Including two children) if you were a 21 year old woman?

No, and Julie broke away 20 days after a police car picked her up.

[Adam]

Every aspect of Julie's behaviour is explained away as " a naive 20 year old girl " yet Bamber gets slated for turning to alcohol heavy. Everything Bamber does however innocuous post the tragedy gets misconceived as being deviant

Bamber being just four years older and just as naive

Turning to alcohol?

[snow66!]

You've got some dates wrong snow66! but leaving that aside you're also missing the bigger picture. Jeremy's adoption, his upbringing, his being packed off to Gresham's in Holt, Norfolk at nine years old, his alienation from both environments and failure to bond with his parents, who subsequently rejected his first love Suzette, abandoned by Jeremy under threat of disinheritance, the Osea Road break-in, the denial in prison that the familial relationships were anything other than harmonious: all could serve as a template for a family annihilator, which is what Jeremy Bamber is.

To blame Julie in any way for the murders is cowardly and disingenuous.

If you read my posts Steve you will notice I dont blame Julie.I agree with Bubo that she had no choice but to cooperate with the police to save her skin.She probably had to sign a document never to talk about the case to the media or be jailed straight away.That is probably why she emigrated and hasn't been heard of since,due to a gagging order.

[ILB]

No, and Julie broke away 20 days after a police car picked her up.

There was no break away.

Bamber was on the phone to another woman and Julie went ape shit. He jilted her.

She tried to smother him with a pillow. She hid his car keys.

In fairness perhaps insensitive behaviour from Bamber. He is also known to have cheated on Julie throughout their relationship with other women. So it perhaps didn't come as shock to her

[ILB]

Turning to alcohol?

His behaviour post massacre, drinking, going to Amsterdam, staying in a caravan with Brett in the south of France, some trips away which he was  accompanied with the star prosecution witness.

What is the correct way to behave as a " grieving son" ? Is there a manual? Take guilt or innocence aside for one moment

[Adam]

There was no break away.

Bamber was on the phone to another woman and Julie went ape shit. He jilted her.

She tried to smother him with a pillow. She hid his car keys.

In fairness perhaps insensitive behaviour from Bamber. He is also known to have cheated on Julie throughout their relationship with other women. So it perhaps didn't come as shock to her

Will have to agree to differ.

Seems it had run it's course. Bamber wanted to continue his jolly ups with Brett. Julie wanted to return to London.

Both were young & neither were heartbroken.

But Julie wouldn't have liked Bamber goading her by asking another woman out in front of her.

[ILB]

But Julie wouldn't have liked Bamber goading her by asking another woman out in front of her.

If Bamber had supposably told Julie of what he truly was, any normal person would not be in the same room as such an individual let alone be angry about them asking another woman out in their presence.

So we go back to the "naive 20 year old girl " scenario

[Adam]

If Bamber had supposably told Julie of what he truly was, any normal person would not be in the same room as such an individual let alone be angry about them asking another woman out in their presence.

So we go back to the "naive 20 year old girl " scenario

You can't speak for everyone. As we all react differently to events.

Julie managed to break away 20 days later. She then told 5 people and approached the police.

[ILB]

You can't speak for everyone. As we all react differently to events.

Julie managed to break away 20 days later. She then told 5 people and approached the police.

You also can expect people to draw inferences as they see fit. You are quick to condemn Bamber for every discrepancy in his behaviour, then people are perfectly fine to condemn and disbelieve Julie.

Julie never " broke away " from anything, Bamber didn't have her under lock and key and as you point out,  he had seemingly lost interest preferring the company of Brett and friends. She was under no pressure from Bamber. She herself states this. In all witness statements Julie never mentions any type of control freak behaviour from Bamber.

[Adam]

You also can expect people to draw inferences as they see fit. You are quick to condemn Bamber for every discrepancy in his behaviour, then people are perfectly fine to condemn and disbelieve Julie.

Julie never " broke away " from anything, Bamber didn't have her under lock and key and as you point out,  he had seemingly lost interest preferring the company of Brett and friends. She was under no pressure from Bamber. She herself states this. In all witness statements Julie never mentions any type of control freak behaviour from Bamber.

A combination of Bamber wanting to continue his jolly ups with Brett & thinking he was now safe. Together with Julie wanting out.

Obviously Julie was going to approach the police as she had told 5 people. I don't believe Bamber goading her speeded this up as she approached the police days later.