Author Topic: Re: Julie Mugford Trial examination/cross examination  (Read 3224 times)

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Offline ILB

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Re: Re: Julie Mugford Trial examination/cross examination
« Reply #345 on: January 12, 2024, 01:14:PM »
Julie left Bamber in August to return to London.

She then told 5 people and approached the police.

Bamber jilted Julie

The guy had been tiring of the relationship for months. Can't hold it against him
« Last Edit: January 12, 2024, 01:15:PM by ILB »
If yesterday you hated me. Then today you can not stop the love that binds from me to you. And you to me

Offline ILB

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Re: Re: Julie Mugford Trial examination/cross examination
« Reply #346 on: January 12, 2024, 01:16:PM »
Her WS says she left because she couldn't take anymore.

But still asked Jeremy Bamber ( who had by all accounts admitted five times murder ) to help her move
If yesterday you hated me. Then today you can not stop the love that binds from me to you. And you to me

Offline Adam

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Re: Re: Julie Mugford Trial examination/cross examination
« Reply #347 on: January 12, 2024, 01:20:PM »
Bamber jilted Julie

The guy had been tiring of the relationship for months. Can't hold it against him

So that's why he rang her 3 times in 7 hours and got a police car to pick her up.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Adam

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Re: Re: Julie Mugford Trial examination/cross examination
« Reply #348 on: January 12, 2024, 01:21:PM »
But still asked Jeremy Bamber ( who had by all accounts admitted five times murder ) to help her move

That is correct. Julie was leaving Bamber to return to London. But they remained on speaking terms.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Adam

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Re: Re: Julie Mugford Trial examination/cross examination
« Reply #349 on: January 12, 2024, 01:44:PM »
One minute a bike is being brought over so Julie can cycle 10 miles to a mysterious gym Bamber was a member of. Then julie taken on multiple post massacre jolly ups.

The next minute he had been tiring of the relationship for months.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2024, 01:46:PM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Bubo bubo

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Re: Re: Julie Mugford Trial examination/cross examination
« Reply #350 on: January 12, 2024, 01:48:PM »
Could well be Bubo, through intimidation or exploit, control, create dependency, but when you look at the other check lists regarding Coersive Control, it's more relationship orientated and over a lenghth of time.  They needed her as much as she needed them, so i think it was a two way relationship?
I am conversant with coercive behaviour in relationships in general but the police could have really come down hard on the pair of them (SB JM). Given the delay in her coming forward there were many charges they could have threatened without even going near the fraud. I will not list them but clearly that of accomplice would be top of the list.

Faced with reputational ruin and a lengthy prison sentence it would have been a no brainer as far as she was concerned. She played ball to save her own skin IMO.

I think they built a story for her so she could 'dish the dirt' on JB but exonerate her of complicity. But this story as I and Snow have stated falls down when seen through the prism of her and SB's actions and behaviours prior to arrest and charging.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2024, 02:35:PM by Bubo bubo »

Offline Bubo bubo

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Re: Re: Julie Mugford Trial examination/cross examination
« Reply #351 on: January 12, 2024, 02:12:PM »
I am conversant with coercive behaviour in relationships in general but the police could have really come down hard on the pair of them (SB JM). Given the delay in her coming forward there were many charges they could have threatened without even going near the fraud. I will not list them but clearly that of accomplice would be top of the list.

Faced with reputational ruin and a lengthy prison sentence it would have been a no brainer as far as she was concerned. She played ball to save her own skin IMO.

I think they built a story for her so she could 'dish the dirt' on JB but exonerate her of complicity. But this story as I and Snow have stated falls down when seen through the prism of her and S's actions and behaviours prior to arrest and charging.

To my way of thinking you do not socialise with a psychopath let alone continue with an intimate and high living celebratory life style with no signs of fear or guilt. To me the fraud issue was used to give credence to the overall story line of a young girl who was imprisoned by JB because he could 'grass her up' and put her in the dock if she did not dance to his tune. It could then be used as cover to explain why she had delayed coming forward and it took time for her to build up the courage and to do the right thing which was what her conscience was urging her to do.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2024, 02:21:PM by Bubo bubo »

Online snow66!

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Re: Re: Julie Mugford Trial examination/cross examination
« Reply #352 on: January 12, 2024, 05:30:PM »
But still asked Jeremy Bamber ( who had by all accounts admitted five times murder ) to help her move
Exactly ILB,its farcical!

Online snow66!

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Re: Re: Julie Mugford Trial examination/cross examination
« Reply #353 on: January 12, 2024, 05:43:PM »
To my way of thinking you do not socialise with a psychopath let alone continue with an intimate and high living celebratory life style with no signs of fear or guilt. To me the fraud issue was used to give credence to the overall story line of a young girl who was imprisoned by JB because he could 'grass her up' and put her in the dock if she did not dance to his tune. It could then be used as cover to explain why she had delayed coming forward and it took time for her to build up the courage and to do the right thing which was what her conscience was urging her to do.
Exactly Bubo,the prosecution knew they had to invent a series of excuses as to why Julie knowingly supported a murderer for a month before going to the police.
Unfortunately they just dont ring true,and funny how everything came to a head at the same time,the break-up,the cheque fraud and the decision to go to the police.And lo and behold,even Sue Battersby went to the police at the exact same time without any consultation with Julie.
Talk about coincidences!

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Re: Julie Mugford Trial examination/cross examination
« Reply #354 on: January 12, 2024, 06:02:PM »
Thanks HB.
As I say,I may have to write a post on why it is absurd to believe that Julie thought JB was guilty before the police tried to tell her so.
I mean,just a quick instance.Julie leaves Goldhanger around  27th Aug and breaks the news that JB was responsible for the murder of his family to Susan Battersby the next day.Now the WHF murders was a huge story at the time,one of the worst shootings in British history.Yet apparently Julie tells Susan not to tell a sole that JB had his family killed,and lo and behold she agrees.
Indeed Susan is too scared to go to the police anyway incase JB finds out and goes after her.So,a tricky situation,what to do next? Well,on the 28th,the day after Susan is told there is a birthday party for Julie and what do you know,JB is invited.
Now,as I said the Bamber murders is huge news at that time,in all the papers and on TV,its a tragedy of epic proportion,and up until that time everyone thought that Sheila was responsible,in fact it had been put to rest in this regard.Now,in this climate and totally out of the blue Susan is told that it was actually JB who had his family killed.Can you imagine the shock at such news? Surely there would be no doubt in most peoples mind that the police would inevitabily have to be informed and advise Julie to steer well clear of someone who was obviously a psychpath who must be off his head. in the mean time.
But no,Susan agrees to keep quiet about JBs involvement because Julie couldn't stand the thought of JB being sent to prison.Yes,Julie's still in love with the psycho and doesn't want the killer of women and children to pay for his crimes,indeed she apparently guarenteed JB on more than one occasion that she wouldn't turn him in.
Yes,THIS IS the official story,plus the fact that Julie didn't know her concious from her subconcious mind of course,well,we all get mixed up in that particular area,dont we?
Never mind,Susan has agreed to keep her mouth shut and Julie's party is in full swing the next day when JB arrives with a car load of booze.
Now,you would expect Susan to steer well clear of JB wouldn't you? It must have given her a chill being in hs presence knowing what he had done.But no,Susan is in a happy mood and has been spraying guests with cream before JBs arrival,and rather than steer clear of him she jokingly and light heartedly threatens to spray him too! Extraordinary!
JB gets annoyed with Susans unrelenting prank however and eventually throws the Julie's birthday cake at her.Susan runs up stairs in tears,devastated that JB wouldn't caper about with her.
Susan still keeps her mouth shut though about what she knows,not divulging a word to Lizzie who comforts her.
Lizzie of course is next to be told by Julie about JBs involvement,needless to say she keeps her mouth shut too and life seems to carry on as normal with JB helping Julie to move flats and so on.
The fact is everyone seems to carry on as normal until AFTER Julie allegedly goes to the police,no one treated JB ANY differently after they were told what he had done.and JB didn't talk of any suspicious behaviour towards him from anyone.
Liz was apparently in a state of shock though after being told about JB and locked her doors in case JB came after her
Then the confrontation happened of course on 4th sept ,yet Julie phoned the next day about helping her move to new digs.This was done,and on the same day Julie asked for June's bike,sadly JB had forgot to take it.
Then,lo and behold,Julie and Lizzie get into the car with JB and Brett who take them to Piccadilly to go nightclubbing.Didn't Lizzie fear for her life any more getting into a car with a psycho?
Then,for some reason the holiday that Julie and Lizzie were planning is abandoned and they tell Malcolm Waters about JB before going to the police.
So,although Julie could not stand the thought of JB in jail and had promised him over and over again that she would not go to the police,that is exactly what she did apparently.
Does all this sound in the least bit plausable? Its absurd! And took months to prepare.
You've got some dates wrong snow66! but leaving that aside you're also missing the bigger picture. Jeremy's adoption, his upbringing, his being packed off to Gresham's in Holt, Norfolk at nine years old, his alienation from both environments and failure to bond with his parents, who subsequently rejected his first love Suzette, abandoned by Jeremy under threat of disinheritance, the Osea Road break-in, the denial in prison that the familial relationships were anything other than harmonious: all could serve as a template for a family annihilator, which is what Jeremy Bamber is.

To blame Julie in any way for the murders is cowardly and disingenuous.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2024, 06:36:PM by Steve_uk »

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Re: Julie Mugford Trial examination/cross examination
« Reply #355 on: January 12, 2024, 06:14:PM »
Everyone has tried to play down their role in this Snow, Julie say's she saw the bike three days before the murders at his house on the 4th, your not telling me she didn't ask him about it and was it for her or why he had bought his Mothers Bike to his house.  She knew all along why the bike had been brought over three days before the murders. Bamber cannot say he brought it over for the murders so he say's he's got it for Julie, which i believe they both planned to say anyway, Likewise Julie doesn't want to say he brought the Bike over for her, and she knew he had, because she wants to do him over.  Julie Mugford Lied and Lied all through this and she should be locked up in the next cell to Bamber, she should have the biggest shame on her head, because she is as much responsible for the two little boy's death and Neville and June's and Sheila.

I don't for one minute believe there was any Coercive Control from Bamber over Julie, she could have walked away from this relationship at anytime she wanted, she could have gone to the Police at anytime she wanted and she could have saved the lives of the poor victims.
She was manipulated by a psychopath, possibly bedazzled by the wealth in 1980s Britain. She made a fresh start and made something of herself, which manifests her true character. I'm sorry so many members here cannot see it.

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Re: Julie Mugford Trial examination/cross examination
« Reply #356 on: January 12, 2024, 06:16:PM »
I am conversant with coercive behaviour in relationships in general but the police could have really come down hard on the pair of them (SB JM). Given the delay in her coming forward there were many charges they could have threatened without even going near the fraud. I will not list them but clearly that of accomplice would be top of the list.

Faced with reputational ruin and a lengthy prison sentence it would have been a no brainer as far as she was concerned. She played ball to save her own skin IMO.

I think they built a story for her so she could 'dish the dirt' on JB but exonerate her of complicity
. But this story as I and Snow have stated falls down when seen through the prism of her and SB's actions and behaviours prior to arrest and charging.
Or maybe Julie was telling the truth when she came forward.

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Re: Julie Mugford Trial examination/cross examination
« Reply #357 on: January 12, 2024, 06:17:PM »
How on earth members dish the dirt on Julie but keep Jeremy innocent of five murders is a mystery someone must explain to me.

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Re: Julie Mugford Trial examination/cross examination
« Reply #358 on: January 12, 2024, 06:21:PM »
Jeremy, Julie Mugford, and all of Jeremy Bamber's friends were nasty little scumbags.

Each and every one of them.

Jeremy Bamber was at the epicenter of all of that.  He was the ringmaster, the manipulator.

Jeremy Bamber was extremely sociable, but it's fairly obvious that any good people he befriended, once they saw his nasty side or heartless side, or criminal side, those good people drifted away, leaving only the horrible, nasty, sycophantic people.

By the time Jeremy Bamber murdered his family, that nasty little group of scumbags had distilled right down over several years and had become the group that were all prepared to support and protect a murderer. They probably found it quite exciting.

The spell was broken the day he was found guilty, and they all drifted away.

And so the bizarre story that Julie Mugford tells, and the weird behaviour of all the people around him at the time, can be explained by the type of scummy and horrible people they were.

Anji Greaves waited for the verdict in a hotel room paid for by a newspaper, who were going to interview Bamber and send them both on holiday together upon his release.

At the very same time Julie Mugford was in another hotel, paid for by a newspaper waiting for the verdict prior to a 25000 pound deal to tell her story.

Anji Greaves started a relationship with Bamber after her sister, Viirginia already had a relationship with him.

Julie Mugford herself was a criminal, as was Susan Battersby.

So, these are the types of people you are dealing with.  They were not normal people.

That should go some way to explain their strange and deviant behaviour at that time.
You've never been 20 years old I suppose.

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Re: Julie Mugford Trial examination/cross examination
« Reply #359 on: January 12, 2024, 06:23:PM »
To my way of thinking you do not socialise with a psychopath let alone continue with an intimate and high living celebratory life style with no signs of fear or guilt. To me the fraud issue was used to give credence to the overall story line of a young girl who was imprisoned by JB because he could 'grass her up' and put her in the dock if she did not dance to his tune. It could then be used as cover to explain why she had delayed coming forward and it took time for her to build up the courage and to do the right thing which was what her conscience was urging her to do.
Well, you got the last bit right. There was no intimate relationship between Julie and Jeremy post-murders, according to Julie.