OFF TOPIC > Russia/Ukraine/Nato
Russia-Ukraine ICJ ruling
gringo:
--- Quote from: Steve_uk on February 01, 2024, 07:31:PM ---In other words, it wasn't in the ICJ's remit to investigate thoroughly whether Russia was a state sponsor of terrorism. It did find, however, that Russia was in breach of international law. https://www.aa.com.tr/en/world/top-un-court-ruling-defines-russia-violated-international-law-says-ukraine/3125215
--- End quote ---
No Steve. Ukraine's case against Russia was a failure by any measure. Everyone can see this, including you and the Ukrainian Foreign Ministry whom you quote :-[ Even the article that you link to back up your idiotic conclusions acknowledges those facts despite a poor attempt at sugarcoating the findings. If you were being objective and had an interest in getting to the truth of matters-you would acknowledge the uncomfortable (to your worldview) truths. That you choose to ignore or whitewash those truths away shows that you are a flag waving partisan and therefore incapable of honest debate.
Steve_uk:
--- Quote from: gringo on February 01, 2024, 08:03:PM --- No Steve. Ukraine's case against Russia was a failure by any measure. Everyone can see this, including you and the Ukrainian Foreign Ministry whom you quote :-[ Even the article that you link to back up your idiotic conclusions acknowledges those facts despite a poor attempt at sugarcoating the findings. If you were being objective and had an interest in getting to the truth of matters-you would acknowledge the uncomfortable (to your worldview) truths. That you choose to ignore or whitewash those truths away shows that you are a flag waving partisan and therefore incapable of honest debate.
--- End quote ---
The evidence wasn't found. Russia was morally guilty of not pursuing the cases hard enough. They have clamped down on the Ukrainian language in Crimea, probably ostracizing the local language speakers.
As for the BUK missile system, how can a judge sitting in The Hague possibly know for sure what was and wasn't smuggled across the 1400-mile border? https://youtu.be/8pU3KluWRkg
gringo:
--- Quote from: Steve_uk on February 01, 2024, 09:22:PM ---The evidence wasn't found. Russia was morally guilty of not pursuing the cases hard enough. They have clamped down on the Ukrainian language in Crimea, probably ostracizing the local language speakers.
As for the BUK missile system, how can a judge sitting in The Hague possibly know for sure what was and wasn't smuggled across the 1400-mile border? https://youtu.be/8pU3KluWRkg
--- End quote ---
And yet you believe the judgement of the district court of the Netherlands. The Dutch held the sham MH17 proceedings at the district court in the Hague, presumably to lend itself the gravitas of the ICJ. In truth it was a grubby show trial and an affront to justice and to those killed. If there were any confidence in the truth of the findings of the Dutch show trial then those findings would have been presented to the much higher court in terms of such international disputes. You should perhaps be asking yourself, Steve, why was the evidence that was deemed enough to convict three absent Russians in the show trial not presented to the ICJ. Supposedly the evidence exists to convict Russia, but is a secret when asking the ICJ for compensation for Russia's alleged complicity.
No court, no matter how many thousands or just tens of miles away , could rule on anything if no evidence is presented, which it wasn't. The courts distance from the alleged events is irrelevant. Presenting evidence is all that matters and all a court can judge on.
Below a link to the summary of the ruling of the ICJ. It is impossible to read that and conclude anything other than that it was a massive defeat for the Ukrainians;
https://www.icj-cij.org/sites/default/files/case-related/166/166-20240131-sum-01-00-en.pdf
It is 42 pages so I will pick out the rulings on each and every issue over the next few posts. To try and spin this as anything but a crushing legal defeat for Ukraine is delusional. Or dishonest.
Steve_uk:
"The ICJ on Friday tossed out Moscow's argument.." https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/top-un-court-says-it-has-jurisdiction-on-most-of-ukraine-s-invasion-case/ar-BB1hG1UV?ocid=msedgntp&pc=U531&cvid=7b04ee6acb3b4421ad1805baa98e6ce0&ei=8
nugnug:
https://www.lobster-magazine.co.uk/article/issue/87/volodymyr-zelensky-and-the-breadbasket-case-of-europe-the-deep-politics-of-a-hybrid-regime/
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