ICJ ruling on South Africa's case alleging genocide by Israel-What happens next?

[gringo]

https://twitter.com/i/broadcasts/1jMJgmlAqpMKL

   ICJ ruling. Utterly damns Israel and by extension those who support the now established genocidal war crimes of the Zionist entity. This order of provisional measures by the ICJ has the effect of making any who supply and support Israel's crimes against humanity complicit in the genocide.
   Any humanitarian aid convoys arranged by groups of countries to help prevent the genocide in Gaza now have the legitimacy of the ICJ ruling affirming their rights and obligations under the Genocide Convention to act to prevent a genocide. Should Israel or any western countries or coalition attempt to prevent this then they are complicit.
   With Israel already having made clear that they will "not be stopped by anyone including the ICJ", this could get interesting very quickly.
    I expect a coalition of countries to act in accordance with the ICJ measures and their own obligations as signatories of the "Genocide Convention" by arranging aid to Gaza. The question then becomes-What will Israel's western sponsors do, if and when Israel attempt to stop aid entering? Will western governments defy the ICJ? What would be the ramifications of that?
    The Zionists and their supporters are rapidly becoming international pariahs. What happens next?

[Steve_uk]

https://twitter.com/i/broadcasts/1jMJgmlAqpMKL

   ICJ ruling. Utterly damns Israel and by extension those who support the now established genocidal war crimes of the Zionist entity. This order of provisional measures by the ICJ has the effect of making any who supply and support Israel's crimes against humanity complicit in the genocide.
   Any humanitarian aid convoys arranged by groups of countries to help prevent the genocide in Gaza now have the legitimacy of the ICJ ruling affirming their rights and obligations under the Genocide Convention to act to prevent a genocide. Should Israel or any western countries or coalition attempt to prevent this then they are complicit.
   With Israel already having made clear that they will "not be stopped by anyone including the ICJ", this could get interesting very quickly.
    I expect a coalition of countries to act in accordance with the ICJ measures and their own obligations as signatories of the "Genocide Convention" by arranging aid to Gaza. The question then becomes-What will Israel's western sponsors do, if and when Israel attempt to stop aid entering? Will western governments defy the ICJ? What would be the ramifications of that?
    The Zionists and their supporters are rapidly becoming international pariahs. What happens next?

It's an interim judgement. Of course the judges are under pressure, and have to do something to justify their high salaries.

I note the United Nations Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA) is now under investigation by the US state department for various issues. https://www.timesofisrael.com/watchdog-schools-run-by-pa-celebrated-oct-7-hamas-massacres/

[gringo]

It's an interim judgement. Of course the judges are under pressure, and have to do something to justify their high salaries.

I note the United Nations Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA) is now under investigation by the US state department for various issues. https://www.timesofisrael.com/watchdog-schools-run-by-pa-celebrated-oct-7-hamas-massacres/

  Yes of course, Steve, the US state dept. investigating a complaint made by a state who have been found to have a case to answer on genocide charges and are subject to provisional measures would be worth noting to a genocide apologist. Talk about clutching at straws. Pathetic. You clearly fail to grasp the significance of today's ruling on provisional measures. Imagining that a "US state Department investigation" is in any way noteworthy when talking about an ICJ judgement on Genocide is delusional.

[Steve_uk]

  Yes of course, Steve, the US state dept. investigating a complaint made by a state who have been found to have a case to answer on genocide charges and are subject to provisional measures would be worth noting to a genocide apologist. Talk about clutching at straws. Pathetic. You clearly fail to grasp the significance of today's ruling on provisional measures. Imagining that a "US state Department investigation" is in any way noteworthy when talking about an ICJ judgement on Genocide is delusional.

You are misinformed as usual. https://www.timesofisrael.com/unrwa-sacks-staffers-who-allegedly-participated-in-oct-7-attack-us-halts-funding/

[gringo]

You are misinformed as usual. https://www.timesofisrael.com/unrwa-sacks-staffers-who-allegedly-participated-in-oct-7-attack-us-halts-funding/

   You just linked to a story that confirmed what I said. You are out of your depth, as usual. A US State Department investigation isn't the news today or any day. Israel have been found to have a case to answer on genocide charges by the ICJ. The US State Department bs is a timed distraction useful only to distract the gullible such as yourself.
     There are important and huge ramifications of this order, such as, any states supplying Israel with military aid after this is likely to find themselves as co-defendants under article III of the convention;

Article 3
The following acts shall be punishable:
(a) Genocide;
(b) Conspiracy to commit genocide;
(c) Direct and public incitement to commit genocide;
(d ) Attempt to commit genocide;
(e) Complicity in genocide.

     This judgement will have consequences over the next days/weeks which are significant. It needs to be noted that the ruling is binding not only on Israel, who will obviously ignore it, but it is also binding on every signatory to Genocide Convention(the entire UN). All signatories are bound to not only punish genocide but also to prevent genocide. This ruling compels other states to act in order to prevent genocide. Arms sales would now certainly be seen as "complicity" given the ICJ ruling.
     The duty of signatory states to enact legislation to incorporate "genocide convention" into their own national laws means any act contravening this order can be brought in the state where any act was committed (Articles V & VI of Genocide Convention). In other words, any act in the UK supporting Israel's genocide is now open to prosecution. 
     NGB's opinion, or anyone with an informed view on the legal ramifications of this, would be enlightening and more worthwhile than any reply from Steve.   

[Steve_uk]

Israel will root out Hamas. There will be collateral damage. Strange there was no hysteria from yourself when Russia ignored the ICJ in 2022. https://www.euractiv.com/section/europe-s-east/news/russia-rejects-international-court-ruling-to-stop-invasion-of-ukraine/

[gringo]

Israel will root out Hamas. There will be collateral damage. Strange there was no hysteria from yourself when Russia ignored the ICJ in 2022. https://www.euractiv.com/section/europe-s-east/news/russia-rejects-international-court-ruling-to-stop-invasion-of-ukraine/

     The "collateral damage" that you speak of has been established to not be "collateral damage" but deliberate, targeted and part of an ongoing genocide. The statements of Israeli officials making genocidal statements publicly and calling for the eradication of the Palestinians which were read out in the court establishing the intent. The ICJ has also ordered that Israel prosecute those who have made genocidal statements. The Palestinians currently being murdered by the Zionist regime are not collateral damage by any stretch, Steve. You and I both know that Israel strategy is to punish the civilian population. Their President, Prime Minister and Defence Minister have all helpfully made public statements to this effect which were read out in the court. It is these statements that helped largely to establish Israeli intent. You shame yourself to call those Palestinians under this onslaught, "collateral damage". Israel is finished as a state, Steve. They will not "root out" Hamas as you call it, they are the best recruiter Hamas could have.
     Your conflation of this case with the 2022 case against Russia is desperate and irrelevant. Two different cases on entirely different matters is not the "gotcha" you imagine it to be. If you want to discuss the 2022 case against Russia and have anything to say then start a thread on the Russia board and "share your thoughts" on the matter.
     Why are you more interested in discussing other matters (US state dept investigations and previous unconnected ICJ cases) than the matter at hand? There are going to be many repercussions and consequences of this ruling. You are very easily distracted by irrelevancies.
     The ICJ judgement is the starting gun for other countries to now act and prevent Israel's ongoing crimes. Algeria, one of the current 10 rotating members of the Security Council, are bringing a resolution to Security Council to make the ICJ ruling binding. Should the US dig their hole deeper and veto the resolution then there are are mechanisms to act without Security council resolutions via the General Assembly. The ICJ ruling specifically on the "Punishment and Prevention of Genocide" opens these possibilities.
      Israel and their western co conspirators are becoming more isolated and acquiring pariah status.

[Steve_uk]

     The "collateral damage" that you speak of has been established to not be "collateral damage" but deliberate, targeted and part of an ongoing genocide. The statements of Israeli officials making genocidal statements publicly and calling for the eradication of the Palestinians which were read out in the court establishing the intent. The ICJ has also ordered that Israel prosecute those who have made genocidal statements. The Palestinians currently being murdered by the Zionist regime are not collateral damage by any stretch, Steve. You and I both know that Israel strategy is to punish the civilian population. Their President, Prime Minister and Defence Minister have all helpfully made public statements to this effect which were read out in the court. It is these statements that helped largely to establish Israeli intent. You shame yourself to call those Palestinians under this onslaught, "collateral damage". Israel is finished as a state, Steve. They will not "root out" Hamas as you call it, they are the best recruiter Hamas could have.
     Your conflation of this case with the 2022 case against Russia is desperate and irrelevant. Two different cases on entirely different matters is not the "gotcha" you imagine it to be. If you want to discuss the 2022 case against Russia and have anything to say then start a thread on the Russia board and "share your thoughts" on the matter.
     Why are you more interested in discussing other matters (US state dept investigations and previous unconnected ICJ cases) than the matter at hand? There are going to be many repercussions and consequences of this ruling. You are very easily distracted by irrelevancies.
     The ICJ judgement is the starting gun for other countries to now act and prevent Israel's ongoing crimes. Algeria, one of the current 10 rotating members of the Security Council, are bringing a resolution to Security Council to make the ICJ ruling binding. Should the US dig their hole deeper and veto the resolution then there are are mechanisms to act without Security council resolutions via the General Assembly. The ICJ ruling specifically on the "Punishment and Prevention of Genocide" opens these possibilities.
      Israel and their western co conspirators are becoming more isolated and acquiring pariah status.

The genocide accusation is a smokescreen for allowing the residents of Gaza to continue harbouring the terrorist organization Hamas. Nobody can allow Hamas to regroup and cause another October 7. By the way: what is your and ngb1066's opinion on October 7? There was some hush for a few days: then the anti-Semitic vitriol continued.

[gringo]

    There was no hush although there ought to be from you. To claim that the genocide accusation is a smokescreen demonstrates your disinterest in the truth. The case was very well made at the ICJ linking the directed killings by Israel and statements by Israeli officials. The ICJ and world opinion agrees that the wholesale and indiscriminate killing and statements by Israeli President, PM etc unarguably meet the criteria of establishing the genocide and the intent to commit genocide. Civilian deaths measured in tens of thousands. Directed and deliberate killing of journalists, medics, UN staff in record numbers. 2 million people displaced and Israel openly advertising their plans to remove permanently the Palestinian population.
     You are deaf, dumb and blind to these realities. You simply ignore uncomfortable facts.

[Steve_uk]

    There was no hush although there ought to be from you. To claim that the genocide accusation is a smokescreen demonstrates your disinterest in the truth. The case was very well made at the ICJ linking the directed killings by Israel and statements by Israeli officials. The ICJ and world opinion agrees that the wholesale and indiscriminate killing and statements by Israeli President, PM etc unarguably meet the criteria of establishing the genocide and the intent to commit genocide. Civilian deaths measured in tens of thousands. Directed and deliberate killing of journalists, medics, UN staff in record numbers. 2 million people displaced and Israel openly advertising their plans to remove permanently the Palestinian population.
     You are deaf, dumb and blind to these realities. You simply ignore uncomfortable facts.

..and what about your deaf and dumbness to Hezbollah and Hamas? Why aren't other Muslim nations (numbering 2 billion population) taking in their brothers and sisters? Why are the Qatari paymasters subjecting Gazans to the retribution they knew would come?

[ngb1066]

   You just linked to a story that confirmed what I said. You are out of your depth, as usual. A US State Department investigation isn't the news today or any day. Israel have been found to have a case to answer on genocide charges by the ICJ. The US State Department bs is a timed distraction useful only to distract the gullible such as yourself.
     There are important and huge ramifications of this order, such as, any states supplying Israel with military aid after this is likely to find themselves as co-defendants under article III of the convention;

Article 3
The following acts shall be punishable:
(a) Genocide;
(b) Conspiracy to commit genocide;
(c) Direct and public incitement to commit genocide;
(d ) Attempt to commit genocide;
(e) Complicity in genocide.

     This judgement will have consequences over the next days/weeks which are significant. It needs to be noted that the ruling is binding not only on Israel, who will obviously ignore it, but it is also binding on every signatory to Genocide Convention(the entire UN). All signatories are bound to not only punish genocide but also to prevent genocide. This ruling compels other states to act in order to prevent genocide. Arms sales would now certainly be seen as "complicity" given the ICJ ruling.
     The duty of signatory states to enact legislation to incorporate "genocide convention" into their own national laws means any act contravening this order can be brought in the state where any act was committed (Articles V & VI of Genocide Convention). In other words, any act in the UK supporting Israel's genocide is now open to prosecution. 
     NGB's opinion, or anyone with an informed view on the legal ramifications of this, would be enlightening and more worthwhile than any reply from Steve.

I agree entirely with your detailed assessment of this.

[gringo]

I agree entirely with your detailed assessment of this.

     Thanks for that, ngb. I have more to add on the legal ramifications and possible legal avenues now open to those opposing the genocide. Where I am wrong or on more contentious ground, I would welcome your clarification/correction. Sort of, "marking my homework". I am "winging it" somewhat, having never previously felt the need to have any understanding of the "Genocide Convention" nor its incorporation into domestic law. We definitely have not seen the end of this ruling. It's after effects will soon have a momentum all of their own.

[David1819]

   ICJ ruling. Utterly damns Israel and by extension those who support the now established genocidal war crimes of the Zionist entity.

Is this is the same ICJ that rejected Yugoslavia's case against the US/NATO in 1999? Later ruling that Yugoslavia committed genocide against Muslims in Bosnia (something you deny). Thus their counterparts (also at the Hauge) have Karadzic locked up and now have issued an international arrest warrant for your hero?

That ICJ?   

[Steve_uk]

No condemnation of China either, or half-hearted compared to Gaza. https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/22311356/china-uyghur-birthrate-sterilization-genocide

[gringo]

Is this is the same ICJ that rejected Yugoslavia's case against the US/NATO in 1999? Later ruling that Yugoslavia committed genocide against Muslims in Bosnia (something you deny). Thus their counterparts (also at the Hauge) have Karadzic locked up and now have issued an international arrest warrant for your hero?

That ICJ?   

     The ICJ did not rule that Yugoslavia committed genocide, so as is usual, you are wrong. It is way more nuanced ruling than you are capable of comprehending hence your dumb one line takes. The ruling was that Yugoslavia were not guilty of the act of genocide or complicity in genocide. The failure to prevent genocide on the specific case of Srebenica is way more nuanced than a simple black/white analysis would suffice.

https://news.un.org/en/story/2007/02/210142

Equating the ICC and the ICJ (counterparts?) is the sort of ill informed nonsense to be expected from you. The ICJ has more credibility and is way less politicised and biased than the ICC. The ICJ is an official arm of the UN, unlike the ICC. The ICC is largely and widely seen as discredited and biased towards western states and many countries are not signatories to the ICC, including the US and Russia who withdrew in 2016. The US have never been members. The US have in fact gone much further than simply being being non signatories to the ICC. They also have the "Hague Invasion Act" which allows the US to invade the Hague should the ICC have the temerity to ever prosecute any Americans or their allies. This is not a serious and non-partisan court and is widely and justifiably regarded as biased.
      The ICC arrest warrant for Putin is so obviously a politically concocted charge that it has no credibility outside of western propaganda value. It has nothing to do with the ICJ, nor the UN. The most relevant countries are non signatories to the ICC.

      Are you still claiming that I have misquoted the Israeli President, Prime minister and Defence Minister? I shared their quotes earlier and you accused me of misrepresentation and providing wrongly translated quotes. Interestingly those same exact quotes were read out in the ICJ in order to establish intent of genocide by the South African representatives and were uncontested by the Israelis. You'd best get on to the ICJ and Israeli representatives to correct them as they all appear to have made the same mistake as me, David.