Author Topic: Watch the Birdie  (Read 641 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Bubo bubo

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2370
Watch the Birdie
« on: July 09, 2021, 02:09:PM »
This takes us forward from my last assertion/proposition. I have information told to me by an impeccable source that David Bird had returned to WHF on a date that he does not mention in any of his statements or testimony.

He had to go back to take photos that for various reasons could not be done on the day. To his horror carpets had been cut up and were lying around outside. This must have been the day they burned them and the bedding.

In order to complete his task he had to return them and improvise using other rugs and furniture to hide things they would not want to disclose.

In my view it is inconceivable that SOCO officers did not know something had gone badly wrong even if they did not know the exact details. They were held back from 09.20 till 10.00. I am willing to bet they went overboard in their attempts to cover their own arses for any future enquiries be they purely internal or investigations by external bodies.

I believe that it is possible that ACC Simpson ordered the cover up when he was called by Harris. The situation on the ground, secure premises, a psychotic woman, lent itself to an easy cover up and this set of circumstances also made it seem easy. I know it was just a domestic but why would a very senior officer need to contact an ACC at that time of day?

 Yes, it was a major event but there was nothing to suggest it was that important to inform the ACC. Unfortunately, they did not factor in the Family in their initial calculations. Poor old Taff Jones, it was down to him to keep them at bay. Vanezis criticised the fact that he and a ballistics expert were not called to the scene. That would have been the last thing they needed. They had to manipulate in private. For good measure they organised a training exercise to muddy the waters and trample the scene. (Despite arguments to the contrary I know someone who took part). I believe they did this to increase the number of people who had seen the staged crime scene. The rest is history as they say.

For these reason it is hard if not impossible to work out what was the original crime scene, what was changed on the day and what was improvised for photographic purposes. It is also the reason he had to say and note that he revisited the bedroom on the first day because pictures were out of sync. A lie, they were taken on another day.

Whilst we can interpret some of the manipulation many other issues can only be labelled strange. I have stated some previously.
Here are some more examples;

Why did they need an electric blanket? They already had a blue and white duvet and a pinkish bed cover? It was August and they had a window open.

Why did June not trip or at least cause a depression in the blanket if she walked around the bed?

What is that scraggy runner doing on her side of the bed; it looks as if it came from the kitchen?

In some of the pictures the box room door is now closed. I believe it was open on the day to conceal further blood evidence that could not be hidden by Sheila and the tented bible. They would have to close it to remove and or replace carpet.

Why does the pillow indicate a head shot when these were said to have occurred after she left the bed.

There is a diagram showing where the carpet samples were taken. Why has a small rug been placed in one of these areas and it seems that the two shoes, like the blue socks, have been placed so as to give an impression of permanence? Was there another pool of blood? I do not believe June would furnish a room with such a rogue item. It has no useful purpose to prevent wear and is, from a décor perspective superfluous.

Here is a thought. In the initial chaos which ensued they may have had real concerns about TOD being recorded. Did they use the electric blanket to warm June and enhance RM thereby placing her death before they entered?

David Bird’s finds

I suggested earlier SOCO would be thorough to cover their arses. Bearing this in mind it is instructive as to the exhibits David Bird found.
On Peter Haywards specimen testing lists showing dates received

12/09/85 item 22 DB1 sound moderator

20/09/85 item 83 DB2 Fire debris

20/09/85 item 84 DB3 leather gauntlet(s)

20/09/85 item 85 DB4 Glove(s)

20/09/85 item 86 DB6 Socks

In the early stages of my investigations I was intrigued by the fire debris.
The fire debris could only be from the AGA. Surely the main house fire was not in use in August and the other cremation of evidence did not take place for a couple of days.

Of what material did this debris consist? Was any of it in a state where it could be categorically identified?

Was this thoroughness as it seems to have attracted his attention early on? Was there a strong smell of burning?

What information was sought, on The Holab3 forms for the debris, etc.? Does it still exist or was it part of the later destruction of exhibits against the Judge’s Order?

Could it have been a nightie? Could it be cloths used to wipe up blood? Was it material used in the nursing of Neville?

Later I came across the answer. The document might be on here but it is on ‘Red’. The notes are hand written by Peter Hayward

1 Pieces of blanket

2 Parts of a man’s slip on shoe

3 Part of a scarf

4 Part of an overcoat

5 Parts of a plastic mackintosh

And these are just the items that were recognisable. What else was burned beyond recognition? Why did they not suggest that Jeremy had used these items himself to protect from contamination etc.? I may not have correctly identified their use but I am amazed the defence did not pick up on this.
I refer you to my reference to these items in earlier posts.

Offline Hardy Boy

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 980
Re: Watch the Birdie
« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2023, 09:28:AM »
This takes us forward from my last assertion/proposition. I have information told to me by an impeccable source that David Bird had returned to WHF on a date that he does not mention in any of his statements or testimony.


i thought he did? He went on the 10th and the 12th of Sept, and say's so in his statement,  he picks the blue socks up on the 12th of Sept?  He then hands the blue socks  to Sergeant Davidson, who records them as being found on the 13/9 which would be the day Bird probably gave them to Davidson, they then go to the Lab and the Lab recieved them on the 20/9 and records them at the Lab?

https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1037.0;attach=5374;image

https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1037.0;attach=5375;image

They are then sent to the Lab Under DB6 who recieve them on the 20/9 by Howard?

https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1721.0;attach=8297;image


He went back because he was told to go back, he had come off annual leave and returned in September, he came back to work still under the impression it was murder suicide and he didn't know about the silencer find.  He went back to take extra photo's becacuse the nature of the investigation had changed, he also went back on the 23rd of Sept to take photo's of the inside of the Gun Cupboard.


« Last Edit: October 31, 2023, 09:37:AM by Hardy Boy »

Offline Bubo bubo

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2370
Re: Watch the Birdie
« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2023, 10:18:AM »
i thought he did? He went on the 10th and the 12th of Sept, and say's so in his statement,  he picks the blue socks up on the 12th of Sept?  He then hands the blue socks  to Sergeant Davidson, who records them as being found on the 13/9 which would be the day Bird probably gave them to Davidson, they then go to the Lab and the Lab recieved them on the 20/9 and records them at the Lab?

https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1037.0;attach=5374;image

https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1037.0;attach=5375;image

They are then sent to the Lab Under DB6 who recieve them on the 20/9 by Howard?

https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1721.0;attach=8297;image


He went back because he was told to go back, he had come off annual leave and returned in September, he came back to work still under the impression it was murder suicide and he didn't know about the silencer find.  He went back to take extra photo's becacuse the nature of the investigation had changed, he also went back on the 23rd of Sept to take photo's of the inside of the Gun Cupboard.

It is a pity you are referring to only a small part of my argument.

Explain why when giving evidence to the COLP enquiry they discuss the statement which is not the same as the one you post. In this statement (with the same date) they discuss all his finds. It is clear he presented a duplicate fake statement at trial that only contained the blue socks.

Can you also explain why the blue socks were still in situ 31 days after the event. EP took what they needed on the day and burnt items in the fire pit. The following weekend JB burnt his parents clothes. Later AE went in to the premises and gave the whole place a good clean and remade the beds. Are you seriously suggesting that the blue socks laid untouched for Bird to collect?

What is more the COLP did not know about events in the time between the tragedy and the end of the first week and the removal and burning of items by JB and the police or AE's tidying up. It is also quite likely they did not have the crime scene picture of the blue socks. So they were in a situation like JB of evidence being withheld. But they would not have asked for them because that was not what they were investigating.

Ainsley made a big mistake when he took control. He did not realise that Taff had kept all the coverup finds under Birds name but in his rush to frame JB all finds were sent to the lab DB1 - DB7 and the finding by Bird (DB1) and the fire debris (DB2) scream coverup.

They had to introduce the blue socks at trial because they were front and centre in crime scene photos and the defence would no doubt have focused on them as part of their investigations.

EP did not want to introduce the other cover up finds under Birds name and so he faked the statement you are using.


Offline Bubo bubo

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2370
Re: Watch the Birdie
« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2023, 10:31:AM »
It is a pity you are referring to only a small part of my argument.

Explain why when giving evidence to the COLP enquiry they discuss the statement which is not the same as the one you post. In this statement (with the same date) they discuss all his finds. It is clear he presented a duplicate fake statement at trial that only contained the blue socks.

Can you also explain why the blue socks were still in situ 31 days after the event. EP took what they needed on the day and burnt items in the fire pit. The following weekend JB burnt his parents clothes. Later AE went in to the premises and gave the whole place a good clean and remade the beds. Are you seriously suggesting that the blue socks laid untouched for Bird to collect?

They had to introduce the blue socks at trial because they were front and centre in crime scene photos and the defence would no doubt have focused on them as part of their investigations.

EP did not want to introduce the other cover up finds under Birds name and so he faked the statement you are using.

Taff made sure that all the cover up finds were under Bird's name (the photographer) so that if another force were called in to review the case they could only present exhibits found by the other SOCO's and they would not ask or realise that some exhibits were supposedly found by another member of the team.

Bird gave a good description of his duties on the day. He was to only take photographs of exhibits when requested by Davidson, RWC and other SOCO's so why did he supposedly collect items which were not part of his remit. He gives a lame excuse as to his actions and the COLP did not question why he strayed beyond his brief and if he did collect these items why are there no photographs of his finds other than the blue socks.

Offline Hardy Boy

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 980
Re: Watch the Birdie
« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2023, 12:32:PM »
Taff made sure that all the cover up finds were under Bird's name (the photographer) so that if another force were called in to review the case they could only present exhibits found by the other SOCO's and they would not ask or realise that some exhibits were supposedly found by another member of the team.

Bird gave a good description of his duties on the day. He was to only take photographs of exhibits when requested by Davidson, RWC and other SOCO's so why did he supposedly collect items which were not part of his remit. He gives a lame excuse as to his actions and the COLP did not question why he strayed beyond his brief and if he did collect these items why are there no photographs of his finds other than the blue socks.
Oh right, so TAFF was in on the cover was he?  Bird just went along with it and allowed his name to be used for Exhibits.  Smart move from TAFF thinking well in advance.