Author Topic: Discussion: Robert Boutflours Blood Groupings in Sound Moderator  (Read 3872 times)

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Online ILB

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Re: Discussion: Robert Boutflours Blood Groupings in Sound Moderator
« Reply #30 on: October 08, 2023, 01:21:PM »
You are wrong.  All blood stained exhibits first underwent a test for a positive reaction for blood.  They then underwent a second test to determine the blood was human in origin.  These tests preceded tests to determine blood groups: antigens, enzymes and proteins.

The AK1 enzyme means there is fifty percent chance on paper at least it is animal blood.
If yesterday you hated me. Then today you can not stop the love that binds from me to you. And you to me

Offline killingeve

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Re: Discussion: Robert Boutflours Blood Groupings in Sound Moderator
« Reply #31 on: October 08, 2023, 01:23:PM »
Where is supporting evidence that Sheila's blood group is as stated? Her medical records are sealed.

There was no hair.

A scratch can occur at any time?

It is interesting how supporters are happy to rely on RB's blood groups matching the flake but not Sheila's!

The test results are documented in various places for all victims along with Bamber and the relatives.  The defence also sent its own expert, Dr Patrick Lincoln, to the FSS site to verify all the findings. 

A grey hair was observed by EP apparently attached to the silencer.  Possibly pertained to Nevill.  But fair play to John Hayward at trial as he did say it probably held little forensic value.

A bit of a stretch to suggest a scratch can occur at any time given the paint found ingrained on the silencer matched the Aga paint where all the evidence suggested some sort of struggle had taken place.

Offline killingeve

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Re: Discussion: Robert Boutflours Blood Groupings in Sound Moderator
« Reply #32 on: October 08, 2023, 01:23:PM »
The AK1 enzyme means there is fifty percent chance on paper at least it is animal blood.

No it does not.

Offline Adam

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Re: Discussion: Robert Boutflours Blood Groupings in Sound Moderator
« Reply #33 on: October 08, 2023, 01:41:PM »
PV's report also says Rigor Mortais in June was well established.

This negates the theory that the police shot June 3 times because she was a threat holding a shot gun. After Sheila had shot her 4 times.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2023, 01:43:PM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Adam

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Re: Discussion: Robert Boutflours Blood Groupings in Sound Moderator
« Reply #34 on: October 08, 2023, 01:51:PM »
PV's report that Rigor Mortais was well established in Nevill.

Obviously he was not moved.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2023, 01:51:PM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline snow66!

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Re: Discussion: Robert Boutflours Blood Groupings in Sound Moderator
« Reply #35 on: October 08, 2023, 02:00:PM »
Sorry iv'e only just seen this, No i wasn't Chastising you, i don't even Know you, i attacked your post and i say again it is absolutly Rubbish the thought of giving Prisoners air time on TV when they Appeal and i gave my reasons why.  Lucy Letby is appealing, should we give her air time to put the families through hell again.
No problem HB,I hear what your'e saying.

Offline snow66!

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Re: Discussion: Robert Boutflours Blood Groupings in Sound Moderator
« Reply #36 on: October 08, 2023, 02:04:PM »
I think snow was thinking along the lines of 'I'm a Prisoner... Get Me Out Of Here'!
Maybe Cutie,or possibly 'I'm an innocent man...for heavens sake get me out of this hell'

Offline snow66!

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Re: Discussion: Robert Boutflours Blood Groupings in Sound Moderator
« Reply #37 on: October 08, 2023, 02:07:PM »
The emphasis is on Sheila's found position.  Ismail's evidence supports the theory Sheila was pulled by her feet after sustaining the second instantly fatal gunshot wound.  It does not need to be 100% just beyond reasonable doubt.  Even DNA evidence is not 100%.

518. To decide whether we considered that the interests of justice required that we heard Mr Ismail's evidence, we first had regard to the evidence that it was said that he could give. From the blood staining he concluded that following the second and fatal shot Sheila Caffell was lying almost flat on her back with her head propped against a bedside cabinet. For her then to slide to be found in the position depicted in the photographs would have required the downward force to be greater than the friction of her body against the floor. In his opinion this simply was not possible as there would only be the weight of the head providing the downward force. Therefore he concluded that an additional force would have been necessary. It could not have come from Sheila Caffell since the second shot would have been instantly fatal and thus she must have been moved by someone else, for example with her legs being pulled. He also considered that the weight and the friction between her skin and her nightdress was likely to have been less than the weight and friction between the nightdress and the carpet. Therefore, he would expect movement of the body within the nightdress rather than the body and clothing sliding together across the carpet. He pointed out that the photographs demonstrated this effect at the back of the nightdress with the nightdress staying rucked up in its original position. However the front of the nightdress had not demonstrated this effect. Accordingly Mr Ismail concluded that the nightdress had been pulled down after Sheila Caffell slid into her final position. Since on the evidence, she was dead by this stage, Mr Ismail concluded that some one else had arranged her nightdress.[/b]
Paragraph 518 has reared its head again,perhaps Killing eve will resurface again too!

Offline Adam

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Re: Discussion: Robert Boutflours Blood Groupings in Sound Moderator
« Reply #38 on: October 08, 2023, 02:13:PM »
Lifting a 15 stone Nevill in Rigor Mortais is one thing.

Putting his pyjama top on and putting him over a coal scuttle/chair is another.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Roch

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Re: Discussion: Robert Boutflours Blood Groupings in Sound Moderator
« Reply #39 on: October 08, 2023, 02:16:PM »
It is interesting how supporters are happy to rely on RB's blood groups matching the flake but not Sheila's!

The test results are documented in various places for all victims along with Bamber and the relatives.  The defence also sent its own expert, Dr Patrick Lincoln, to the FSS site to verify all the findings. 

A grey hair was observed by EP apparently attached to the silencer.  Possibly pertained to Nevill.  But fair play to John Hayward at trial as he did say it probably held little forensic value.

A bit of a stretch to suggest a scratch can occur at any time given the paint found ingrained on the silencer matched the Aga paint where all the evidence suggested some sort of struggle had taken place.

Are you saying Lincoln carried out experiments on Sheila's blood to confirm it matched her known blood groups? Where did they get a sample of Sheila's blood, to confirm it was Sheila's blood.

The alleged hair is utterly irrelevant. They probably had to get rid of it because it was Bobby's or something like that (if it ever existed in the first place).

I'm not aware that paint can cause scratches on metal.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2023, 02:16:PM by Roch »

Offline Zoso

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Re: Discussion: Robert Boutflours Blood Groupings in Sound Moderator
« Reply #40 on: October 08, 2023, 02:20:PM »
Are you saying Lincoln carried out experiments on Sheila's blood to confirm it matched her known blood groups? Where did they get a sample of Sheila's blood, to confirm it was Sheila's blood.

The alleged hair is utterly irrelevant. They probably had to get rid of it because it was Bobby's or something like that (if it ever existed in the first place).

I'm not aware that paint can cause scratches on metal.

So you're suggesting that the blood given to FSS was also RB's?

Offline Hardy Boy

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Re: Discussion: Robert Boutflours Blood Groupings in Sound Moderator
« Reply #41 on: October 08, 2023, 02:46:PM »
PV's report also says Rigor Mortais in June was well established.

This negates the theory that the police shot June 3 times because she was a threat holding a shot gun. After Sheila had shot her 4 times.
Adams mentioned to Montgomery when they went straight in after the TFG had left the house, that  both the women [Sheila and June] having a complexion of Shiny almost waxed like.

it will not let me load the notes, but it's in Adams COLP notes.



Offline Roch

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Re: Discussion: Robert Boutflours Blood Groupings in Sound Moderator
« Reply #42 on: October 08, 2023, 02:47:PM »
So you're suggesting that the blood given to FSS was also RB's?

Just trying to work out what sample of Sheila's blood was provided.  I understand they had exhibits.  Just wondered which exhibit they used to obtain her blood sample.

Offline Hardy Boy

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Re: Discussion: Robert Boutflours Blood Groupings in Sound Moderator
« Reply #43 on: October 08, 2023, 02:50:PM »
No problem HB,I hear what your'e saying.
No problem Snow.

Offline Zoso

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Re: Discussion: Robert Boutflours Blood Groupings in Sound Moderator
« Reply #44 on: October 08, 2023, 07:17:PM »
Just trying to work out what sample of Sheila's blood was provided.  I understand they had exhibits.  Just wondered which exhibit they used to obtain her blood sample.

They had three samples of her blood.