The Bedroom telephone.

[ILB]

There was no telephone in the master bedroom? I believe the engineer confirmed this?

If Jeremy Bamber was planning to end Nevill in the bedroom then. If he killed him there he would have had to have dragged him downstairs ?

[Adam]

There was no telephone in the master bedroom? I believe the engineer confirmed this?

If Jeremy Bamber was planning to end Nevill in the bedroom then. If he killed him there he would have had to have dragged him downstairs ?

Or put the working bedroom phone which was in the kitchen, in the bedroom.

[Steve_uk]

There was no telephone in the master bedroom? I believe the engineer confirmed this?

If Jeremy Bamber was planning to end Nevill in the bedroom then. If he killed him there he would have had to have dragged him downstairs ?

I thought Mr. Pike took away Nevill's brick-shaped mobile telephone. As Adam says, once the lifeline had been removed in the master bedroom Jeremy either had to force Nevill into the kitchen or replace the bedroom telephone post-murders from whence it came.

[ILB]

I thought Mr. Pike took away Nevill's brick-shaped mobile telephone. As Adam says, once the lifeline had been removed in the master bedroom Jeremy either had to force Nevill into the kitchen or replace the bedroom telephone post-murders from whence it came.

From my perspective I believe he had to force nevill into the kitchen.

If there is no bedroom phone.

He obviously if gulity rides on the nevill phonecall scenario

[Bubo bubo]

From my perspective I believe he had to force nevill into the kitchen.

If there is no bedroom phone.

He obviously if gulity rides on the nevill phonecall scenario

What about the blue upstairs office phone?

[ILB]

What about the blue upstairs office phone?

Cordless? Or dialphone,

[Bubo bubo]

Cordless? Or dialphone,

Dial phone I believe. The only cordless was removed by Mr Pike GPO engineer.

[ILB]

Dial phone I believe. The only cordless was removed by Mr Pike GPO engineer.

Do you believe Nevill phones Jeremy off this office phone?

[Bubo bubo]

Do you believe Nevill phones Jeremy off this office phone?

Most likely it would be the closest and he would not need to go down stairs in the first instance. He could have brought it to the bedroom. Though I think SC removed the phone which was in the master socket which disabled all incoming and outgoing calls. This is why the phone went dead and why JB did not get a dial tone. Once he remedied this issue NB phoned the police. JB's phone would reset after a while but even if NB had not remade the connection he would get an engaged tone because the WHF link at the exchange would not reset until it received a call ended signal which would be created by replacing the receiver on the phone in use.

[ILB]

Most likely it would be the closest and he would not need to go down stairs in the first instance. He could have brought it to the bedroom. Though I think SC removed the phone which was in the master socket which disabled all incoming and outgoing calls. This is why the phone went dead and why JB did not get a dial tone. Once he remedied this issue NB phoned the police. JB's phone would reset after a while but even if NB had not remade the connection he would get an engaged tone because the WHF link at the exchange would not reset until it received a call ended signal which would be created by replacing the receiver on the phone in use.

If Nevill phones Jeremy from the office and then the phone is disengaged. There is only two options.

1) he is attacked or shot by Shelia.

2) Shelia is attacking or shooting a family member and nevill is rushing to the family members aid, hence the sudden end of the phonecall.

The point I'm ascertaining is he was subsequently discovered in the kitchen. Which does suggest he gets into a fierce altercation.

Which means he isnt ended straight away and is beaten into submission down those stairs

[Bubo bubo]

If Nevill phones Jeremy from the office and then the phone is disengaged. There is only two options.

1) he is attacked or shot by Shelia.

2) Shelia is attacking or shooting a family member and nevill is rushing to the family members aid, hence the sudden end of the phonecall.

The point I'm ascertaining is he was subsequently discovered in the kitchen. Which does suggest he gets into a fierce altercation.

Which means he isnt ended straight away and is beaten into submission down those stairs

I agree. I believe it is 2 above. If the master socket was in the kitchen he would have to go there which means SC can go up the main stairs and shoot the twins. He remakes the connection in the kitchen then when June screams he is alerted and abandons the call he has just started with Bonnett. June may have been slightly wounded at this time or she could have managed to escape unscathed. SC shoots NB as he comes up the stairs and as he retreats back to the kitchen where she catches up with him and where she shoots and beats him to death.

I believe NB made an interrupted/disengaged call to JB and an abandoned call to the police which is why the open line existed at WHF

The point is there are many permutations of what could have unfolded and no one can know how it played out. NB and June could have both been in the kitchen and the master socket could have been in the upstairs office. What can be said is that there is an evens chance that June may have escaped the initial shooting spree or only received one or two shots. The police had no idea themselves as CAL records for the Yorkshire Post.

[ILB]

I agree. I believe it is 2 above. If the master socket was in the kitchen he would have to go there which means SC can go up the main stairs and shoot the twins. He remakes the connection in the kitchen then when June screams he is alerted and abandons the call he has just started with Bonnett. June may have been slightly wounded at this time or she could have managed to escape unscathed. SC shoots NB as he comes up the stairs and as he retreats back to the kitchen where she catches up with him and where she shoots and beats him to death.

I believe NB made an interrupted/disengaged call to JB and an abandoned call to the police which is why the open line existed at WHF

The point is there are many permutations of what could have unfolded and no one can know how it played out. NB and June could have both been in the kitchen and the master socket could have been in the upstairs office. What can be said is that there is an evens chance that June may have escaped the initial shooting spree or only received one or two shots. The police had no idea themselves as CAL records for the Yorkshire Post.

Bubo.

I'd be interested in how you believe the massacre started in reference of shelia being the gulity party.

Did she burst into the twins room first or the parents. We then have to effect the nevill phonecall to Jeremy

Both Nevill and June were in their bed attire. Shelia also. The twins were more than likely in bed even before Jeremy left for home the previous evening. Jeremy mentions he had left the rifle out loaded. If Nevill hasn't put it away.


Shelias bed doesn't appear to have been slept in. Unless Bamber made it. Which is highly unlikely in my view. So from a Shelia is gulity scenario it suggest she was awake a lot later from the household occupents.

[ILB]

The second bed in Shelias room on the duvet cover has an assortment of female make up, cosmetics etc etc.

Which does not tie into Adams " Shelias out of it guv" stance. It's obvious that her physical appearance meant a lot to her and she was taking care of herself in the proceeding days.

[Bubo bubo]

Bubo.

I'd be interested in how you believe the massacre started in reference of shelia being the gulity party.

Did she burst into the twins room first or the parents. We then have to effect the nevill phonecall to Jeremy

Both Nevill and June were in their bed attire. Shelia also. The twins were more than likely in bed even before Jeremy left for home the previous evening. Jeremy mentions he had left the rifle out loaded. If Nevill hasn't put it away.


Shelias bed doesn't appear to have been slept in. Unless Bamber made it. Which is highly unlikely in my view. So from a Shelia is gulity scenario it suggest she was awake a lot later from the household occupents.

I do not do scenarios. I prefer to work with cameos or small incidents that could have happened. As previously explained even the police could not build a complete and agreed scenario. We are dealing with a young lady most likely in a psychotic episode, so virtually anything goes. It is also possible, again as previously outlined, that there were periods where nothing much was happening by way of shooting or fighting. For example she could have decided to have a shower before continuing because she wanted to look smart. She could have been attacking NB when June went down the backstairs to the den, retrieved a shotgun and threated to let her have it and drove her away so she could tend him. There are too many possibilities to produce a workable full scenario.

Because they manipulated the crime scene including moving shell casings to fit their staged scenes it makes it even more difficult to work out what really happened. The problem the police had was that the montage they created was based on SC as the perpetrator. Their scenario does not work when you have an extra adult to be killed.

A crime scene if true should be completely discernible from cartridge cases and blood trails but there are no blood tests for any of the blood in the kitchen which have been disclosed.

Nor do we have all photographs taken by Bird and listed in his statement 03/10/85

Therefore we can only point to weaknesses in what we now see and this has been proved throughout the past 12 years where plenty of arguments have been posted and advanced on the forum about inconsistencies in the crime scene and modus operandi.

Because there is no workable scenario this alone points to crime scene manipulation.

This is why when all the doors and windows had been checked for security the police just put it down to a 'domestic' and started to close it down but ensuring in doing so they covered up the accidental shooting of June and created staged scenes for photographic purposes.

I am sorry but cannot produce a  full SC scenario

[ILB]

I do not do scenarios. I prefer to work with cameos or small incidents that could have happened. As previously explained even the police could not build a complete and agreed scenario. We are dealing with a young lady most likely in a psychotic episode, so virtually anything goes. It is also possible, again as previously outlined, that there were periods where nothing much was happening by way of shooting or fighting. For example she could have decided to have a shower before continuing because she wanted to look smart. She could have been attacking NB when June went down the backstairs to the den, retrieved a shotgun and threated to let her have it and drove her away so she could tend him. There are too many possibilities to produce a workable full scenario.

Because they manipulated the crime scene including moving shell casings to fit their staged scenes it makes it even more difficult to work out what really happened. The problem the police had was that the montage they created was based on SC as the perpetrator. Their scenario does not work when you have an extra adult to be killed.

A crime scene if true should be completely discernible from cartridge cases and blood trails but there are no blood tests for any of the blood in the kitchen which have been disclosed.

Nor do we have all photographs taken by Bird and listed in his statement 03/10/85

Therefore we can only point to weaknesses in what we now see and this has been proved throughout the past 12 years where plenty of arguments have been posted and advanced on the forum about inconsistencies in the crime scene and modus operandi.

Because there is no workable scenario this alone points to crime scene manipulation.

This is why when all the doors and windows had been checked for security the police just put it down to a 'domestic' and started to close it down but ensuring in doing so they covered up the accidental shooting of June and created staged scenes for photographic purposes.

I am sorry but cannot produce a  full SC scenario

That is no problem Bubo.

From my perspective I do feel a Shelia scenario is important. In the pure sense that the crime is narrowed down to either Jeremy Bamber or Shelia being the gulity party. Of anybody who does such a scenario it is pure guesswork and can't be substaniated. Of course we are all adding our own pure revisionsm

The Jeremy Bamber scenario of guilt is him breaking into the house. Breaking in I mean entering a window which he knew he could gain access and exit.

The reason the Shelia scenario interests me is because to follow the crime scene evidence as I go back to my earlier point. All the members of the household ( the adults ) were in their night attirem the two boys were obviously out for the count. So I am left wondering how it escalated. I think it's safe to say if Shelia is the culprit she had got herself into a state on her voilition.

The only living witness is Jeremy. Who mentions that hours prior Shelia was none commital in her responses around the kitchen table over a fostering conversation.