Author Topic: PV and his role in ballistic manipulation.  (Read 1820 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Hardy Boy

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 980
Re: PV and his role in ballistic manipulation.
« Reply #45 on: October 02, 2023, 12:42:PM »
The raid team complained about Sheila's crime scene having been interfered with after they left the scene. The images they were shown at a post incident briefing caused the problem. Obviously none of this ever got to a jury or the defence. It didn't come out until many years later.

The police opened a casefile against Sheila that they used to push through a coroner's inquest. It was also used by Kennelly to report to Bunyard and Simpson that all evidence pointed to Sheila. You don't honestly think that there was just one sheet of paper in the file saying 'my dad phoned me and said Sheila had the gun'?

We're all entitled to our opinions on MT. But when he was in his prime, as MD said 'he is able to ask sublime questions on the case'.  Mike chose to use dodgy tactics because he saw the police as doing just that. It was a big mistake - two wrongs don't make a right, as my mam used to say.
Do you mean when Sheila's hand or the rifle was moved for photo's Roch?  If they had open Mic's everyone hears what went on in the house, bit harder to hide a shooting from anyone listening in, i don't know what the system was like for recording and saving such at that time Roch, if it was a murder suicide would there be need to save this recording, it wasn't going to trial anyway or be used as evidence.  Give the Raid team credit, they said things wasn't how they saw it then. 

I think Bird was the Photographer who was there when the rifle was moved and cooke was their when the hand was moved, Bird testified to this in Court.  Cooke wanted to move the hand to get a shot of the staining on the nightdress.  I think i read that in total, 123 photo's was taken in WHF and 53 at the Morgue.


https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=7638.0;attach=44746;image

Offline Cambridgecutie

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3185
Re: PV and his role in ballistic manipulation.
« Reply #46 on: October 02, 2023, 12:46:PM »
Can you please provide a figure of how many 'corrupt' people are normally involved in MOJ's that have been discovered so far? Is there an average figure that could give use a guide?

How many 'corrupt' individuals have been charged and found guilty?
Patrick O'Connor, Barrister, Doughty Street Chambers: "It will have to be a slam dunk.  It will have to be something of a blockbuster piece of evidence to have a chance".

Offline Hardy Boy

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 980
Re: PV and his role in ballistic manipulation.
« Reply #47 on: October 02, 2023, 12:46:PM »
Some post. Why wait all this time to reveal this damming evidence and why when she or other members of the family could have let him in did he have to climb through a window. Seems to me he was spinning you an story, pulling your leg. This was a facet of his character he had picked up from NB who used to behave in this way. He even told Julie he hired a hitman which was a tease.
He didn't climb in the window to get in, Sheila let him in, he only climbed out the window to get out.  He'd been working on it all week how to close the window so it looked shut.

Offline Cambridgecutie

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3185
Re: PV and his role in ballistic manipulation.
« Reply #48 on: October 02, 2023, 12:48:PM »
Squash in prison?

Butternut squash.  It counts as part of their 5 a day which the prison service is duty bound to provide.  And its been built into ECHR legislation.   :)
Patrick O'Connor, Barrister, Doughty Street Chambers: "It will have to be a slam dunk.  It will have to be something of a blockbuster piece of evidence to have a chance".

Offline Hardy Boy

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 980
Re: PV and his role in ballistic manipulation.
« Reply #49 on: October 02, 2023, 12:50:PM »
Butternut squash.  It counts as part of their 5 a day which the prison service is duty bound to provide.  And its been built into ECHR legislation.   :)
Ha Ha along with their Game Boy.

Offline Cambridgecutie

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3185
Re: PV and his role in ballistic manipulation.
« Reply #50 on: October 02, 2023, 12:58:PM »
I'm not sure he's as well thought of by other experts, in comparison to how you view him.

BTW, he is no longer listed as an HO pathologist.  I expect he's getting on a bit now.

I don't have any particular view on him but I can see no reason to think he was in any way involved in any sort of wrongdoing in Bamber's case or he was incompetent. 

Bamber's conviction is not in any way based on the pathological evidence.  How could it be when Vanezis did not find anything during pm's or afterwards to contradict the prevailing murder/suicide theory?

Vanezis has carried out 000's of pm's in the UK and all over the world.  He will be used to having his court testimony robustly challenged by the defence and prosecution.  Not a whiff of anything untoward over a career spanning decades and yet some here are quite happy to make all sorts of unsubstantiated claims which frankly says more about them than Vanezis.

Isn't part of your role as a mod to rein in the excess?
Patrick O'Connor, Barrister, Doughty Street Chambers: "It will have to be a slam dunk.  It will have to be something of a blockbuster piece of evidence to have a chance".

Offline Cambridgecutie

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3185
Re: PV and his role in ballistic manipulation.
« Reply #51 on: October 02, 2023, 12:59:PM »
Ha Ha along with their Game Boy.

 ;)
Patrick O'Connor, Barrister, Doughty Street Chambers: "It will have to be a slam dunk.  It will have to be something of a blockbuster piece of evidence to have a chance".

Offline Cambridgecutie

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3185
Re: PV and his role in ballistic manipulation.
« Reply #52 on: October 02, 2023, 01:04:PM »
Well it's just you seem to believe there there is only one or two corrupt people in previous MOJ's.

Why dont you start by studying Drake's MOJ's and Vanezis' MOJ.  Seems a good starting point. Come back and tell us how many people were involved.

Which MOJ's involve Vanezis where the pathological evidence was critical to the outcome?
Patrick O'Connor, Barrister, Doughty Street Chambers: "It will have to be a slam dunk.  It will have to be something of a blockbuster piece of evidence to have a chance".

Offline Adam

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 37164
Re: PV and his role in ballistic manipulation.
« Reply #53 on: October 02, 2023, 01:07:PM »
He didn't climb in the window to get in, Sheila let him in, he only climbed out the window to get out.  He'd been working on it all week how to close the window so it looked shut.

Is this a wind up?
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Bubo bubo

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2370
Re: PV and his role in ballistic manipulation.
« Reply #54 on: October 02, 2023, 01:09:PM »
I don't have any particular view on him but I can see no reason to think he was in any way involved in any sort of wrongdoing in Bamber's case or he was incompetent. 

Bamber's conviction is not in any way based on the pathological evidence.  How could it be when Vanezis did not find anything during pm's or afterwards to contradict the prevailing murder/suicide theory?

Vanezis has carried out 000's of pm's in the UK and all over the world.  He will be used to having his court testimony robustly challenged by the defence and prosecution.  Not a whiff of anything untoward over a career spanning decades and yet some here are quite happy to make all sorts of unsubstantiated claims which frankly says more about them than Vanezis.

Isn't part of your role as a mod to rein in the excess?

Of course he didn't he was involved in the cover-up not the framing

Then please explain the issue related to PV25/PV26 set out in my post. Is that what you mean by incompetence. Strange that he makes only one mistake on a crucial wound.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2023, 01:10:PM by Bubo bubo »

Offline Zoso

  • Administrator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1635
Re: PV and his role in ballistic manipulation.
« Reply #55 on: October 02, 2023, 01:15:PM »
I'm seriously trying to think of someone who wasn't involved in the manipulation and framing of Bamber, it doesn't matter who enters the scene, they're corrupt and litigated, well other than "Taff"  Doesn't matter how the debate goes, it ends with "they was corrupt"  the flat mates, the police, the raid team, the Patholigist, the Lab technicians, the cleaner all corrupt and have to be careful now.     

Imagine how much the police force would save on pensions if they all get convicted?

Offline Jane

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 32497
Re: PV and his role in ballistic manipulation.
« Reply #56 on: October 02, 2023, 01:42:PM »
I was in Full Sutton with Bamber, we used to play Squash together and he used to laugh how he duped the police, he said he only appeals because it's his only chance of getting out of Jail.  He told me Sheila was in on it, she wanted to end her life but spare the twins, so he said he shot his mum and Dad and Sheila layed down to be shot, she didn't do it right so i had to shoot her a second time.  In the end i shot the twins so i could have everything to myself.


'Smore believable that various of the police shooting people then having to shoot them again to cover up shooting them!

Offline Roch

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16111
Re: PV and his role in ballistic manipulation.
« Reply #57 on: October 02, 2023, 01:58:PM »
Exactly who is saying who is involved?

Relatives are not gonna give any helpful testimony towards Jeremy. They will go with what they're advised to say, in order to achieve conviction. And likewise, what they need to avoid saying.

Mugford will have to follow along similar lines.

PV has to provide testimony that omits the wounds. My hunch is that he concentrated on gunshot wounds. Then later on, this inadvertently helped EP when they went for Bamber.  Or it could be that the paperwork which got burgled from Taff's home had the original report in that did mention wounds etc.

Ainsley, Miller, S Jones, Cook up to their necks in it.

Prosecution barister rehearses what needs to be discussed and in a way which omits the full truth. For example, the wilful and deliberate omission of RB blood match.

Personally I don't support the call from Nevill. However, the suggestion that somebody was innocently trying to trace over or rewrite the log because they didn't have a photocopier is silly.

How many people were involved on n fitting up Winston Silcot or the Bridgewater 4?

This over-simplification of the term 'corrupt' doesn't fool me. You don't have to be corrupt to have some involvement in a wrongful conviction. You can be ignorant or not take much of an interest, or not challenge something that doesn't seem right.

Offline Zoso

  • Administrator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1635
Re: PV and his role in ballistic manipulation.
« Reply #58 on: October 02, 2023, 02:08:PM »
Exactly who is saying who is involved?

Relatives are not gonna give any helpful testimony towards Jeremy. They will go with what they're advised to say, in order to achieve conviction. And likewise, what they need to avoid saying.

Mugford will have to follow along similar lines.

PV has to provide testimony that omits the wounds. My hunch is that he concentrated on gunshot wounds. Then later on, this inadvertently helped EP when they went for Bamber.  Or it could be that the paperwork which got burgled from Taff's home had the original report in that did mention wounds etc.

Ainsley, Miller, S Jones, Cook up to their necks in it.

Prosecution barister rehearses what needs to be discussed and in a way which omits the full truth. For example, the wilful and deliberate omission of RB blood match.

Personally I don't support the call from Nevill. However, the suggestion that somebody was innocently trying to trace over or rewrite the log because they didn't have a photocopier is silly.

How many people were involved on n fitting up Winston Silcot or the Bridgewater 4?

This over-simplification of the term 'corrupt' doesn't fool me. You don't have to be corrupt to have some involvement in a wrongful conviction. You can be ignorant or not take much of an interest, or not challenge something that doesn't seem right.

Those cases are completely different. In the Bamber case, they already had the perfect perpetrator in Sheila, they didn't need to fit ay other person up. Why would the relatives want to fit up a young man like Bamber who had lost his family. The only reason they would point a finger at him, is if they believed he'd done it and if they thought that, they had EVEREY right to pursue it. You keep talking about the logs, I fail to see how that can be sinister when they STILL HAVE the ORIGINAL!

Offline Jane

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 32497
Re: PV and his role in ballistic manipulation.
« Reply #59 on: October 02, 2023, 02:21:PM »
Exactly who is saying who is involved?

Relatives are not gonna give any helpful testimony towards Jeremy. They will go with what they're advised to say, in order to achieve conviction. And likewise, what they need to avoid saying.

Mugford will have to follow along similar lines.

PV has to provide testimony that omits the wounds. My hunch is that he concentrated on gunshot wounds. Then later on, this inadvertently helped EP when they went for Bamber.  Or it could be that the paperwork which got burgled from Taff's home had the original report in that did mention wounds etc.

Ainsley, Miller, S Jones, Cook up to their necks in it.

Prosecution barister rehearses what needs to be discussed and in a way which omits the full truth. For example, the wilful and deliberate omission of RB blood match.

Personally I don't support the call from Nevill. However, the suggestion that somebody was innocently trying to trace over or rewrite the log because they didn't have a photocopier is silly.

How many people were involved on n fitting up Winston Silcot or the Bridgewater 4?

This over-simplification of the term 'corrupt' doesn't fool me. You don't have to be corrupt to have some involvement in a wrongful conviction. You can be ignorant or not take much of an interest, or not challenge something that doesn't seem right.
Quote

This over-simplification of the term 'corrupt' doesn't fool me. You don't have to be corrupt to have some involvement in a wrongful conviction. You can be ignorant or not take much of an interest, or not challenge something that doesn't seem right.

Seems to me supporters are determined to "get their man" by whatever means possible!