PV and his role in ballistic manipulation.

[Jane]

Jane I'll just take your reply as having bottled the challenge. Your current reasoning on the case seems to be on an extreme fringe.

And exactly the same, albeit polarized, may be said of your own.

[Jane]

In Court and at trial is very different what you imagine Roch, i think the gathering of evidence and availability of evidence has tightened up to what it used to be and there is more pressure on the police when questioning.  In Court, being a defendant or Victim your at the hands of the Judge and Barristers, it's the way it is and the way it will always be i'm afraid.  Things get held back from the Jury during discussion between the Prosecution and defence, everything doesn't get brought up at trial.

There does seem to be the belief, that the person in the witness box, if they happen to be RWB or JM, has all the power -ie, they never said/ told them about/said it the wrong way...... However, when it comes to JB, it changes to him not being given a chance to say/he wasn't asked about.........

[Roch]

How could statements not be rewritten? The first statements had Sheila as being the culprit, I imagine because of 'the tableau' backed up by JB's 'story' which was ultimately found not to be true.  The 'tableau' then went from organic to arranged. As for the raid teams' complaints/open mics/recordings? Much of that story came from MT! Now, if you're looking for corruption..................

The raid team's 'serious concerns' are listed in black and white. From police interviews.

People slate MT on here and only judge him for the things he did wrong. He has been left with a very one-sided legacy, which doesn't do him justice imo (just my personal opinion).

No Jane the police did not open a file solely due to JB's back story. That's erroneous wishful thinking on your part.

Open mics, read the disclosure booklet (oh, I forgot you are not interested are you).

[Jane]

The raid team's 'serious concerns' are listed in black and white. From police interviews.

People slate MT on here and only judge him for the things he did wrong. He has been left with a very one-sided legacy, which doesn't do him justice imo (just my personal opinion).

No Jane the police did not open a file in JB's back story. That's erroneous wishful thinking on your part.

Open mics, read the disclosure booklet (oh, I forgot you are not interested are you).

So the raid team had 'serious concerns'? Hardly surprising, is it? The left hand didn't know what the right hand was doing................largely thanks to JB's narrative.

I don't know what you mean about "the police did not open a file on JB's back story" so it can't be said that it's "erroneous wishful thinking on your part".

It's MT's own narratives which have earned him a one sided legacy. Time was when I believe he was a great support to JB. His perceived importance of his status in JB's life may have got the better of him.

[Roch]

So the raid team had 'serious concerns'? Hardly surprising, is it? The left hand didn't know what the right hand was doing................largely thanks to JB's narrative.

I don't know what you mean about "the police did not open a file on JB's back story" so it can't be said that it's "erroneous wishful thinking on your part".

It's MT's own narratives which have earned him a one sided legacy. Time was when I believe he was a great support to JB. His perceived importance of his status in JB's life may have got the better of him.

The raid team complained about Sheila's crime scene having been interfered with after they left the scene. The images they were shown at a post incident briefing caused the problem. Obviously none of this ever got to a jury or the defence. It didn't come out until many years later.

The police opened a casefile against Sheila that they used to push through a coroner's inquest. It was also used by Kennelly to report to Bunyard and Simpson that all evidence pointed to Sheila. You don't honestly think that there was just one sheet of paper in the file saying 'my dad phoned me and said Sheila had the gun'?

We're all entitled to our opinions on MT. But when he was in his prime, as MD said 'he is able to ask sublime questions on the case'.  Mike chose to use dodgy tactics because he saw the police as doing just that. It was a big mistake - two wrongs don't make a right, as my mam used to say.

[Jane]

The raid team complained about Sheila's crime scene having been interfered with after they left the scene. The images they were shown at a post incident briefing caused the problem. Obviously none of this ever got to a jury or the defence. It didn't come out until many years later.

The police opened a casefile against Sheila that they used to push through a coroner's inquest. It was also used by Kennelly to report to Bunyard and Simpson that all evidence pointed to Sheila. You don't honestly think that there was just one sheet of paper in the file saying 'my dad phoned me and said Sheila had the gun'?

We're all entitled to our opinions on MT. But when he was in his prime, as MD said 'he is able to ask sublime questions on the case'.  Mike chose to use dodgy tactics because he saw the police as doing just that. It was a big mistake - two wrongs don't make a right, as my mam used to say.

It's not impossible that bodies were moved after the raid team left, but other than not being protocol, I'm not certain how such exonerates JB.

I have no idea how many sheets of paper would have been used in the file which claimed NB phoned JB to say Sheila had gone mad and had the gun, but I understand that the claim would have gone a long way to laying the blame at Sheila's door.

Your mam was totally correct. Two wrongs don't make a right............and it usually follows that once a lie is told, it necessitates that others follow.

[Bubo bubo]

It's not impossible that bodies were moved after the raid team left, but other than not being protocol, I'm not certain how such exonerates JB.

I have no idea how many sheets of paper would have been used in the file which claimed NB phoned JB to say Sheila had gone mad and had the gun, but I understand that the claim would have gone a long way to laying the blame at Sheila's door.

Your mam was totally correct. Two wrongs don't make a right............and it usually follows that once a lie is told, it necessitates that others follow.

That truth can also be applied to EP. They have been perpetuating lies for 37 years.

[Roch]

That truth can also be applied to EP. They have been perpetuating lies for 37 years.

They act in an extremely arrogant manner, as a defence mechanism. It's almost taunting.  I've met some great police officers in my line of work, but there needs to be sea change regarding wrongful convictions. The smug arrogance, stonewalling, and withholding of evidence need to lead to extreme consequences for those forces. It needs to be rooted out. They are prepared to try and root out sexual deviants but they are not prepared to open up these types of cans of worms. It's a step too far for them. Well it needs to be taken out of their hands. There needs to be sackings and losses of pension rights among the police for wrongful convictions. They should be offered an amnesty first - as a final chance to come clean. After that they should be shredded and put under special measures.

[Jane]

They act in an extremely arrogant manner, as a defence mechanism. It's almost taunting.  I've met some great police officers in my line of work, but there needs to be sea change regarding wrongful convictions. The smug arrogance, stonewalling, and withholding of evidence need to lead to extreme consequences for those forces. It needs to be rooted out. They are prepared to try and root out sexual deviants but they are not prepared to open up these types of cans of worms. It's a step too far for them. Well it needs to be taken out of their hands. There needs to be sackings and losses of pension rights among the police for wrongful convictions. They should be offered an amnesty first - as a final chance to come clean. After that they should be shredded and put under special measures.

In principal, I agree. Time was when we sat either side of the middle, now we both seem to have moved to outer reaches, both having become more virulent in our beliefs.

I've never hidden from the fact of having a family member in the police, and a very close friend who was prominent in the JB case. Whilst I would have trusted both with my life, I've been introduced to one or two I wouldn't have trusted to tell me the right time if I asked. We must not tar everyone with the same brush, but it becomes perfectly clear that it's being implied that policemen who believed JB guilty must be corrupt/capable of corruption. It may be as plain on the noses on the faces of supporters that JB is innocent, but there are many more, with well formed noses, who genuinely believe he's where he belongs.

[ILB]

Just out of interest is Mark Williams Thomas a member on this site?

[Hardy Boy]

No! But I'm not going down the road of believing if it happened in other cases, it had to have happened in JB's so we'll carry on pointing fingers until we find something. If we can find someone who has an axe to grind and is willing to stick the knife in, so much the better, eh?

I was in Full Sutton with Bamber, we used to play Squash together and he used to laugh how he duped the police, he said he only appeals because it's his only chance of getting out of Jail.  He told me Sheila was in on it, she wanted to end her life but spare the twins, so he said he shot his mum and Dad and Sheila layed down to be shot, she didn't do it right so i had to shoot her a second time.  In the end i shot the twins so i could have everything to myself. 

[Hardy Boy]

I was in Full Sutton with Bamber, we used to play Squash together and he used to laugh how he duped the police, he said he only appeals because it's his only chance of getting out of Jail.  He told me Sheila was in on it, she wanted to end her life but spare the twins, so he said he shot his mum and Dad and Sheila layed down to be shot, she didn't do it right so i had to shoot her a second time.  In the end i shot the twins so i could have everything to myself.

Anyone prove me wrong?

[Bubo bubo]

I was in Full Sutton with Bamber, we used to play Squash together and he used to laugh how he duped the police, he said he only appeals because it's his only chance of getting out of Jail.  He told me Sheila was in on it, she wanted to end her life but spare the twins, so he said he shot his mum and Dad and Sheila layed down to be shot, she didn't do it right so i had to shoot her a second time.  In the end i shot the twins so i could have everything to myself.

Some post. Why wait all this time to reveal this damming evidence and why when she or other members of the family could have let him in did he have to climb through a window. Seems to me he was spinning you an story, pulling your leg. This was a facet of his character he had picked up from NB who used to behave in this way. He even told Julie he hired a hitman which was a tease.

[Adam]

I was in Full Sutton with Bamber, we used to play Squash together and he used to laugh how he duped the police, he said he only appeals because it's his only chance of getting out of Jail.  He told me Sheila was in on it, she wanted to end her life but spare the twins, so he said he shot his mum and Dad and Sheila layed down to be shot, she didn't do it right so i had to shoot her a second time.  In the end i shot the twins so i could have everything to myself.

Wow.

[Adam]

Squash in prison?