The beauty of THREE marks for supporters

[snow66!]

I'm sure the CCRC commissioners are trying it as we post 

Yes,joking appart Cutie,I am sure they are.

[killingeve]

I hear what your saying Jane,but it simply doesn't stand up.
There were very few sources of heat at the WHF,so JB or anyone else mentioning the Aga as a possible source of the burne to Nevill would have caused no suspicion whatsoever, ZERO! Not in 1985 nor any time since,so why o why would Bamber keep quiet about something that could work in his favour ie,that the police moved Nevill? Ridiculous.

Its the same as the Bible,if guilty he smearsd it with bloody fingerprints,left a note in it and opened it at a specific place,yet when his defence team were lied to and told  that the Bible had been destroyed before the trial JB made no fuss about this.Doesn't logic tell us that JB had no idea of the importance of the Bible and didn't make a fuss about its alleged destruction?
Truthfully,in all likelyhood if the Bible and its evidence had been given to the defence instead of being hidden away it would have had a dramatic effect on the outcome at trial.

So the bottom line for me is,if the Aga burns are accepted by the CCRC Bamber is innocent whether the police moved Nevill or not.

Let me explain,if Nevill lay against the Aga unconcious for several minutes or hours then got up and was shot to death on the chair/scuttle this points to an innocent Bamber because obviously JB would not waste time waiting hours for the marks to form.He would have killed everyone as quick as possible and fled the scene.Only Sheila fits into this scenario as she was in the house all night.

Now,if JB killed Nevill and left him against the Aga and fled,this means that the police moved Nevill after entry, and that takes us back to the argument of keeping quiet about the source of the marks for 37 years and the fact that the police must have moved Nevill.,both facts that JB must have been aware of all these years,yet like the Bible did not use the knowledge to his advantage.Ridiculous,as I say.

Now I know that very few members give the marks much importance,but if they are accepted I think the prosecution case against JB is severely weakened.The marks are bad,bad news that only point to a guilty Sheila,they scream out that Bamber is innocent.

So it doesn't really matter if the police moved Bamber or not,nor who's scanario is nearest to the truth,if the Aga made the marks Bamber must logically be innocent,and I think a re-trial would convince a jury of this.

As fer users burning their neck on an Aga Jane,I would imagine this happens fairly regularly amongst those who take a bucket and snuggle up to them!

You seem oblivious that both sides agree on certain facts, as testified at trial, and that your scenarios do not fit with these facts.

[Hardy Boy]

Yes,thats it HB,except I am not quite sure what you mean by overpowered Nevill?
This was the very start of things,Sheila and Nevill may have ended up arguing before she flew into a rage and lashed out unexpectedly at Nevill before he could defend himself,no overpowering as such!

Oh right my mistake, she just gave him one or two and she took no blows herself,  knocked him out, he then burnt his back on the AGA while he was knocked out cold, came around, he then went upstairs and she shot him four times, he ran down stairs and she shot him four times again and he landed with his head in the Coal scuttle?  Is this your theory Snow, or is it Boyce's and the CT's as well, because you say you and a few others?

[snow66!]

You seem oblivious that both sides agree on certain facts, as testified at trial, and that your scenarios do not fit with these facts.

Can you expand a little on that Cutie?
Do not fit with the facts?

[snow66!]

Oh right my mistake, she just gave him one or two and she took no blows herself,  knocked him out, he then burnt his back on the AGA while he was knocked out cold, came around, he then went upstairs and she shot him four times, he ran down stairs and she shot him four times again and he landed with his head in the Coal scuttle?  Is this your theory Snow, or is it Boyce's and the CT's as well, because you say you and a few others?

No,this theory has nothing to do with Boyce or the CT HB,they argue that the police moved Nevill from the Aga upon entry and proped him up on the chair/scuttle.

The others I reffer to are Rob and Roch,although Rob thinks Nevill was toppled to the floor from behind the kitchen door when the police entered and they duly proped him up on the chair scuttle.I tend to disagree with this because of the position needed to inflict the final head shots and because of the blood trails. But it is quite possible and would explain the precarious position of Nevill.
Cutie seems to be the only other member who thinks Nevill slumped onto the chair/scuttle on his own accord,but obviously thinks the rest of the scenario comes from fantasy land.

So,yes this is bacically a scenario made up by Rob,Roch and myself,whether any other members give it any credence I do not know HB,but it has nothing to do with Boyce or the CT,indeed they have not released a detailed scenario involving the Aga burns as far as I know.They are simply concentrating on the police changing the crime scene by allegedly moving Nevill as far as I can tell,this seems to be the route they are going down.

[snow66!]

The pathologist said Nevill's found position (as per soc images) was consistent with rm.  At what point do you believe Nevill was lying against the Aga?

Right from the kick off Cutie,when he regained conciousness he made the phone call/s before his mouth was injured.Then headed upstairs to face a hail of bullets that sent him back to the kitchen.

[Zoso]

I always thought the hottest part of the AGA was at the top of the oven Jane?  Imagine inventing a cooker that burns you evertime you open the frigging door?

Yes, but only if you lay against it was several hours - which apparently also cures concussion - who would have thought!!

[Adam]

After several months I am starting to piece together Snow's aga scenario -

Sheila wakes Nevill. But not June and the twins.

Nevill goes downstairs bare footed and topless.

Nevill and Sheila argue. Sheila picks up a rifle for shooting rabbits. Nevill does not instantly reclaim this.

Sheila catches Nevill by surprise with some head blows.

Nevill lays unconcious against a cold aga door for several hours.

Nevill wakes and decides not to go upstairs 

He starts ringing Bamber's AM from the kitchen.  He eventually answers & Nevill says 11 words before putting the phone down.

Nevill does not ring Chelmsford Police.

Nevill eventually goes upstairs and puts his pyjama top on.

Sheila is upstairs and still has the rifle. She shoots him 4 times from inches and feet away.

Sheila chases Nevill downstairs where they fight. Sheila overpowers Nevill & gives him 40+ wounds. 

Nevill falls head first into the coal scuttle. He does not knock it over or sustain related head injuries from doing this.

Sheila shoots him 4 more times.

Nevill is now in the perfect position to have his back burnt. But this has already happened from laying against a cold aga door for several hours.

[Hardy Boy]

No,this theory has nothing to do with Boyce or the CT HB,they argue that the police moved Nevill from the Aga upon entry and proped him up on the chair/scuttle.

The others I reffer to are Rob and Roch,although Rob thinks Nevill was toppled to the floor from behind the kitchen door when the police entered and they duly proped him up on the chair scuttle.I tend to disagree with this because of the position needed to inflict the final head shots and because of the blood trails. But it is quite possible and would explain the precarious position of Nevill.
Cutie seems to be the only other member who thinks Nevill slumped onto the chair/scuttle on his own accord,but obviously thinks the rest of the scenario comes from fantasy land.

So,yes this is bacically a scenario made up by Rob,Roch and myself,whether any other members give it any credence I do not know HB,but it has nothing to do with Boyce or the CT,indeed they have not released a detailed scenario involving the Aga burns as far as I know.They are simply concentrating on the police changing the crime scene by allegedly moving Nevill as far as I can tell,this seems to be the route they are going down.

Thanks Snow, I'm more inclined to think they were inflicted now and i know i mentioned the poker before, but iv'e since found out that there was a poker alongside the AGA as well as in the cupboard, makes sense really to have the poker on hand at the side of a burner?

In the Dickerson report it states,  there was also a Poker alongside of the AGA in the Kitchen shown in Potogragh 12?

[Zoso]

No,this theory has nothing to do with Boyce or the CT HB,they argue that the police moved Nevill from the Aga upon entry and proped him up on the chair/scuttle.

The others I reffer to are Rob and Roch,although Rob thinks Nevill was toppled to the floor from behind the kitchen door when the police entered and they duly proped him up on the chair scuttle.I tend to disagree with this because of the position needed to inflict the final head shots and because of the blood trails. But it is quite possible and would explain the precarious position of Nevill.
Cutie seems to be the only other member who thinks Nevill slumped onto the chair/scuttle on his own accord,but obviously thinks the rest of the scenario comes from fantasy land.

So,yes this is bacically a scenario made up by Rob,Roch and myself,whether any other members give it any credence I do not know HB,but it has nothing to do with Boyce or the CT,indeed they have not released a detailed scenario involving the Aga burns as far as I know.They are simply concentrating on the police changing the crime scene by allegedly moving Nevill as far as I can tell,this seems to be the route they are going down.

There is no way he was 'toppled'.

[Roch]

There is no way he was 'toppled'.

Then he must have toppled himself. 

[killingeve]

No,this theory has nothing to do with Boyce or the CT HB,they argue that the police moved Nevill from the Aga upon entry and proped him up on the chair/scuttle.

Both pathologists agree Nevill's found position, as depicted in soc images. was consistent with rm.  Had he been lying along the Aga with the police moving him this would not be so. 

[killingeve]

No,this theory has nothing to do with Boyce or the CT HB,they argue that the police moved Nevill from the Aga upon entry and proped him up on the chair/scuttle.

The others I reffer to are Rob and Roch,although Rob thinks Nevill was toppled to the floor from behind the kitchen door when the police entered and they duly proped him up on the chair scuttle.I tend to disagree with this because of the position needed to inflict the final head shots and because of the blood trails. But it is quite possible and would explain the precarious position of Nevill.
Cutie seems to be the only other member who thinks Nevill slumped onto the chair/scuttle on his own accord,but obviously thinks the rest of the scenario comes from fantasy land.

So,yes this is bacically a scenario made up by Rob,Roch and myself,whether any other members give it any credence I do not know HB,but it has nothing to do with Boyce or the CT,indeed they have not released a detailed scenario involving the Aga burns as far as I know.They are simply concentrating on the police changing the crime scene by allegedly moving Nevill as far as I can tell,this seems to be the route they are going down.

The average height of a UK man is 5' 9".  Nevill at 6' 4" was considerably taller than average.  If you consider the photo of Nevill and June with their respective dogs at their feet you will also appreciate he had very long legs.  So no I do not think it suprising that a man of his statue fell across the chair as depicted in soc images.  As far as I am aware the prosecution case against Bamber does not involve him re-staging Nevill. 

[ILB]

The average height of a UK man is 5' 9".  Nevill at 6' 4" was considerably taller than average.  If you consider the photo of Nevill and June with their respective dogs at their feet you will also appreciate he had very long legs.  So no I do not think it suprising that a man of his statue fell across the chair as depicted in soc images.  As far as I am aware the prosecution case against Bamber does not involve him re-staging Nevill.

He doesn't fall across the chair though does he? He is literally perched on the chair ( turned on its side ) in a up right slouching position with his face literally planted in the coal scuttle

[killingeve]

He doesn't fall across the chair though does he? He is literally perched on the chair ( turned on its side ) in a up right slouching position with his face literally planted in the coal scuttle

What's remarkable about it?

Neither the police, prosecution or defence have ever contested Nevill's found position.