The beauty of THREE marks for supporters

[snow66!]

Doesn't anyone see,that if Bamber did kill Nevill and leave him by the Aga,then OBVIOUSLY he would have known that the police moved Nevill.so why wait 37 years before suggesting to Boyce that the Aga may have made the marks? Why not suggest the Aga made them before his trial and therefore prove that the police moved Nevill? He would most likely have been aquitted even if guilty.

The fact that JB did not mention the Aga as the possible source of the marks for all these years MUST surely prove that JB did NOT know what made the marks and did not kill Nevill and leave him against the Aga,hence if the Aga DID make the marks the only one who knew that is dead-Sheila.

So it isn't just the Aga marks for me that point to JBs innocence,its the sequence of events that has unfolded in the last 38 years.
So for me,if the Aga burns are accepted,surely logic tells us that JB must surely be innocent.

[ILB]

It is not me trying to convince you. It is the evidence.

Bamber has appealed in 89 & 2002. CCRC submissions in 2012 & 2021.

The details are in each of these.

He has one full appeal in 2002

In 1989 leave was refused be a single judge prior to a COA full hearing

[Zoso]

Par for the course for Bamber supporters. We are the underdogs. It's like Sunderland Vs Brazil. They have all the resources, hidden documents, media assistance, power etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyvZlsBQr-c 

[Hardy Boy]

The thing is HB, if the Aga did make the marks then this is in Bambers favour,however if it had been accepted long ago that the rifle barrel made the marks it still would not have proven who was holding the rifle at the time,hence the findings would have favoured no one.

Nevill lying against the Aga has to favour Bamber unless you believe that the police moved Nevill upon entry.Even then the police would have some explaining to do.

And one other thing,if Bamber killed Nevill and left him lying against the Aga he would have known what made the marks,and it goes without saying that he must have known that the rifle did not make the marks.So why waste precious time and money trying to prove that the rifle DID make the marks?
Senseless surely.

I have always thought that its the things that JB hasn't known about or brought up that points to his innocence.

Proving that the Aga made those marks would be near on impossible from the photo's Snow, especially when you have had previous experts all say different things.  Vanezis was unsure, Knight didn't even think they was Burn marks he thought they was Bruises and the Arizona test expert has already given his opinion that they was caused by the rifle, if anything i thought this would have carried more weight for Jeremy with the CCRC, especially saying that they was caused without the silencer attached. i think the Dickinson report leans more to and attribute's the marks to a poker.?   

[Hardy Boy]

As for this trumping the silencer evidence or Sheila's hands being clean,well it has to,the blood was inconclusive and Sheila washing her hands is no big deal whatsoever.The bottom line is,if the Aga burns prove that JB could not have been present at WHF when the  shootings occurred then the silencer evidence is erroneous,simple as that!

For Sheila to be the Killer she must have pre planned what she was going to do, first she had to find the silencer and attach it to the rifle [because Jeremy said he went to shoot Rabbits without it being  on the rifle] we can only assume this was in the cupboard according to Jeremy, she had to kill everyone possibly with the silencer fitted, because it's possible that there was mixture of June's and Neville's blood also inside the silencer?  Even, Even if Sheila's blood wasn't in the silencer, she then had to put the silencer back in the cupboard in a box and wash her hands before commiting suicide?

[Jane]

Doesn't anyone see,that if Bamber did kill Nevilland leave him by the Aga,then OBVIOUSLY he would have known that the police moved Nevill.so why wait 37 years before suggesting to Boyce that the Aga may have made the marks? Why not suggest the Aga made them before his trial and therefore prove that the police moved Nevill? He would most likely have been aquitted even if guilty.

The fact that JB did not mention the Aga as the possible source of the marks for all these years MUST surely prove that JB did NOT know what made the marks and did not kill Nevill and leave him against the Aga,hence if the Aga DID make the marks the only one who knew that is dead-Sheila.

So it isn't just the Aga marks for me that point to JBs innocence,its the sequence of events that has unfolded in the last 38 years.
So for me,if the Aga burns are accepted,surely logic tells us that JB must surely be innocent.

Snow, have you never heard of reverse psychology? ie, JB didn't mention.................because having such knowledge would have put him closer to being the culprit. Not that I believe the AGA was the cause of NB's marks, but let's be honest, how many AGA users/owns do you know who've received burns to their necks/backs through contact with their appliance?

[Jane]

It seems that Boyce's pig flesh experiment (2011) was turned down by the High Court (2013). It's also said that JB has all the information on what was dismissed, and why, but refuses to release them.

[killingeve]

Yes,i am referring to the 'Aga' marks again,and what I mean is, that the fact that there are three of them makes it easier to match them to the source.I will also try and point out again why I believe the marks are very important.I am aware that most members see the marks as irrelevent,even supporters,nevertheless I will have another go at trying to point out why I think they would have been a game changer if they had been presented at trial and how they could be now.

Anyway,as I see it,proving that the Aga made the marks shouldn't cause much problem,as I said the fact that there are three marks limits the available sources of heat at WHF capable of causing the marks that night.One mark,yes,quite impossible to tie to any specific object,even two would be tricky.But three burns,which match the shape and spacing within millimetres of an image taken on pig skin from the Aga handles? The chances that another source of heat could have made similar marks must surely be astronomical!
As I say,that is the beauty of THREE marks,and not just marks,BURN MARKS.Think about it,Yvonne Hartley quite rightly pointed out that there were very few, if any,other sources of heat anywhere else in the WHF.And even if there were,just how would they manage to make contact with Nevills neck? Either Nevill lay against a heat source or someone held a hot object against him,he definately didn't take something and brand himself.
And even if someone did heat an object and burn Nevill,why would the burns be the same spacings as the image taken from the Aga on the pig skin?
Also,it has been proven by Boyce that if you place someone on their side in front of an Aga their neck is in line with the hot Aga knobs.
So,sorry to be so boring,but I believe that most reasonable people will conclude that the Aga cooker was indeed the cause of the marks on Nevills back.

Yet the likes of Jane continues to reject the Aga evidence by putting her fingers in her ears and uttering La,La,La,rather than facing the truth. [Sorry Jane,but tit for tat  ].

Now,for those of you who may have accepted that the Aga made the marks,let us look at what this could mean.What if the jury had known that the Aga made the marks,and that they took several minutes or maybe even hours to form,surely this would have had a profound effect on whether it was safe to convict Bamber?

And just how could Justice Drake have dismissed the burns to Nevill? He couldn't!
Just think it through and you may see the significance that the three little marks may have had at JBs trial.
Nevill lying against the Aga for any length of time doesn't fit well with a JB scenario,and we all know it.
The police scenario sent to the DPP has JB chasing JB to the kitchen then shooting him while slumped over the scuttle,if the Aga burns are accepted how are they going to fit in with Nevill lying against the Aga for some time? Not easy,just doesn't work,does it?
No,what the CCRC must,and have to do,is realise that the Aga burns is new evidence and decide the impact they would have had on the jury in 1986.They will also have to supply a new credible JB scenario around the marks,and if they continue to claim that the police did not move Nevill upon entry then for me a credible scenario is nigh on impossible.

So,to round things up,the police will either have to produce a credible scenario to the CCRC regarding the marks or admit they lied at trial by the fact that they moved Nevill upon entry.

As for this trumping the silencer evidence or Sheila's hands being clean,well it has to,the blood was inconclusive and Sheila washing her hands is no big deal whatsoever.The bottom line is,if the Aga burns prove that JB could not have been present at WHF when the  shootings occurred then the silencer evidence is erroneous,simple as that!

The pathologist said Nevill's found position (as per soc images) was consistent with rm.  At what point do you believe Nevill was lying against the Aga?

[Bubo bubo]

Snow, have you never heard of reverse psychology? ie, JB didn't mention.................because having such knowledge would have put him closer to being the culprit. Not that I believe the AGA was the cause of NB's marks, but let's be honest, how many AGA users/owns do you know who've received burns to their necks/backs through contact with their appliance?

So speaks Mystic Jane mind reader extraordinaire.

[Bubo bubo]

Doesn't anyone see,that if Bamber did kill Nevill and leave him by the Aga,then OBVIOUSLY he would have known that the police moved Nevill.so why wait 37 years before suggesting to Boyce that the Aga may have made the marks? Why not suggest the Aga made them before his trial and therefore prove that the police moved Nevill? He would most likely have been aquitted even if guilty.

The fact that JB did not mention the Aga as the possible source of the marks for all these years MUST surely prove that JB did NOT know what made the marks and did not kill Nevill and leave him against the Aga,hence if the Aga DID make the marks the only one who knew that is dead-Sheila.

So it isn't just the Aga marks for me that point to JBs innocence,its the sequence of events that has unfolded in the last 38 years.
So for me,if the Aga burns are accepted,surely logic tells us that JB must surely be innocent.

I fully support Snow's reasoning on this aspect of the case. I have more say on this and will post later.

[killingeve]

I fully support Snow's reasoning on this aspect of the case. I have more say on this and will post later.

I doubt the CCRC/CoA will support Snow's reasoning on this apsect of the case.  Why would they when the HO and defence pathologists confirmed soc images of Nevill's found position align with rm? 

[killingeve]

I fully support Snow's reasoning on this aspect of the case.I have more say on this and will post later.

Please do us all a favour and make it brief. 

[Bubo bubo]

I doubt the CCRC/CoA will support Snow's reasoning on this apsect of the case.  Why would they when the HO and defence pathologists confirmed soc images of Nevill's found position align with rm?

PV is a crook and a patsy.

[Bubo bubo]

Please do us all a favour and make it brief.

It will be a view. I do not believe in answering complex questions with one liners. Still playing silly games I see.

[killingeve]

PV is a crook and a patsy.

And your evidence for the above?

Pathologist for the defence, Prof Knight, fact checked all Vanezis' trial testimony.

Vanezis trial testimony was not even harmful to Bamber.