Author Topic: Kursk - Ukrainian forces becoming encircled.  (Read 4553 times)

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline gringo

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3388
Re: Kursk - Ukrainian forces becoming encircled.
« Reply #15 on: March 13, 2025, 10:59:PM »
Looks like they are in trouble. I hope a ceasefire can be negotiated quickly. Far too many lives lost on both sides.
     Predictably, the US/Ukraine "negotiated ceasefire" was politely rejected by the Russians. The losing side don't get to dictate the terms of ceasefire and this pathetic attempt to wrest control was always doomed to fail. A 30 day unconditional ceasefire is just a blatant attempt to recuperate and rearm for the Ukrainians who are currently getting routed. The Western/NATO powers have demonstrated time and again their bad faith in previous agreements. After former President Hollande and Angela Merkel both publicly admitted that they never had any intention of abiding by Minsk 2 and instead saw it as an opportunity to reinforce and rearm, Russia will not agree to any ceasefire with the duplicitous Western powers until Russia's conditions are met. Merkel and Hollande were the guarantors for Ukraine on the Minsk 2 accords. The Russian Armed Forces will be the guarantors of any "Minsk 3".
     There are no amount of arms or men that NATO can throw at Russia that can make a blind bit of difference. What should be becoming clearer to the citizens of western/NATO countries is the amount of "projection" in western propaganda. Throughout the war in Ukraine, western media and "talking head experts" have never tired of telling us how the war has exposed the weakness of the Russian military. Can't even defeat Ukraine, hundreds of thousands dead, running out of missiles, can't take territory despite supposedly trying all of this time. Should NATO enter, we are informed, Russia would be crushed in no time. Simultaneously, to being this weak, they must be stopped in Ukraine otherwise they will invade Western Europe?! :-[
      Literally everything they claim about Russia is projection. The weakness, the losses, the shortage of equipment, the inability to regain territory. In truth, NATO, long ago entered the conflict in Ukraine and Russia has already defeated them. Should NATO dare to stop hiding behind their proxy and directly enter war against Russia, then they would discover the difference between a so called "SMO"(special military operation) and "War".
      The latest moves around the so called "ceasefire proposal" bring the moment of truth ever closer. The Ukrainian forces are on the verge of collapse. The ceasefire to rearm attempt predictably denied by Russia. The Russian Armed Forces cannot be stopped and even direct intervention by NATO boots wouldn't stop the inevitable.
      All we have been told about the ineffectiveness and weakness bla bla about the Russian military is really applicable to NATO. They, not Russia, have been found wanting and need a complete rethink.

Offline Steve_uk

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 20872
Re: Kursk - Ukrainian forces becoming encircled.
« Reply #16 on: March 15, 2025, 09:37:AM »
You make it sound as if Putin is the gentleman, a statesman on the world stage. History proves you wrong: https://united24media.com/war-in-ukraine/how-10-years-ago-russia-turned-the-promise-of-a-green-corridor-from-ilovaisk-into-a-deadly-trap-1999

Offline gringo

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3388
Re: Kursk - Ukrainian forces becoming encircled.
« Reply #17 on: March 15, 2025, 09:44:PM »
Steve_uk
Hero Member
******

Posts: 19269
View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Re: Kursk - Ukrainian forces becoming encircled.
« Reply #16 on: Today at 09:37 AM »
Quote
You make it sound as if Putin is the gentleman, a statesman on the world stage. History proves you wrong:

      The link that you posted is preposterous in its lies and misrepresentation. There was no agreed "corridor" through which Ukrainian troops "believed they had safe passage" and "began withdrawing". Even Wikipedia acknowledges this:

    "After days of encirclement, Ukrainian forces rejected the DPR's proposal to open a humanitarian corridor on the condition that they abandon their armored vehicles and ammunition, and on the morning of 29 August 2014 began to leave Ilovaisk with their weapons."

     They attempted to break through the DPR lines in other words and unsurprisingly were fired upon. It is expected that any surrounded, surrendered troops would lay down their arms as a condition for leaving encirclement. Were the boot on the other foot, the same standard would apply. You would not expect encircled Russians to be able to leave with their arms and neither would you be crying massacre if encircled Russians had refused an offer to leave in a "humanitarian corridor" on condition that they lay down their arms, refused the offer and tried to break through in military vehicles. Below a more detailed and accurate report of Ilovaisk;
       
https://revers.press/tretyakova-eng/tpost/mljcfmm6g1-the-ilovaisk-cauldron-how-it-happened

     It is good that you brought up this previous example of NATO/Ukrainian duplicity and mendacity. It is pertinent to the current situation on the front lines in ways that will be made clearer shortly.


     

Offline Steve_uk

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 20872
Re: Kursk - Ukrainian forces becoming encircled.
« Reply #18 on: March 15, 2025, 10:31:PM »
I don't know the truth of the episode. Do you think any Western nations will ever accept the "Democratic" People's Republics of Donetsk and Luhansk as legitimate entities? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-49426724

Offline gringo

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3388
Re: Kursk - Ukrainian forces becoming encircled.
« Reply #19 on: March 16, 2025, 12:15:AM »
I don't know the truth of the episode. Do you think any Western nations will ever accept the "Democratic" People's Republics of Donetsk and Luhansk as legitimate entities? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-49426724
    It depends, Steve. Some currently, Western leaning countries, are likely to break away in my opinion. Hungary? Romania? There are fissures currently in the "Western Coalition" that threaten to grow into chasms. Much also depends on western public reaction over the next few years. As I see it at the moment, Western leaders understand the war is lost and are constructing an "iron curtain" mark 2. In this scenario Western nations wouldn't recognise the status, not that it would matter behind an iron curtain. This time we will be at the censored and impoverished side of the curtain.
     If western publics wake up and rid themselves of the corrupt globalist stooges currently destroying their countries and install sane leadership then they could take their place in the sovereignty respecting multi-polar world being built and would recognise the self determination rights of the citizens of Donetsk, Lugansk, Kherson, Zaporizhzhia oblasts and Crimea. More oblasts would would certainty also vote to leave Ukraine given the opportunity. This well understood fact, by the Western sponsors of Ukraine, goes some way to explaining the desperation of NATO countries for a "ceasefire" unconditionally and "freezing the lines" where they currently are, given the obvious Russian military dominance and momentum.
     To re-frame your question. Can you see any scenario in which any of the regions return to Ukraine?