Prospective retirement

[Hardy Boy]

Do you remember the demonstration where people were climbing on to statues, shining lights on Big Ben and tearing down posters of the hostages taken on October 7? I'm glad police cracked down on Palestine Action in St. Peter's Square, Manchester. It's about time we ended two-tier policing.

Thats the one I watched Steve in St Peter’s Square.  I’m all for freedom of speech ETC, but they were warned and the Police gave them plenty of time but they chose to get Arrested?

[Hardy Boy]

I remember the Mitfords. Didn't Unity shoot herself when war broke out and Hitler ordered his top surgeon to care for her?

Yes she shot herself in the head and survived, but she had brain damage and died later.  There has been a good series on TV about them.

[ngb1066]

Im afraid this Country is getting worse Steve.  I’ve just watched a video of two vicars in Manchester get arrested with others for supporting Palestine Action, holding placards in their support.  The Police gave them time to walk away, but they wouldn’t and there was arrests made.  If the Church are supporting (rightly or wrongly a group proscribed as Terrorists) what message are we sending out to the younger generation.

I have to disagree with you HB. The proscription of Palestine Action as a terrorist organisation is disgraceful.  It is vital that the Church and others challenge this directly.  Did you see the clip on Youtube of police harassing someone with a pro- Palestine placard suggesting that in itself indicated support for a proscribed organisation?  The person was threatened with arrest.  I would just tell the police to F- off and dare them to arrest me.  I would then sue them.  The law has to be challenged directly. The more people that do that the better as far as I am concerned.

[ngb1066]

I remember the Mitfords. Didn't Unity shoot herself when war broke out and Hitler ordered his top surgeon to care for her?

Yes, and he then repatriated her to Britain via France. There is Pathe News footage of her arriving on the boat train at Dover and being met by her father Lord Redesdale in his car.  You can see it on Youtube.

[ngb1066]

I remember the Mitfords. Didn't Unity shoot herself when war broke out and Hitler ordered his top surgeon to care for her?

Her sisters were Diana, Oswald Moseley's wife and a committed Nazi, and Jessica who was an active Communist. 

[Hardy Boy]

I have to disagree with you HB. The proscription of Palestine Action as a terrorist organisation is disgraceful.  It is vital that the Church and others challenge this directly.  Did you see the clip on Youtube of police harassing someone with a pro- Palestine placard suggesting that in itself indicated support for a proscribed organisation?  The person was threatened with arrest.  I would just tell the police to F- off and dare them to arrest me.  I would then sue them.  The law has to be challenged directly. The more people that do that the better as far as I am concerned.

Hi NGB. I do agree in a sense that we should be able to have freedom of speech ETC, but I thought the Police gave them plenty of warning to walk away ETC,  I don’t think it was the Police Fault, I think that they have been put in a very awkward position by this Government in the Handling of the Southport incident.  I was very surprised that they were branded a Terrorist organisation so quick,  but I must admit I’d never heard of them before, so I really don’t know what they’ve done in the past other than the MOD incident?   

[Steve_uk]

Her sisters were Diana, Oswald Moseley's wife and a committed Nazi, and Jessica who was an active Communist.

Don't forget Deborah, who married the future Duke of Devonshire, owner of Chatsworth House, and Nancy, who wrote Love in a Cold Climate.

[ngb1066]

Hi NGB. I do agree in a sense that we should be able to have freedom of speech ETC, but I thought the Police gave them plenty of warning to walk away ETC,  I don’t think it was the Police Fault, I think that they have been put in a very awkward position by this Government in the Handling of the Southport incident.  I was very surprised that they were branded a Terrorist organisation so quick,  but I must admit I’d never heard of them before, so I really don’t know what they’ve done in the past other than the MOD incident?

I agree that the police have been put in a very difficult position.  PA are certainly not a terrorist organisation by any sensible definition.  They have committed acts which contravene the criminal law.  However there are ample options open to the police to deal with this low level action.  It does not require the draconian provisions of terrorism legislation.  It is very dangerous.

[Steve_uk]

I have to disagree with you HB. The proscription of Palestine Action as a terrorist organisation is disgraceful.  It is vital that the Church and others challenge this directly.  Did you see the clip on Youtube of police harassing someone with a pro- Palestine placard suggesting that in itself indicated support for a proscribed organisation?  The person was threatened with arrest.  I would just tell the police to F- off and dare them to arrest me.  I would then sue them.  The law has to be challenged directly. The more people that do that the better as far as I am concerned.

The Church doesn't involve itself in political matters. The Sermon on the Mount demonstrated the separation of Church and State.

[Hardy Boy]

Her sisters were Diana, Oswald Moseley's wife and a committed Nazi, and Jessica who was an active Communist.

Yes that’s right NGB, I didn’t know that till I read up about it. Debo the Youngest became the Dutchess of Devonshire.  She would never have got that title, it was only because William was Killed ( her husbands older brother) Kick Kennedy would have been the Dutchess instead.  So it’s quite interesting they’re both buried next to each other,   Debo and Kick Kennedy.

[ngb1066]

Don't forget Deborah, who married the future Duke of Devonshire, owner of Chatsworth House, and Nancy, who wrote Love in a Cold Climate.

Yes, they were an interesting family.  I read several of Jessica Mitford's books and knew people who knew her well.  I also read a lot about Oswald and Diana Mosley.

   

[Hardy Boy]

I agree that the police have been put in a very difficult position.  PA are certainly not a terrorist organisation by any sensible definition.  They have committed acts which contravene the criminal law.  However there are ample options open to the police to deal with this low level action.  It does not require the draconian provisions of terrorism legislation.  It is very dangerous.

What sort of sentence do you see these protestors getting NGB?   It will be very interesting given the sentence’s given to the Southport riots and tweets?   They’re digging a very dangerous grave for themselves this Labour Government.

[Hardy Boy]

Don't forget Deborah, who married the future Duke of Devonshire, owner of Chatsworth House, and Nancy, who wrote Love in a Cold Climate.

Debo would not have got that title Steve, it was only because  William  Kick’s husband was Killed in the war, he was the elder brother,  his body was left (I think in Belgium) so he’s not buried in the Hartingtons grave plot where Kick and Debo are buried.  Kick died in a plane Crash going to meet her Father in France four years after William died, and the Chatsworth family brought her body back to the estate. 

[ngb1066]

The Church doesn't involve itself in political matters. The Sermon on the Mount demonstrated the separation of Church and State.

The Church (in its various guises) has always involved itself in political matters, because the teachings of the Bible relate to people and society.  Unfortunately organised religion has typically allied itself with the far right and reaction, but there have been shing examples of religious leaders taking a principled stand.  In the first category was Pope Pious XII who was a supporter of fascism, but in the second category was the last Pope who was courageous and progressive on several issues, in particular the crimes of the genocidal government of Israel.

[Hardy Boy]

Yes, they were an interesting family.  I read several of Jessica Mitford's books and knew people who knew her well.  I also read a lot about Oswald and Diana Mosley.

 

There's a good book on Kick Kennedy as well NGB.