Author Topic: The window Jeremy used for entry  (Read 41041 times)

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Offline Adam

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Re: The window Jeremy used for entry
« Reply #750 on: July 26, 2023, 06:20:PM »
At least Mike's scenario was accurate -

'By shooting them'.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline David1819

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Re: The window Jeremy used for entry
« Reply #751 on: July 26, 2023, 06:21:PM »
For starters you still have the wrong time it is 3.5 hours. No one not even EP can know what happened after NB phoned JB. June and Neville for example could have spent an hour trying to get her to calm down and come out from a room she had locked herself in. June could have tended a dying NB and prayed for him despite having some wounds. It is all speculative and we will never know.

The crime scene photos show Junes body to be in an advanced state of Livor mortis, AKA post-mortem hypostasis. This rules out June being shot by the police or being alive for several hours after the police arrived.

Offline Roch

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Re: The window Jeremy used for entry
« Reply #752 on: July 26, 2023, 07:01:PM »
The crime scene photos show Junes body to be in an advanced state of Livor mortis, AKA post-mortem hypostasis. This rules out June being shot by the police or being alive for several hours after the police arrived.

Which ones David. Is it June's legs?

Offline Bubo bubo

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Re: The window Jeremy used for entry
« Reply #753 on: July 26, 2023, 07:05:PM »
The crime scene photos show Junes body to be in an advanced state of Livor mortis, AKA post-mortem hypostasis. This rules out June being shot by the police or being alive for several hours after the police arrived.
IMO the photo of June on this site shows a lot of discoloration and cannot be used to make such a diagnosis.

Offline Bubo bubo

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Re: The window Jeremy used for entry
« Reply #754 on: July 26, 2023, 07:10:PM »

You've led us to accept their parsimony, i.e. cutting up discarded carpet to make rugs, so why not place a toilet mat, if, indeed it was such, beside the bed?

Do we actually know that June was laying flat/asleep when she was hit in the head?  Might the shot have occurred as she was attempting to get out of bed?
I agree up to a point with the above.
Then why move SC's body to disguise the fact.
https://tse2.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.0jhrWF3UpTsmaafkRX8oaQHaFK&pid=Api&P=0&w=249&h=174

Offline Roch

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Re: The window Jeremy used for entry
« Reply #755 on: July 26, 2023, 07:43:PM »
I agree up to a point with the above.
Then why move SC's body to disguise the fact.
https://tse2.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.0jhrWF3UpTsmaafkRX8oaQHaFK&pid=Api&P=0&w=249&h=174

'Spot the difference'.

Offline David1819

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Re: The window Jeremy used for entry
« Reply #756 on: July 26, 2023, 09:01:PM »
IMO the photo of June on this site shows a lot of discoloration and cannot be used to make such a diagnosis.

How so?

Offline Bubo bubo

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Online snow66!

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Re: The window Jeremy used for entry
« Reply #758 on: July 26, 2023, 09:57:PM »
Another point about the Aga burns to ponder,you will notice Yvonne Hartley asks the very pertinent question,if the Aga didn't cause the burns,then just what on earth DID?

I thought this was a very good point indeed.Just sit back and think it all  through for a moment or two, there are very few ways that a person can burn the back of their own neck,either you place your neck/back against something or someone places a hot instrument against it.

Now,we have heard all the silly arguments about JB inflicting the wounds from frog marching Nevill down stairs with the hot rifle barrel in his back to torture and checking for signs of life,all ridiculous hogwash,and besides the marks do not match the end of the rifle with or without silencer.

Now heres the thing,even supporters on the forum say that the 'Aga marks' are just a theory,but I say they have to be seen as a sure thing for a number of reasons.For one thing,they were slow burns,so why would anyone take some sort of a three pronged instrument, heat it up and stand behind Nevill holding it against his neck for several minutes for no logical reason? Or was it a single pronged item that the assallant used three times? Standing there slowly burning Nevills back in three different locations?

No,someone heating an instrument and slowly burning Nevills back simply does not work,does it?

And what would be the chances of finding a three pronged instrument that just happened to have the exact same spacing as the Aga handle and catches? Near impossible I would imagine.
Or what about heating the likes of the poker and inflicting three marks identical in spacing as the Aga? AND,in a straight line?? Thousands to one surely?

Now,before you argue again that the marks were not made on the night of the murders,that they were 'old' wounds of some sort,well the same applies for heavens sake! WHY OH WHY would old wounds have the EXACT same spacing as the kitchen Aga? Laughable! Again thousands to one surely!

It had to be the Aga that made the marks,as Yvonne pointed out,what else? What other item with a source of heat was there in the house? Another hot item with the exact same spacing as the Aga handles?  Another item with a Curved part to fit the curve of the neck? Think about it!

No,I may indeed be naive in thinking the marks on Nevills back will be seen as important,but if nothing else I am pretty sure that the CCRC will have to conclude that they were indeed made by Nevill lying against the Aga.

Then,personally,I think it will be very hard to fit a Bamber scenario around the marks,especially if it is proven they took several minutes to form.And if we are talking about hours rather than minutes for the marks to form,I would say the chances of JB being guilty are near to Zero.
Unless the police moved Nevills body that is,but personally I dont believe this happened.




« Last Edit: July 27, 2023, 12:07:PM by snow66! »

Offline Adam

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Re: The window Jeremy used for entry
« Reply #759 on: July 26, 2023, 10:03:PM »
No one has said Bamber frog marched Nevill downstairs.

The evidence is he fled downstairs as Bamber was shooting him.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2023, 10:04:PM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Adam

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Re: The window Jeremy used for entry
« Reply #760 on: July 26, 2023, 10:06:PM »
Bamber inflicted the burn marks to check for signs of life. 

Using the murder weapon minus silrncer. Or the nozzle of one of the other rifles.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: The window Jeremy used for entry
« Reply #761 on: July 26, 2023, 10:08:PM »
Another point about the Aga burns to ponder,you will notice Yvonne Hartley asks the very pertinent question,if the Aga didn't cause the burns,then just what on earth DID?

I thought this was a very good point indeed.Just sit back and think it all  through for a moment or two, there are very few ways that a person can burn the back of their own neck,either you place your neck/back against something or someone places a hot instrument against it.

Now,we have heard all the silly arguments about JB inflicting the wounds from frog marching Nevill down stairs with the hot rifle barrel in his back to torture and checking for signs of life,all ridiculous hogwash,and besides the marks do not match the end of the rifle with or without silencer.

Now heres the thing,even supporters on the forum say that the 'Aga marks' are just a theory,but I say they have to be seen as a sure thing for a number of reasons.For one thing,they were slow burns,so why would anyone take some sort of a three pronged instrument, heat it up and stand behind Nevill holding it against his neck for several minutes for no logical reason? Or was it a single pronged item that the assallant uded three times? Standing there slowly burning Nevills back in three different locations?

No,someone heating an instrument and slowly burning Nevills back simply does not work,does it?

And what would be the chances of finding a three pronged instrument that just happened to have the exact same spacing as the Aga handle and catches? Near impossible I would imagine.
Or what about heating the likes of the poker and inflicting three marks identical in spacing as the Aga? AND,in a straight line?? Thousands to one surely?

Now,before you argue again that the marks were not made on the night of the murders,that they were 'old' wounds of some sort,well the same applies for heavens sake! WHY OH WHY would old wounds have the EXACT same spacing as the kitchen Aga? Laughable! Again thousands to one surely!

It had to be the Aga that made the marks,as Yvonne pointed out,what else? What other item with a source of heat was there in the house? Another hot item with the exact same spacing as the Aga handles?  Another item with a Curved part to fit the curve of the neck? Think about it!

No,I may indeed be naive in thinking the marks on Nevills back will be seen as important,but if nothing else I am pretty sure that the CCRC will have to conclude that they were indeed made by Nevill lying against the Aga.

Then,personally,I think it will be very hard to fit a Bamber scenario around the marks,especially if it is proven they took several minutes to form.And if we are talking about hours rather than minutes for the marks to form,I would say the chances of JB being guilty are near to Zero.
Unless the police moved Nevills body that is,but personally I dont believe this happened.
Well argued snow66! but what is the significance if the Aga did make the burns pattern on Nevill's back? Could he not have fallen that way after the fight with Jeremy? Did police turn him over to check for signs of life?

Offline Bubo bubo

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Re: The window Jeremy used for entry
« Reply #762 on: July 26, 2023, 10:22:PM »
No one has said Bamber frog marched Nevill downstairs.

The evidence is he fled downstairs as Bamber was shooting him.
There is no evidence that this was the case, it just a story made up by the police. Just like the cycle ride along the sea wall.
Stop posting the evidence is statements unless you have evidence other than the Fairy Stories promulgated by EP
« Last Edit: July 26, 2023, 10:26:PM by Bubo bubo »

Offline Bubo bubo

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Re: The window Jeremy used for entry
« Reply #763 on: July 26, 2023, 10:23:PM »
Bamber inflicted the burn marks to check for signs of life. 

Using the murder weapon minus silrncer. Or the nozzle of one of the other rifles.
Source please

Online snow66!

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Re: The window Jeremy used for entry
« Reply #764 on: July 26, 2023, 10:28:PM »
Well argued snow66! but what is the significance if the Aga did make the burns pattern on Nevill's back? Could he not have fallen that way after the fight with Jeremy? Did police turn him over to check for signs of life?
I have explained all the possibilities in the 'Three hour Aga burn scenarios' if you read the posts carefully Steve.
Yes,Bamber may have killed Nevill and he fell against the Aga around 2.30,but this would indeed mean that the police moved Nevill on to the coal scuttle.It also means that the final four head shots were inflicted to Nevill before he fell against the Aga,