Author Topic: Who was targeted in Kramatorsk?  (Read 2898 times)

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Offline Roch

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Who was targeted in Kramatorsk?
« on: June 29, 2023, 06:55:PM »
Reports of an American and UK citizens killed in the strike. Looks like it was popular with foreign nationals, as there were some Columbians killed also.

Offline gringo

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Re: Who was targeted in Kramatorsk?
« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2023, 09:17:PM »
Reports of an American and UK citizens killed in the strike. Looks like it was popular with foreign nationals, as there were some Columbians killed also.
    A lot of NATO "mercenaries" were killed it appears. According to Russian MOD;
    2 AFU generals
Up to 50 officers of the AFU
Up to 20 foreign mercenaries and advisers.
- Slavyangrad

    Lots of video footage on Telegram and Twitter with a lot of English speaking military looking males-one example below;

    https://twitter.com/MyLordBebo/status/1674115755871289344

   

Offline David1819

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Re: Who was targeted in Kramatorsk?
« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2023, 10:29:PM »
    A lot of NATO "mercenaries" were killed it appears. According to Russian MOD;
    2 AFU generals
Up to 50 officers of the AFU
Up to 20 foreign mercenaries and advisers.
- Slavyangrad

    Lots of video footage on Telegram and Twitter with a lot of English speaking military looking males-one example below;

    https://twitter.com/MyLordBebo/status/1674115755871289344

 

Ah yes. 2 generals and 50 officers all huddle together in a local pizza restaurant by a main road just 13 kilometers from the front line. Every General knows that's how you congregate with your officers and advisors in a war.

Offline David1819

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Re: Who was targeted in Kramatorsk?
« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2023, 10:39:PM »
Reports of an American and UK citizens killed in the strike. Looks like it was popular with foreign nationals, as there were some Columbians killed also.

It was a pizza restaurant by some shops. Destroying civilian infrastructure divides the people living there into two groups:

Refugees, women and children - they leave.

The men who stay - The Russians deem "resistance fighters" and shoot on sight.

From the Russian point of view, it simplifies matters. Destroy everything that makes a society function. Anyone who doesn't flee - kill them. It's a brute-force approach to war, because they are not skilled enough to operate with any precision.

Offline gringo

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Re: Who was targeted in Kramatorsk?
« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2023, 10:48:PM »
    https://twitter.com/MyLordBebo/status/1674115755871289344/video/2

    Speaks for itself. There is plenty of footage of English speaking military referring to lots of soldiers buried under the rubble. It wasn't a Pizza restaurant that was targeted-it was a hotel for foreign "mercs". Anyone can see this.
     

Offline gringo

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Re: Who was targeted in Kramatorsk?
« Reply #5 on: June 29, 2023, 10:50:PM »
It was a pizza restaurant by some shops. Destroying civilian infrastructure divides the people living there into two groups:

Refugees, women and children - they leave.

The men who stay - The Russians deem "resistance fighters" and shoot on sight.

From the Russian point of view, it simplifies matters. Destroy everything that makes a society function. Anyone who doesn't flee - kill them. It's a brute-force approach to war, because they are not skilled enough to operate with any precision.
     Why do you think there are so many English speaking military types in footage from Kramatorsk?

Offline Roch

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Re: Who was targeted in Kramatorsk?
« Reply #6 on: June 29, 2023, 11:04:PM »
I doubt Russia would need a spy to send footage, in order to hit civilian infrastructure.

Offline gringo

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Re: Who was targeted in Kramatorsk?
« Reply #7 on: July 03, 2023, 08:48:AM »
     As victims names are released- a clearer picture emerges. We were told a couple of days ago that 15 year US Marine veteran, Ian Frank Tortorici, was killed in the "Pizza Restaurant" strike. He was apparently "on leave" according to US authorities and now joins a growing list of "holidaying US Marines" killed whilst "vacationing" in Ukraine.
    Now "journalist", Victoria Amelina, who documents "Russian war crimes" has become the latest victim after dying from injuries. It seems to have been a very popular "Pizza Restaurant" for mercenaries and propagandists as well as "civilians" obviously  ???  ::) The footage from the aftermath of the strike shows many English speaking Military types, one of whom is heard to say that there are, "soldiers everywhere buried under the rubble".
    Our "Vichy" media still try to claim that it was a civilian target. It sounds more like a set up for a joke.
    A war propagandist, a US Marine and a mercenary walk into a bar "Pizza Restaurant"
    (in your best Basil Brush voice) BOOM!  BOOM!

Offline Roch

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Re: Who was targeted in Kramatorsk?
« Reply #8 on: July 03, 2023, 09:10:AM »
     As victims names are released- a clearer picture emerges. We were told a couple of days ago that 15 year US Marine veteran, Ian Frank Tortorici, was killed in the "Pizza Restaurant" strike. He was apparently "on leave" according to US authorities and now joins a growing list of "holidaying US Marines" killed whilst "vacationing" in Ukraine.
    Now "journalist", Victoria Amelina, who documents "Russian war crimes" has become the latest victim after dying from injuries. It seems to have been a very popular "Pizza Restaurant" for mercenaries and propagandists as well as "civilians" obviously  ???  ::) The footage from the aftermath of the strike shows many English speaking Military types, one of whom is heard to say that there are, "soldiers everywhere buried under the rubble".
    Our "Vichy" media still try to claim that it was a civilian target. It sounds more like a set up for a joke.
    A war propagandist, a US Marine and a mercenary walk into a bar "Pizza Restaurant"
    (in your best Basil Brush voice) BOOM!  BOOM!

I thought he said there are people under the rubble. I wish we had uncensored news on the war over here.

Offline David1819

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Re: Who was targeted in Kramatorsk?
« Reply #9 on: July 03, 2023, 12:18:PM »
I thought he said there are people under the rubble. I wish we had uncensored news on the war over here.

Its been 14 months since Gringo claimed that NATO would withdraw to its 1997 borders, 12 month since Gringo claimed Russia would take Odessa and the entire coast and 7 month since Gringo claimed Zelenskys government was "about to collapse". This was all supposedly apparent if one had followed his "news sources".

As you know what has transpired is the complete opposite of all the claims above. When a fantasists world starts to be become even more untenable than it already was, they often double down in to a complete meltdown. This is what we are exhibiting right now.

Offline Roch

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Re: Who was targeted in Kramatorsk?
« Reply #10 on: July 03, 2023, 03:03:PM »
Its been 14 months since Gringo claimed that NATO would withdraw to its 1997 borders, 12 month since Gringo claimed Russia would take Odessa and the entire coast and 7 month since Gringo claimed Zelenskys government was "about to collapse". This was all supposedly apparent if one had followed his "news sources".

As you know what has transpired is the complete opposite of all the claims above. When a fantasists world starts to be become even more untenable than it already was, they often double down in to a complete meltdown. This is what we are exhibiting right now.

What is your point re Kramatorsk?

Offline gringo

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Re: Who was targeted in Kramatorsk?
« Reply #11 on: July 03, 2023, 03:50:PM »
Its been 14 months since Gringo claimed that NATO would withdraw to its 1997 borders, 12 month since Gringo claimed Russia would take Odessa and the entire coast and 7 month since Gringo claimed Zelenskys government was "about to collapse". This was all supposedly apparent if one had followed his "news sources".



    As the conflict is still ongoing and Ukraine/NATO are getting annihilated-What do you imagine will be the outcome? I still stand by all of those predictions, even more so now. I actually qualified those statements and stated that the outcome of the war will be referenda in other oblasts. Those who want independence from Ukraine will be allowed via referendum. Kiev have zero intention of offering referenda and have made clear that they will deal with recalcitrant populations harshly. The south and the east of Ukraine is largely ethnic Russian and have consistently voted with candidates that are Russian leaning. Russia have no intention of occupying hostile territory. Only Ukraine/NATO want to occupy land where they are not welcome. 
     On the other hand you have claimed that Russia are running low on missiles, artillery, tanks etc. a year ago. How's that going? You also claimed a year or so back that the US had Hypersonic missiles and that Russia were not in fact years ahead of the US in missile and air defence technology. How's that one going? At the same time you also claimed that US carriers were to have rail guns and lasers. Where are they?
     Your claims of the super weapons on US aircraft carriers was in response to my claim that Carrier Groups had been made obsolete by Russian missile tech-a self evidently true statement. Where are these wunderwaffen aircraft carriers? None of your ridiculous claims of NATO/US superiority have stood up.
     In terms of losses in the conflict-the numbers that you use are demonstrably false. There is general mobilisation now in Ukraine because of the horrendous losses. Press gangs abducting people off the street, at work etc. Many filmed and posted on social Media. This has been going on for months. Ukrainian graveyards are popping up everywhere. What do you believe Ukrainian losses so far to be?
     You still also ridiculously believe that the Patriot System took down a Kinzhal. The footage of the incident showed as clear as day what happened. The Patriot was spoofed into firing off something around 30 missiles in a couple of minutes and then was hit by the Kinzhal. It is all filmed. At least two of the Patriot missiles were seen to misfire and head straight back down. The Patriot is admitted to have been inefficient at intercepting Iraqi scud missiles. After the war it was admitted that only two kills could be verified and the interception rate was low to non-existent. But you believe that a system that failed to deal with Saddam's relatively pedestrian scuds can intercept a manoeuvrable hypersonic missile. Wilfully gullible.
     It is obvious to all who is running low on weapons and has been throughout the conflict. NATO/Ukraine themselves admit that the Russians can fire off 10 rounds of artillery shells for every one that Ukraine can fire. Their entire Navy and Air Force was destroyed in the opening weeks but the Moskva sinking is meant to show Russian weakness despite the fact that Russia destroyed the entire Navy and air force of Ukraine in days. This doesn't apparently doesn't demonstrate Ukrainian weakness or Russian strength.
    Ukraine/NATO have been scraping around for weapons and ammo for months from the entirety of NATO having emptied the old Soviet stocks in the former USSR countries and still are getting outproduced and outnumbered by Russia on their own. How do you tally that a war in which something like 65/70% of casualties are from artillery, and one side is firing off ten shells for every one of the other side, that the outgunned side is taking fewer casualties. You make no sense and don't attempt to. Despite these undisputed numbers, despite the general mobilisation in Ukraine, despite the burning and destruction of so much equipment that Ukraine have depleted their own vast opening weapons stock + the entire Soviet stock of tanks, missiles, planes of former Soviet states and are now depleting NATO stocks without Russia breaking sweat-you believe that Russian losses are higher than Ukraine who have burnt through at least three armies so far.
     So tell us, David. What exactly does Ukrainian/NATO victory look like. How do Ukraine/NATO defeat Russia? What is the path to victory  ::)?
     When are the lasers, rail guns and hypersonic weapons going to appear?
     Only propagandised dimwits in NATOstan believe that Ukraine/NATO can defeat Russia in a land war in their own backyard. The rest of the world are getting on with BRICS+. African nations, Asian and South American nations can all see the writing on the wall and are siding with Russia, China et al in the burgeoning multipolar vision of the world.
     There has never been any doubt whatsoever over the result of the hostilities. Ukraine should have abided by Minsk 2. The next offer they receive will be much worse and NATO are powerless to prevent the inevitable defeat of Ukraine and by extension NATO.
     
     
   
     

Offline gringo

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Re: Who was targeted in Kramatorsk?
« Reply #12 on: July 03, 2023, 03:54:PM »
I thought he said there are people under the rubble. I wish we had uncensored news on the war over here.
    https://t.me/s/Slavyangrad?q=kramatorsk

     Scroll up and you will find the video of the incident.
     "Look what these bastards are doing to this country. There's soldiers under this rubble all over". That is the verbatim transcript of what sounds like a South African merc.
     Will try and find a rumble or youtube video if you can't access the Slavyangrad Telegram in the link above.

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Who was targeted in Kramatorsk?
« Reply #13 on: July 03, 2023, 04:59:PM »
    As the conflict is still ongoing and Ukraine/NATO are getting annihilated-What do you imagine will be the outcome? I still stand by all of those predictions, even more so now. I actually qualified those statements and stated that the outcome of the war will be referenda in other oblasts. Those who want independence from Ukraine will be allowed via referendum. Kiev have zero intention of offering referenda and have made clear that they will deal with recalcitrant populations harshly. The south and the east of Ukraine is largely ethnic Russian and have consistently voted with candidates that are Russian leaning. Russia have no intention of occupying hostile territory. Only Ukraine/NATO want to occupy land where they are not welcome. 
     On the other hand you have claimed that Russia are running low on missiles, artillery, tanks etc. a year ago. How's that going? You also claimed a year or so back that the US had Hypersonic missiles and that Russia were not in fact years ahead of the US in missile and air defence technology. How's that one going? At the same time you also claimed that US carriers were to have rail guns and lasers. Where are they?
     Your claims of the super weapons on US aircraft carriers was in response to my claim that Carrier Groups had been made obsolete by Russian missile tech-a self evidently true statement. Where are these wunderwaffen aircraft carriers? None of your ridiculous claims of NATO/US superiority have stood up.
     In terms of losses in the conflict-the numbers that you use are demonstrably false. There is general mobilisation now in Ukraine because of the horrendous losses. Press gangs abducting people off the street, at work etc. Many filmed and posted on social Media. This has been going on for months. Ukrainian graveyards are popping up everywhere. What do you believe Ukrainian losses so far to be?
     You still also ridiculously believe that the Patriot System took down a Kinzhal. The footage of the incident showed as clear as day what happened. The Patriot was spoofed into firing off something around 30 missiles in a couple of minutes and then was hit by the Kinzhal. It is all filmed. At least two of the Patriot missiles were seen to misfire and head straight back down. The Patriot is admitted to have been inefficient at intercepting Iraqi scud missiles. After the war it was admitted that only two kills could be verified and the interception rate was low to non-existent. But you believe that a system that failed to deal with Saddam's relatively pedestrian scuds can intercept a manoeuvrable hypersonic missile. Wilfully gullible.
     It is obvious to all who is running low on weapons and has been throughout the conflict. NATO/Ukraine themselves admit that the Russians can fire off 10 rounds of artillery shells for every one that Ukraine can fire. Their entire Navy and Air Force was destroyed in the opening weeks but the Moskva sinking is meant to show Russian weakness despite the fact that Russia destroyed the entire Navy and air force of Ukraine in days. This doesn't apparently doesn't demonstrate Ukrainian weakness or Russian strength.
    Ukraine/NATO have been scraping around for weapons and ammo for months from the entirety of NATO having emptied the old Soviet stocks in the former USSR countries and still are getting outproduced and outnumbered by Russia on their own. How do you tally that a war in which something like 65/70% of casualties are from artillery, and one side is firing off ten shells for every one of the other side, that the outgunned side is taking fewer casualties. You make no sense and don't attempt to. Despite these undisputed numbers, despite the general mobilisation in Ukraine, despite the burning and destruction of so much equipment that Ukraine have depleted their own vast opening weapons stock + the entire Soviet stock of tanks, missiles, planes of former Soviet states and are now depleting NATO stocks without Russia breaking sweat-you believe that Russian losses are higher than Ukraine who have burnt through at least three armies so far.
     So tell us, David. What exactly does Ukrainian/NATO victory look like. How do Ukraine/NATO defeat Russia? What is the path to victory  ::)?
     When are the lasers, rail guns and hypersonic weapons going to appear?
     Only propagandised dimwits in NATOstan believe that Ukraine/NATO can defeat Russia in a land war in their own backyard. The rest of the world are getting on with BRICS+. African nations, Asian and South American nations can all see the writing on the wall and are siding with Russia, China et al in the burgeoning multipolar vision of the world.
     There has never been any doubt whatsoever over the result of the hostilities. Ukraine should have abided by Minsk 2. The next offer they receive will be much worse and NATO are powerless to prevent the inevitable defeat of Ukraine and by extension NATO.
     
     
   
   
Ukrainians may have voted for Russia-leaning candidates in previous elections, but there is no evidence they wished to break away. https://www.statista.com/chart/26933/ukrainians-survey-nato-eu/

A Ukrainian victory would be self-determination for Ukrainians after Russian troops have left Ukrainian soil.

Four countries stood with Russia in the immediate aftermath of the invasion: Belarus, Syria, Eritrea, North Korea.

Minsk 2 is ambiguous and not fit for purpose: https://www.chathamhouse.org/2022/02/why-minsk-2-cannot-solve-ukraine-crisis
« Last Edit: July 03, 2023, 05:03:PM by Steve_uk »

Offline gringo

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Re: Who was targeted in Kramatorsk?
« Reply #14 on: July 03, 2023, 05:27:PM »
   https://rumble.com/v2x2zs5-russia-strikes-us-soldiers-in-ukrainian-pizza-restaurant.html

      If you go to 9.30 of the video the footage of the South African merc talking of "Soldiers under this rubble everywhere" is clear.