Author Topic: Sheila did not die, until after 8.10am, in bedroom...  (Read 16212 times)

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Offline Enigma

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Re: Sheila did not die, until after 8.10am, in bedroom...
« Reply #15 on: July 25, 2011, 07:10:PM »
The Official time of death according to whom? Thankfully not acording to the law ... a pathologist is required to give such an 'official' declaration. Therefore it is certainly not the 'official' time of death.

And it appears you have given a time of death as 8.44am for a body found at 7.37am; call me picky but isn't that impossible? Or perhaps the body found at 7.37am wasn't desceased but then died at 8.44am ..... she didn't by any chance manage to whisper 'Jeremy did it' did she?

One thing that is official is that Bamber is a proven multiple murderer. This is just misleading fog.

 

PB  - Once again, how does your statement above, repeated in various forms in your posts, advance the debate here in any way?  Are you trying to test the patience of the moderators so that in the end they ban you?  You certainly give that impression in your posts and I do not understand what you would gain out of that.  Why not accept the invitation which has been extended to you and join in the debate in a constructive way?  You can express your views forcefully and point out weaknesses you see in the arguments of others.  However your current posts just seem to waste the time of forum members with endless repetition of your view of Bamber and attempts to wind up other forum members.

I know it's Mike's forum but calling something official when it is certainly not is very misleading and I refuted it. What is wrong with that.

PB - nothing is wrong with that and I accept that it is legitimate debate.  However the part I was drawing attention to was the comment I highlighted in blue in my post above.  What does that add to the debate?
Fair enough ... please ignore fog and leave it as just misleading.

Offline mike tesko

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Re: Sheila did not die, until after 8.10am, in bedroom...
« Reply #16 on: July 25, 2011, 07:59:PM »
The only official time of death in the case of Sheila Caffell was/is 8.44am - this is/was consistent with her body being the female found in the kitchen at/from 7.37am, and there only being three further bodies upstairs, by 8.10am...

Surely with that logic it would place the time of death at some point before 7:37am.  ???
----------------------

The only official lawful time of death in Sheila's case was given by Dr Craig at the scene, timed at 8:44am, in the bedroom at whf...

The reference to the finding of "two dead bodies" upon entry to the kitchen, one dead male, one dead female, at 7:37am, does not constitute an official time of death in accordance with the law, because nobody has put their name or identity to those comments...

Obviously...

If two dead bodies were found in the kitchen upon entry, timed at 7:37am and later, then if this be the case, then Sheila or June would have had to be dead in the kitchen, before 8:44am...

As far as I know, only a doctor can give a time of death, unless other evidence exists to show that a particular person died at a particular point in time, for example, by eye witness account etc...

One has to wonder if the "officers report" which refers to the shooting incident in the kitchen, has got anything at all to do with the timing of the alleged females death in the kitchen, timed at 7:37am? Until the contents of that report are disclosed, there is no evidence to prove that there was a dead female in the kitchen, since she was obviously not dead, and still very much alive, so much so, that she managed to get upstairs into the bedroom after 8:10am, and thereafter she died as a result of being shot fatally under the chin...

According to DR Craig, he verified that Sheila Caffell was  dead in the bedroom at precisely 8:44am, by reference to a solitary shot in the throat - he did not see nor report a second wound to the neck, and therefore could not have taken such a second wound into account when officially pronouncing her as being dead - what they implies is that if Sheila did have a second wound on her neck at the time Dr Craig confirmed Sheila as being dead, he was not saying that she died from this second wound because he makes no reference at all to it, and consequently, Sheila could not have been the Dead female found in the kitchen, but she could still have been the female being referred to?

As I say...

The only way Sheila could have been confirmed to be dead in the kitchen, at 7:37am and 7:38am, onwards, was if there was an "eye witness account" to Sheila shooting herself dead in the kitchen, to which the "officers report" which has not been disclosed could obviously relate...

The reason it has not been disclosed, is because the police wrongly assumed that Sheila had taken her own life in the kitchen as the armed officers commenced their approach to enter the farmhouse, and because she did not actually die there in the kitchen, the officers report and its contents have been suppressed because its contents are not factual, and what is more, the contents prove that Jeremy Bamber did not shoot and kill Sheila in the bedroom by use of the silencer and gun, and he did not stage manage Sheila's body there to make it look like o appear as though she had killed the others and then taken her own life...

In my view...

An application to the high court could be made for the disclosure of the said officers report to be disclosed, because its contents would tend to prove beyond question that Jeremy Bamber could not / did not kill Sheila in the bedroom, and he could not have used the silencer on the gun to shoot and kill her there, and it would expose all this nonsense about the blood in the silencer proving that Jeremy took the silencer off the gun after he killed Sheila in the bedroom, and he took it and hid it in the gun cupboard downstairs before stage managing her body to make it look like she took her own life...

Obtaining a copy of that officers report, will serve to prove once and for all that Jeremy Bamber is innocent, if I am wrong, its production might help to prove that he did it - so, why are the contents being withheld?

Bring it on...

Lets get to the truth...

The only official time of death was the one given by the police surgeon, Dr Craig, at the scene, timed at 8:44am - and the police and the prosecution have failed to prove that she was dead any sooner than that time, and therefore, Jeremy Bambers conviction for her death is invalidated, since Jeremy was in th company of police officers at the scene from 3:52am, and therefore, he could not be responsible for killing her......
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Hartley

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Re: Sheila did not die, until after 8.10am, in bedroom...
« Reply #17 on: July 25, 2011, 08:02:PM »
Yes, anyway, we know two bodies were not found in the kitchen, it was Nevills body mistaken as a female, as is documented in the firearms units statement.

chochokeira

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Re: Sheila did not die, until after 8.10am, in bedroom...
« Reply #18 on: July 25, 2011, 08:11:PM »
The Official time of death according to whom? Thankfully not acording to the law ... a pathologist is required to give such an 'official' declaration. Therefore it is certainly not the 'official' time of death.

And it appears you have given a time of death as 8.44am for a body found at 7.37am; call me picky but isn't that impossible? Or perhaps the body found at 7.37am wasn't desceased but then died at 8.44am ..... she didn't by any chance manage to whisper 'Jeremy did it' did she?

One thing that is official is that Bamber is a proven multiple murderer. This is just misleading fog.

 
I don't think we can use the word "proven". Proven is a very strong word. He was found guilty by a 10 to 2 jury. Just as unless there is absolute proof that he is innocent, if he was found not guilty by an appeal court he would not be proven innocent.

I totally agree, Grahame. Well said +1

'Guilty' and 'proven' in my book only happen following a fair trial. Jeremy Bamber has never had a fair trial or a fair Appeal. That's a basic human right and Jeremy cannot be denied it forever, as much as some people with vested interests would love to deny this to him and to keep him in prison.

Get used to it all of you who want Jeremy to rot in prison, it's not going to happen. Jeremy Bamber will have a fair hearing at Appeal and you are just going to have to live with that.

Justice will be done!

chochokeira

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Re: Sheila did not die, until after 8.10am, in bedroom...
« Reply #19 on: July 25, 2011, 08:16:PM »
The only official time of death in the case of Sheila Caffell was/is 8.44am - this is/was consistent with her body being the female found in the kitchen at/from 7.37am, and there only being three further bodies upstairs, by 8.10am...

Surely with that logic it would place the time of death at some point before 7:37am.  ???
----------------------

The only official lawful time of death in Sheila's case was given by Dr Craig at the scene, timed at 8:44am, in the bedroom at whf...

The reference to the finding of "two dead bodies" upon entry to the kitchen, one dead male, one dead female, at 7:37am, does not constitute an official time of death in accordance with the law, because nobody has put their name or identity to those comments...

Obviously...

If two dead bodies were found in the kitchen upon entry, timed at 7:37am and later, then if this be the case, then Sheila or June would have had to be dead in the kitchen, before 8:44am...

As far as I know, only a doctor can give a time of death, unless other evidence exists to show that a particular person died at a particular point in time, for example, by eye witness account etc...

One has to wonder if the "officers report" which refers to the shooting incident in the kitchen, has got anything at all to do with the timing of the alleged females death in the kitchen, timed at 7:37am? Until the contents of that report are disclosed, there is no evidence to prove that there was a dead female in the kitchen, since she was obviously not dead, and still very much alive, so much so, that she managed to get upstairs into the bedroom after 8:10am, and thereafter she died as a result of being shot fatally under the chin...

According to DR Craig, he verified that Sheila Caffell was  dead in the bedroom at precisely 8:44am, by reference to a solitary shot in the throat - he did not see nor report a second wound to the neck, and therefore could not have taken such a second wound into account when officially pronouncing her as being dead - what they implies is that if Sheila did have a second wound on her neck at the time Dr Craig confirmed Sheila as being dead, he was not saying that she died from this second wound because he makes no reference at all to it, and consequently, Sheila could not have been the Dead female found in the kitchen, but she could still have been the female being referred to?

As I say...

The only way Sheila could have been confirmed to be dead in the kitchen, at 7:37am and 7:38am, onwards, was if there was an "eye witness account" to Sheila shooting herself dead in the kitchen, to which the "officers report" which has not been disclosed could obviously relate...

The reason it has not been disclosed, is because the police wrongly assumed that Sheila had taken her own life in the kitchen as the armed officers commenced their approach to enter the farmhouse, and because she did not actually die there in the kitchen, the officers report and its contents have been suppressed because its contents are not factual, and what is more, the contents prove that Jeremy Bamber did not shoot and kill Sheila in the bedroom by use of the silencer and gun, and he did not stage manage Sheila's body there to make it look like o appear as though she had killed the others and then taken her own life...

In my view...

An application to the high court could be made for the disclosure of the said officers report to be disclosed, because its contents would tend to prove beyond question that Jeremy Bamber could not / did not kill Sheila in the bedroom, and he could not have used the silencer on the gun to shoot and kill her there, and it would expose all this nonsense about the blood in the silencer proving that Jeremy took the silencer off the gun after he killed Sheila in the bedroom, and he took it and hid it in the gun cupboard downstairs before stage managing her body to make it look like she took her own life...

Obtaining a copy of that officers report, will serve to prove once and for all that Jeremy Bamber is innocent, if I am wrong, its production might help to prove that he did it - so, why are the contents being withheld?

Bring it on...

Lets get to the truth...

The only official time of death was the one given by the police surgeon, Dr Craig, at the scene, timed at 8:44am - and the police and the prosecution have failed to prove that she was dead any sooner than that time, and therefore, Jeremy Bambers conviction for her death is invalidated, since Jeremy was in th company of police officers at the scene from 3:52am, and therefore, he could not be responsible for killing her......

Well said, Mike. +1 Yes, let's get to the truth, bring it on! And let's get justice for Jeremy - a fair hearing at long last - after 25 years of fighting for justice.

Offline mike tesko

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Re: Sheila did not die, until after 8.10am, in bedroom...
« Reply #20 on: July 25, 2011, 08:20:PM »
The Official time of death according to whom? Thankfully not acording to the law ... a pathologist is required to give such an 'official' declaration. Therefore it is certainly not the 'official' time of death.

And it appears you have given a time of death as 8.44am for a body found at 7.37am; call me picky but isn't that impossible? Or perhaps the body found at 7.37am wasn't desceased but then died at 8.44am ..... she didn't by any chance manage to whisper 'Jeremy did it' did she?

One thing that is official is that Bamber is a proven multiple murderer. This is just misleading fog.

 
---------

8:44am, is the official lawful time of death recorded in connection with Sheila Caffells death, no other time of death was / is established...

If you or anybody else knows of a different time of death, please be so kind as to let me know because i will then look into the matter as thoroughly as I can and report back...

Being sarcastic does you no favors...

Female body found at and from 7:37am, which was reported as being dead, was obviously not dead, and after 8:10am, that female managed to get upstairs into the bedroom where her life was brought to a conclusion by way of a solitary shot under the chin, that Jeremy Bamber, nor any would be as yet unidentified hit man could have been responsible for inflicting...

As I understand it, a doctor can pronounce the time of death, and based on eye witness evidence, where the taking of ones own life is witnessed by another, details of such observations may be taken into account to pinpoint as accurately as possible, the time when the deceased took their own life - in this respect, the contents of the officers report relating to the shooting incident downstairs, which has so far not been disclosed, could be evidence to confirm that Sheila was found downstiars upon entry to the kitchen by the police, who mistakenly presumed she had taken her own life as a result of the shot to the side of the neck...

I do not know which comics you have been reading, but there is no absolute evidence that Jeremy Bamber killed anyone...

The only official time of death in Sheila's case, is/was 8:44am, so get your facts right...

The pathologist did not give a precise time of death in Sheila's case (again get your facts right) he conducted the autopsy on the body of Ralph Bamber first commencing at 3pm, and by the time he got around to performing the autopsy on Sheila, he said that death in her case was consistent with her having died several hours beforehand - now it should be clear to all concerned that if the pathologist commenced the autopsy on the body of Sheila at around 4 - 4.30pm, on 7th August 1985, that any reference to her death having occurred several hours beforehand, would not take the timing of her death much sooner if at all, to before the time given by the police surgeon, Dr Craig, who pronounced her death at 8:44am...

About nine hours had elapsed since the time (8:44am) when DR Craig pronounced Sheila as being dead at the scene, and the time when the pathologist conducted the autopsy on the body of Sheila Caffell, and his reference to her death having occurred several hours beforehand, is consistent with Sheila having died in the bedroom, around the time that Dr Craig pronounced her as being dead by way of, or as a result of one solitary wound under the chin...

Get the facts right...

Jeremy could not have killed Sheila in the bedroom and be responsible for all the other nonsense at around 8:44am? (9 hours)

If Sheila had died at 7:44am, it would have been 10 hours prior to the time the pathologist conducted the autopsy on Sheila, and pronouncing that she had died several hours beforehand?

6:44am - 11 hours)
5:44am - 12 hours/ half a day
4:44am - 13 hours
3:44am - 14 hours

Look at these statistics, do you honestly expect me or anybody else to believe that the pathologists conclusions, that Sheila had died several hours before the time he carried out the autopsy upon her corpse, could be a reference to her having died any sooner than 8:44am in that bedroom at whf?

How long is one hour?
How long is a couple of hours>
How long is a few hours?
How long are several hours?
How long is half a day?

« Last Edit: July 25, 2011, 08:37:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

chochokeira

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Re: Sheila did not die, until after 8.10am, in bedroom...
« Reply #21 on: July 25, 2011, 08:25:PM »
The Official time of death according to whom? Thankfully not acording to the law ... a pathologist is required to give such an 'official' declaration. Therefore it is certainly not the 'official' time of death.

And it appears you have given a time of death as 8.44am for a body found at 7.37am; call me picky but isn't that impossible? Or perhaps the body found at 7.37am wasn't desceased but then died at 8.44am ..... she didn't by any chance manage to whisper 'Jeremy did it' did she?

One thing that is official is that Bamber is a proven multiple murderer. This is just misleading fog.

 

PB  - Once again, how does your statement above, repeated in various forms in your posts, advance the debate here in any way?  Are you trying to test the patience of the moderators so that in the end they ban you?  You certainly give that impression in your posts and I do not understand what you would gain out of that.  Why not accept the invitation which has been extended to you and join in the debate in a constructive way?  You can express your views forcefully and point out weaknesses you see in the arguments of others.  However your current posts just seem to waste the time of forum members with endless repetition of your view of Bamber and attempts to wind up other forum members.


Good points, ngb, +1 I totally agree with you. PB has nothing to gain from personal attacks and everything to gain from joining in constructive and respectful debate with us.

chochokeira

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Re: Sheila did not die, until after 8.10am, in bedroom...
« Reply #22 on: July 25, 2011, 08:27:PM »
The only official time of death in the case of Sheila Caffell was/is 8.44am - this is/was consistant with her body being the female found in the kitchen at/from 7.37am, and there only being three further bodies upstairs, by 8.10am...
Mike, what times of death were given for the other dead people?

Grahame

The normal practice would have been for a Home Office pathologist to visit the scene as soon as possible and certainly before the bodies were removed to the mortuary.  A pathologist would have taken details of body temperature and noted other features which would have enabled to give an approximate time of death in each case.  For some reason that procedure was not followed here, and a police surgeon (i.e. an ordinary GP on the list approved for police work) was brought in simply to certify the fact of death.  The time he recorded in each case was the time he certified the fact that the person was dead rather than the time he believed the person had died.  By the time the pathologist carried out the post mortem examinations it was too late for any realistic assessment of the time of death to be made.

Another excellent post ngb.

chochokeira

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Re: Sheila did not die, until after 8.10am, in bedroom...
« Reply #23 on: July 25, 2011, 08:31:PM »
pb whatever evidence that JB was guilty, there was plenty of evidence to the contrary!

Exactly, Haughton +1

Offline mike tesko

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Re: Sheila did not die, until after 8.10am, in bedroom...
« Reply #24 on: July 25, 2011, 08:34:PM »
Yes, anyway, we know two bodies were not found in the kitchen, it was Nevills body mistaken as a female, as is documented in the firearms units statement.
------------------

No, you are wrong, there were two bodies found downstairs in the kitchen when the police first entered - as evidenced and cross referenced by the contents of the police logs which only report the finding of three further bodies upstairs by 8:10am...

It is this part of the conspiracy where the police made a pigs ear of it, by failing to alter the references to the number of bodies that would have been found upstairs, if there had been some sort of a mix up downstiars involving only one body...

The police put together a cover story to try and account for Sheila's body not originally being found downstairs, but overlooked the importance of establishing that there should have been four bodies found upstairs, instead of only three...

Furthermore...

If Ralph was sat on that chair behind that internal kitchen door, nobody would have been able to see his body there because of the acuteness of the angle to mistakenly identify it as a dead female, I know this to be true because I have been to the window and looked through and the angle is too acute...

To settle this matter once and for all...

Go to WHF, position one of the wooden chairs behind the door in question and sit someone in it. The go out side and take a photograph to prove what can be seen?

Whilst your at it, get somebody to stand outside the kitchen window, whilst somebody who is sat in that chair behind the door takes a photograph showing the angle and view, looking back in the direction of the said kitchen window...

Do it, and prove to me that you are right and I am wrong...

« Last Edit: July 25, 2011, 08:40:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

chochokeira

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Re: Sheila did not die, until after 8.10am, in bedroom...
« Reply #25 on: July 25, 2011, 08:36:PM »
The Official time of death according to whom? Thankfully not acording to the law ... a pathologist is required to give such an 'official' declaration. Therefore it is certainly not the 'official' time of death.

And it appears you have given a time of death as 8.44am for a body found at 7.37am; call me picky but isn't that impossible? Or perhaps the body found at 7.37am wasn't desceased but then died at 8.44am ..... she didn't by any chance manage to whisper 'Jeremy did it' did she?

One thing that is official is that Bamber is a proven multiple murderer. This is just misleading fog.

 

You really need to educate your self.  Please read my response to you on the 'banner' thread.  Rope is nearly at the end of its coil here.


What a wonderful desciption, Rocky: Rope is nearly at the end of its coil here. I like that and I second it. +1

chochokeira

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Re: Sheila did not die, until after 8.10am, in bedroom...
« Reply #26 on: July 25, 2011, 08:39:PM »
Yes, anyway, we know two bodies were not found in the kitchen, it was Nevills body mistaken as a female, as is documented in the firearms units statement.
------------------

No, you are wrong, there were two bodies found downstairs in the kitchen when the police first entered - as evidenced and cross referenced by the contents of the police logs which only report the finding of three further bodies upstairs by 8:10am...

It is this part of the conspiracy where the police made a pigs ear of it, by failing to alter the references to the number of bodies that would have been found upstairs, if there had been some sort of a mix up downstiars involving only one body...

The police put together a cover story to try and account for Sheila's body not originally being found downstairs, but overlooked the importance of establishing that there were four bodies found upstiars, instead of only three...

Furhjermore...

If Ralph was sat on that chair behind that intrenal kitrchen door, nobody would have been able to see his body there because of the acuteness of the angle to mistakenly identify it as a dead female, I know this to be true because I have been to the window and looked through and the angle is too acute...

To settle this matter once and for all...

Go to WHF, position one of the wooden chairs behind the door in question and sit someone in it. The go out side and take a photograph to prove what can be seen?

Whilst your at it, get somebody to stand outside the kitchen window, whilst somebody who is sat in that chair behind the door takes a photograph showing the angle and view, looking back in the direction of the said kitchen window...

Do it, and prove to me that you are right and I am wrong...

Good post, Mike. Can't +1 you again yet, so will have to owe you one.

Hartley

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Re: Sheila did not die, until after 8.10am, in bedroom...
« Reply #27 on: July 25, 2011, 08:58:PM »
Yes, anyway, we know two bodies were not found in the kitchen, it was Nevills body mistaken as a female, as is documented in the firearms units statement.
------------------

No, you are wrong, there were two bodies found downstairs in the kitchen when the police first entered - as evidenced and cross referenced by the contents of the police logs which only report the finding of three further bodies upstairs by 8:10am...

It is this part of the conspiracy where the police made a pigs ear of it, by failing to alter the references to the number of bodies that would have been found upstairs, if there had been some sort of a mix up downstiars involving only one body...

The police put together a cover story to try and account for Sheila's body not originally being found downstairs, but overlooked the importance of establishing that there should have been four bodies found upstairs, instead of only three...

Furthermore...

If Ralph was sat on that chair behind that internal kitchen door, nobody would have been able to see his body there because of the acuteness of the angle to mistakenly identify it as a dead female, I know this to be true because I have been to the window and looked through and the angle is too acute...

To settle this matter once and for all...

Go to WHF, position one of the wooden chairs behind the door in question and sit someone in it. The go out side and take a photograph to prove what can be seen?

Whilst your at it, get somebody to stand outside the kitchen window, whilst somebody who is sat in that chair behind the door takes a photograph showing the angle and view, looking back in the direction of the said kitchen window...

Do it, and prove to me that you are right and I am wrong...

I think you are wrong, doesn't matter how many times you or I repeat ourselves, in order your theory to be correct, not only do we have to discount the various police officers statements, but we also have place Nevill right in the corner, despite the fact he was found in front of the aga. We can go further amd say if Shiela was in the kitchen, then we are missing a bullet case, so you need to introduce another weapon, an air rifle this time, but theres no record of any of Shielas blood and the blood stain patterns do not match her walking through a house full of police officers unseen.

It is much more likely that on their open mic radio sysyem, Collins called one dead female seen through the window, then upon entry they find Ralph and call in one dead male, they then go upstairs and find four bodies, they call in five bodies in total, the information room mistakenly think that two bodies have already been found, wrongly note that a further three bodies are found upstairs instead of four.

I put it to you that my interpretation is a hundred times more plausable than yours.

Offline jon

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Re: Sheila did not die, until after 8.10am, in bedroom...
« Reply #28 on: July 25, 2011, 09:00:PM »
Yes, anyway, we know two bodies were not found in the kitchen, it was Nevills body mistaken as a female, as is documented in the firearms units statement.
------------------

No, you are wrong, there were two bodies found downstairs in the kitchen when the police first entered - as evidenced and cross referenced by the contents of the police logs which only report the finding of three further bodies upstairs by 8:10am...

It is this part of the conspiracy where the police made a pigs ear of it, by failing to alter the references to the number of bodies that would have been found upstairs, if there had been some sort of a mix up downstiars involving only one body...

The police put together a cover story to try and account for Sheila's body not originally being found downstairs, but overlooked the importance of establishing that there should have been four bodies found upstairs, instead of only three...

Furthermore...

If Ralph was sat on that chair behind that internal kitchen door, nobody would have been able to see his body there because of the acuteness of the angle to mistakenly identify it as a dead female, I know this to be true because I have been to the window and looked through and the angle is too acute...

To settle this matter once and for all...

Go to WHF, position one of the wooden chairs behind the door in question and sit someone in it. The go out side and take a photograph to prove what can be seen?

Whilst your at it, get somebody to stand outside the kitchen window, whilst somebody who is sat in that chair behind the door takes a photograph showing the angle and view, looking back in the direction of the said kitchen window...

Do it, and prove to me that you are right and I am wrong...

I think you are wrong, doesn't matter how many times you or I repeat ourselves, in order your theory to be correct, not only do we have to discount the various police officers statements, but we also have place Nevill right in the corner, despite the fact he was found in front of the aga. We can go further amd say if Shiela was in the kitchen, then we are missing a bullet case, so you need to introduce another weapon, an air rifle this time, but theres no record of any of Shielas blood and the blood stain patterns do not match her walking through a house full of police officers unseen.

It is much more likely that on their open mic radio sysyem, Collins called one dead female seen through the window, then upon entry they find Ralph and call in one dead male, they then go upstairs and find four bodies, they call in five bodies in total, the information room mistakenly think that two bodies have already been found, wrongly note that a further three bodies are found upstairs instead of four.

I put it to you that my interpretation is a hundred times more plausable than yours.
Would you be able to take the photo's he ask's ?

Offline grahameb

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Re: Sheila did not die, until after 8.10am, in bedroom...
« Reply #29 on: July 25, 2011, 09:02:PM »
Yes, anyway, we know two bodies were not found in the kitchen, it was Nevills body mistaken as a female, as is documented in the firearms units statement.
------------------

No, you are wrong, there were two bodies found downstairs in the kitchen when the police first entered - as evidenced and cross referenced by the contents of the police logs which only report the finding of three further bodies upstairs by 8:10am...

It is this part of the conspiracy where the police made a pigs ear of it, by failing to alter the references to the number of bodies that would have been found upstairs, if there had been some sort of a mix up downstiars involving only one body...

The police put together a cover story to try and account for Sheila's body not originally being found downstairs, but overlooked the importance of establishing that there should have been four bodies found upstairs, instead of only three...

Furthermore...

If Ralph was sat on that chair behind that internal kitchen door, nobody would have been able to see his body there because of the acuteness of the angle to mistakenly identify it as a dead female, I know this to be true because I have been to the window and looked through and the angle is too acute...

To settle this matter once and for all...

Go to WHF, position one of the wooden chairs behind the door in question and sit someone in it. The go out side and take a photograph to prove what can be seen?

Whilst your at it, get somebody to stand outside the kitchen window, whilst somebody who is sat in that chair behind the door takes a photograph showing the angle and view, looking back in the direction of the said kitchen window...

Do it, and prove to me that you are right and I am wrong...

I think you are wrong, doesn't matter how many times you or I repeat ourselves, in order your theory to be correct, not only do we have to discount the various police officers statements, but we also have place Nevill right in the corner, despite the fact he was found in front of the aga. We can go further amd say if Shiela was in the kitchen, then we are missing a bullet case, so you need to introduce another weapon, an air rifle this time, but theres no record of any of Shielas blood and the blood stain patterns do not match her walking through a house full of police officers unseen.

It is much more likely that on their open mic radio sysyem, Collins called one dead female seen through the window, then upon entry they find Ralph and call in one dead male, they then go upstairs and find four bodies, they call in five bodies in total, the information room mistakenly think that two bodies have already been found, wrongly note that a further three bodies are found upstairs instead of four.

I put it to you that my interpretation is a hundred times more plausable than yours.
I don't think so Hartley I think we've read police documents saying that on entry they found one dead female and one dead male?