WPC Julia Jeapes

[snow66!]

Yes exactly - I believe that both Jeapes and Brown did indeed see a rifle.
I also believe that Bews and Myall saw movement in the window.
BUT when the case started to be built against Jeremy then Brown reluctantly accepted the possibility that it was a vacuum cleaner.
I believe Sheila moved that rifle and killed herself with it.
( She had already used that rifle to kill her family and had rested it against that window hoping Jeremy would turn up on his own so she could shoot him from that window with it)
When that room was searched the only thing in it remotely like a rifle was a vacuum cleaner.
This is where the possibility that it was a vacuum cleaner came from.
However as you say Jeapes would not accept that as even remotely possible and refused to change her statement in the way that Brown did.
In those days there was massive pressure on all Officers to "keep a united story"
Jeapes however had more integrity than that.
And yes that's why Jeapes statement was not disclosed.
Bews admits what he and Myalls thought they saw but also tries to make the account fit with the "official" Jeremy is guilty line a bit.

By the way I edited my post to add a bit.
Did you read it all ?

I have read the part about the Bible passage now Sherlock,and yes it seems this may indicate that Sheila washed in an attempt to cleanse her soul before entering heaven.

As for Bews,he was stopped in his tracks talking about the sighting in the window in court,the defence put words in his mouth for some reason,indicating that it was just a trick of the light remember.A strange thing to do indeed.

[sherlock]

I have read the part about the Bible passage now Sherlock,and yes it seems this may indicate that Sheila washed in an attempt to cleanse her soul before entering heaven.

As for Bews,he was stopped in his tracks talking about the sighting in the window in court,the defence put words in his mouth for some reason,indicating that it was just a trick of the light remember.A strange thing to do indeed.

The “key” passage is 14 :

14 Rescue me from the guilt of murder ….

Everybody accepts that Psalm 51 is a plea to God for forgiveness

However different Christian groups differ in their interpretation of Psalm 51 very considerably

This is reflected in the very many different Bible versions that translate it differently

For example many versions of the Bible do not use the word murder in psalm 51 insstead using the phrase blood guilt

Many say blood guilt is not murder but rather a serious sin

This was the belief of Jeremys religious “expert” witness at trial

She should have told the Jury of the alternative translations and versions of the Bible and let the Jury decide

But amazingly she failed to do this

In fact many Christian groups see Psalm 51 to mean this :

Specifically after committing the sin of murder the person should physically ritually wash themselves while focusing in Paalm 51

Jeremys lawyers failed by not having an expert religious witness who was prepared to enlighten the Jury that many Christians interpret Psalm 51 in this way

Hopefully in any appeal they will find a more competent religious expert witness who is aware of this

What’s the odds of the exact page the Bible was open at being a prayer for forgiveness after committing murder ?

Also explains why Sheila appeared to be so physically clean …

[Steve_uk]

The “key” passage is 14 :

14 Rescue me from the guilt of murder ….

Everybody accepts that Psalm 51 is a plea to God for forgiveness

However different Christian groups differ in their interpretation of Psalm 51 very considerably

This is reflected in the very many different Bible versions that translate it differently

For example many versions of the Bible do not use the word murder in psalm 51 insstead using the phrase blood guilt

Many say blood guilt is not murder but rather a serious sin

This was the belief of Jeremys religious “expert” witness at trial

She should have told the Jury of the alternative translations and versions of the Bible and let the Jury decide

But amazingly she failed to do this

In fact many Christian groups see Psalm 51 to mean this :

Specifically after committing the sin of murder the person should physically ritually wash themselves while focusing in Paalm 51

Jeremys lawyers failed by not having an expert religious witness who was prepared to enlighten the Jury that many Christians interpret Psalm 51 in this way

Hopefully in any appeal they will find a more competent religious expert witness who is aware of this

What’s the odds of the exact page the Bible was open at being a prayer for forgiveness after committing murder ?

Also explains why Sheila appeared to be so physically clean …

But the sinner is not going to return to God's grace if she shoots herself. If she washed ritualistically after killing four wouldn't the blood spatter have looked differently than it did?

[snow66!]

The “key” passage is 14 :

14 Rescue me from the guilt of murder ….

Everybody accepts that Psalm 51 is a plea to God for forgiveness

However different Christian groups differ in their interpretation of Psalm 51 very considerably

This is reflected in the very many different Bible versions that translate it differently

For example many versions of the Bible do not use the word murder in psalm 51 insstead using the phrase blood guilt

Many say blood guilt is not murder but rather a serious sin

This was the belief of Jeremys religious “expert” witness at trial

She should have told the Jury of the alternative translations and versions of the Bible and let the Jury decide

But amazingly she failed to do this

In fact many Christian groups see Psalm 51 to mean this :

Specifically after committing the sin of murder the person should physically ritually wash themselves while focusing in Paalm 51

Jeremys lawyers failed by not having an expert religious witness who was prepared to enlighten the Jury that many Christians interpret Psalm 51 in this way

Hopefully in any appeal they will find a more competent religious expert witness who is aware of this

What’s the odds of the exact page the Bible was open at being a prayer for forgiveness after committing murder ?

Also explains why Sheila appeared to be so physically clean …

So you must believe that Sheila had read that passage many times Sherlock,else she would have never found it that morning? And in reading that soecific passage many times,does this mean she may have been contemplating something for quite some time do you think?

I mean,I take it Sheila didn't know the WHOLE Bible outside in surely,?

[Zoso]

With the greatest of respect you appear to be "mis quoting" both of these Police Officers actual words.
They DO NOT say "considered could be a firearm"
WPC Jeapes saw "what appeared to be a rifle"
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1387.msg43051.html#msg43051
P.C Brown saw "what he at first thought was a gun"
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=11565.0;attach=59289
Both statements are available on this forum to confirm these exact words.
Also when Mike Tesco posted Police Officer Julia Jeapes statement on this forum in 2011 he did so under the heading "Non disclosed statement of WPC Julia Jeapes"
Julia Jeapes should not be underestimated for the following reasons.

1) She was a trained firearms instructor
2) Although on this forum we refer to her as WPC Jeapes her statement shows she was a Police Sergeant at the time.
3) She was later promoted to Chief Superintendent - ie one down from assistant Chief Constable.
4) For many years she was Divisional Commander of the entire Chelmsford Division
5) She later became a Councillor and cabinet member for Chelmsford City Council
6) She recently was in the short list of 3 to replace Sir David Amess as MP for Southend West

Personally when somebody like that says " ... in which was what appeared to be a rifle leaning against the window" I tend to believe her especially when another Police Officer corroborates her statement by saying " ...I could see what I at first thought was a gun ...". ..

Including Police Officer Bews and Police Officer Myall who according to Bews both initially thought they saw movement in a window that's 4 Police Officers who initially saw signs of movement of a rifle and/or a person in the farmhouse while Jeremy was outside with the Police.
( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmlWcVBU4f8  - Police Officer Bews states in the first interview that Police Officer Myall initially thought that he saw saw movement and states in the second interview that he also initially thought that he saw movement)

Maybe one Police Officer could have been mistaken - maybe two could have been mistaken - but what are the odds of all 4 Police Officers being mistaken ?

Unless ALL 4 Police Officers were mistaken and actually initially saw something and / or somebody who was not actually there then Jeremy clearly is innocent of shooting his family.

This all comes directly from the mouths of Police Officers who were there at the scene on the night.

But it seems that the Jury were not told about any of these 4 Police Officers sightings during the trial.
2 of the Jury decided the right verdict was not guilty and if you think that other Jury members would not have been swayed by what the 4 Police Officers said that they thought that they initially saw then you do not understand human nature at all.

The only real evidence against Jeremy was Mugford and the silencer "found" by Boutflour and relatives.

If the Jury had been told that Mugford had signed a huge deal pre trial but would only get paid if Jeremy was convicted and that Boutflour and family would inherit a fortune but only if Jeremy had been convicted what do you think they would have thought ?

As for Sheila being clean well it's obvious that she showered and ritually cleaned herself. The passage the Bible was opened at was basically a suicide note including reference to ritually cleaning oneself in order to get closer to God again after committing murder.

There are many different translations of the Bible.
The New English Translation translates Psalm 51 as follows:

Psalm 51

For the music director; a psalm of David, written when Nathan the prophet confronted him after David’s affair with Bathsheba.

1Have mercy on me, O God, because of your loyal love!

Because of your great compassion, wipe away my rebellious acts!

2Wash away my wrongdoing!

Cleanse me of my sin!

3For I am aware of my rebellious acts;

I am forever conscious of my sin.

4Against you – you above all – I have sinned;

I have done what is evil in your sight.

So you are just when you confront me;

you are right when you condemn me.

5Look, I was guilty of sin from birth,

a sinner the moment my mother conceived me.

6Look, you desire integrity in the inner man;

you want me to possess wisdom.

7Sprinkle me with water and I will be pure;

wash me and I will be whiter than snow.

8Grant me the ultimate joy of being forgiven!

May the bones you crushed rejoice!

9Hide your face from my sins!

Wipe away all my guilt!

10Create for me a pure heart, O God!

Renew a resolute spirit within me!

11Do not reject me!

Do not take your Holy Spirit away from me!

12Let me again experience the joy of your deliverance!

Sustain me by giving me the desire to obey!

13Then I will teach rebels your merciful ways,

and sinners will turn to you.

14Rescue me from the guilt of murder, O God, the God who delivers me!

Then my tongue will shout for joy because of your deliverance.

15O Lord, give me the words!

Then my mouth will praise you.

16Certainly you do not want a sacrifice, or else I would offer it;

you do not desire a burnt sacrifice.

17The sacrifices God desires are a humble spirit –

O God, a humble and repentant heart you will not reject.

18Because you favor Zion, do what is good for her!

Fortify the walls of Jerusalem!

19Then you will accept the proper sacrifices, burnt sacrifices and whole offerings;

then bulls will be sacrificed on your altar.

NET Bible copyright © 1996-2006 by Biblical Studies Press, L.L.C. http://netbible.com.


   If Jeremy's lawyers had employed a more knowledgeable expert witness on religion then the Jury would have been told that not all but many Christians interpret that exact Bible passage to mean exactly that.

In my opinion the right option is a re trial for the above reasons.

I wasn't quoting them, I was paraphrasing but neither Jeapes nor Brown were positive they saw a gun and with all respect to Mike, he often posted those kinds of headlines - most people know that. How on earth would Mike have a copy of an undisclosed statement? If it wasn't disclosed, he wouldn't have a copy - don't always believe what you read here.

[sherlock]

But the sinner is not going to return to God's grace if she shoots herself. If she washed ritualistically after killing four wouldn't the blood spatter have looked differently than it did?

I assume Sheila was on an emotional and mental rollercoaster that night.
After committing the murders she sought God's forgiveness using Psalm 51
She would have known that Jeremy was possibly on his way because of the phone call to him
Did she plan to kill Jeremy also ? Did she plan at that stage to kill herself later ?
I really don't know what was in her mind at that stage.
I guess Sheila was in the room with the rifle resting against the window waiting for Jeremy to appear outside possibly to shoot him from the window
When the Police turn up instead of Jeremy she then decides to shoot herself.
Which blood splatters are you referring to ?

[snow66!]

I wasn't quoting them, I was paraphrasing but neither Jeapes nor Brown were positive they saw a gun and with all respect to Mike, he often posted those kinds of headlines - most people know that. How on earth would Mike have a copy of an undisclosed statement? If it wasn't disclosed, he wouldn't have a copy - don't always believe what you read here.

Yes,but of course if the document wasn't disclosed till after the trial,it wasn't much good to Bamber was it Zoso? Mike probably obtained it many years later and found out it had been undisclosed at trial.

[sherlock]

So you must believe that Sheila had read that passage many times Sherlock,else she would have never found it that morning? And in reading that soecific passage many times,does this mean she may have been contemplating something for quite some time do you think?

I mean,I take it Sheila didn't know the WHOLE Bible outside in surely,?

Well the fact that the Bible was open on that page tells me that she was at least familiar with Psalm 51 and it's meaning.
Otherwise the coincidence would be huge.
I think I am right in saying she had discussed thought of killing her children previously with a psychiatrist.
I would not be surprised if she had thought along these lines previously

[snow66!]

I assume Sheila was on an emotional and mental rollercoaster that night.
After committing the murders she sought God's forgiveness using Psalm 51
She would have known that Jeremy was possibly on his way because of the phone call to him
Did she plan to kill Jeremy also ? Did she plan at that stage to kill herself later ?
I really don't know what was in her mind at that stage.
I guess Sheila was in the room with the rifle resting against the window waiting for Jeremy to appear outside possibly to shoot him from the window
When the Police turn up instead of Jeremy she then decides to shoot herself.
Which blood splatters are you referring to ?

Yes,thats another good point Sherlock,if sheila witnessed Nevill phoning JB of course she would have been expecting him to turn up.Never thought about that before.

And yes,the boxroom window looked directly on to the drive where JB would have parked the car and approached the house.

[sherlock]

I wasn't quoting them, I was paraphrasing but neither Jeapes nor Brown were positive they saw a gun and with all respect to Mike, he often posted those kinds of headlines - most people know that. How on earth would Mike have a copy of an undisclosed statement? If it wasn't disclosed, he wouldn't have a copy - don't always believe what you read here.

They both initially thought that they saw a gun
Only Brown changed his opinion later when told by somebody else that it was a vacuum cleaner
They were both very clear based on what they saw that they thought that it was a gun
Maybe Mike can answer on here about what led him to believe it was undisclosed ?
Surely it would have been a major feature at trial had his lawyers been aware of it pre trial ?
Surely Jeaprs and Brown would have been called to answer questions about this ?
They certainly should have been

[Steve_uk]

I assume Sheila was on an emotional and mental rollercoaster that night.
After committing the murders she sought God's forgiveness using Psalm 51
She would have known that Jeremy was possibly on his way because of the phone call to him
Did she plan to kill Jeremy also ? Did she plan at that stage to kill herself later ?
I really don't know what was in her mind at that stage.
I guess Sheila was in the room with the rifle resting against the window waiting for Jeremy to appear outside possibly to shoot him from the window
When the Police turn up instead of Jeremy she then decides to shoot herself.
Which blood splatters are you referring to ?

Well I was thinking of the irregular lines down her arm.

[sherlock]

Yes,thats another good point Sherlock,if sheila witnessed Nevill phoning JB of course she would have been expecting him to turn up.Never thought about that before.

And yes,the boxroom window looked directly on to the drive where JB would have parked the car and approached the house.

When asked in Police interview why Jeremy thought that the phone call had ended so abruptly he replied that it sounded like someone had cut the call ie pressed the receiver down.
I think that there are 2 possibilities.
1) Sheila "caught" Neville making the call and ended the call by pressing the receiver down
2) Sheila had already shot June and Neville and then threatened Neville that she would go back upstairs and finish June off unless Neville phoned Jeremy to get him to attend the farmhouse. As soon as he had said enough to possibly get Jeremy to attend the farm house she then ended the call by pressing the receiver down. Neville probably guessed that Jeremy would call the Police and at that stage that is probably exactly what Neville was hoping that Jeremy would do.
It seems strange that Neville would have ended the call abruptly on his own after only about 11 seconds
I think it very likely that it was Sheila that ended the call abruptly..

[sherlock]

Well I was thinking of the irregular lines down her arm.

Why would the blood splatter look different if she had showered after killing 4 people ?
Unless you think that blood splatter pattern was likely from the previous 4 victims ?
Surely whether Sheila was shot by someone else or shot herself after showering the blood splatter pattern coud have been similar in either case ?

[Adam]

When asked in Police interview why Jeremy thought that the phone call had ended so abruptly he replied that it sounded like someone had cut the call ie pressed the receiver down.
I think that there are 2 possibilities.
1) Sheila "caught" Neville making the call and ended the call by pressing the receiver down
2) Sheila had already shot June and Neville and then threatened Neville that she would go back upstairs and finish June off unless Neville phoned Jeremy to get him to attend the farmhouse. As soon as he had said enough to possibly get Jeremy to attend the farm house she then ended the call by pressing the receiver down. Neville probably guessed that Jeremy would call the Police and at that stage that is probably exactly what Neville was hoping that Jeremy would do.
It seems strange that Neville would have ended the call abruptly on his own after only about 11 seconds
I think it very likely that it was Sheila that ended the call abruptly..

Why didn't Nevill take the rifle off Sheila then?

He was twice as big & strong.

[Adam]

When asked in Police interview why Jeremy thought that the phone call had ended so abruptly he replied that it sounded like someone had cut the call ie pressed the receiver down.
I think that there are 2 possibilities.
1) Sheila "caught" Neville making the call and ended the call by pressing the receiver down
2) Sheila had already shot June and Neville and then threatened Neville that she would go back upstairs and finish June off unless Neville phoned Jeremy to get him to attend the farmhouse. As soon as he had said enough to possibly get Jeremy to attend the farm house she then ended the call by pressing the receiver down. Neville probably guessed that Jeremy would call the Police and at that stage that is probably exactly what Neville was hoping that Jeremy would do.
It seems strange that Neville would have ended the call abruptly on his own after only about 11 seconds
I think it very likely that it was Sheila that ended the call abruptly..

Nevill was shot 4 times in/by his bed. So unable to talk and too late to negotiate.