Author Topic: Two hundred pieces of evidence against Bamber  (Read 14691 times)

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Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Two hundred pieces of evidence against Bamber
« Reply #165 on: July 08, 2022, 09:36:PM »
Oh ok I thought you might know who June approached, I do know that Mr Cock had not been notified, so unless June did contact someone I think we have to assume she was not going to go ahead with this?
June had approached Basil Cock to establish an allowance for her daughter to be paid quarterly. June and Nevill had form when it came to threats of disinheritance, as they had done to effectively end the relationship between Jeremy and Sue Ford.

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Two hundred pieces of evidence against Bamber
« Reply #166 on: July 08, 2022, 09:42:PM »
I guess we all see things differently, to me the crime was an act of pure rage, over the years JB has had many psychological reports and shows no signs of these traits.

As regards the 25 shots they were all at point blank range and into for the most part stationary targets, I think it would be harder to miss.

Finally the phone call, if JB is guilty he can say and do whatever he wants, if he really planned the crime over the last 18 months surely he would simply dial 999? Why does he cast suspicion on himself for no reason?

Sorry I am still a supporter or whatever term you want to use, but thanks for your reply.
But she had to reload twice. It's another pointer to Jeremy being the culprit rather than his sister.

Offline Rob_

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Re: Two hundred pieces of evidence against Bamber
« Reply #167 on: July 08, 2022, 09:44:PM »
MM testimony says -

'A few months before the murders Jeremy had told me her mother was thinking of changing her will in favour of her grandsons, on whom she doted'.

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June was 61 & in good health. So no hurry .Then again after the caravan break in Bamber may have felt there was a hurry.

Yes but you are twisting this to mean JB was going to be completely written out of the will, in which case June would never have told him. I read this as meaning the twins would receive something to be perhaps held in trust until they were 21 or something like this.


Offline Rob_

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Re: Two hundred pieces of evidence against Bamber
« Reply #168 on: July 08, 2022, 09:48:PM »
But she had to reload twice. It's another pointer to Jeremy being the culprit rather than his sister.

Yes I agree Steve the reloading is the main doubt I have regarding Sheila doing the crime. Provided the magazine is not fully loaded say seven or eight bullets it is quite easy to insert them. She started with probably 10 bullets two reloads of seven or eight bullets and this covers her for 25 shots.

Offline snow66!

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Re: Two hundred pieces of evidence against Bamber
« Reply #169 on: July 08, 2022, 09:49:PM »
Hi Killingeve,hope your well this evening.I will try and sum up the phone call issue tonight.
Ok Killingeve,this is my take on the phone calls.Nevill phones pc West first who made a log featuring 'Daughter gone berserk',which he passed on to Bonnet,hence your argument,sender,receiver etc,all true and in order.Then JB phones pc West about ten minutes later,which the log indeed states,3.36,'Sister gone crazy' and so on.Obviously West dosen't pass on JBs call to Bonnet because it is about the same incident and would serve no purpose,things are already underway.Bews and the gang are already leaving for the Whitehouse.So,now West has two logs,one from Nevills call and one from JBs,but only Nevills log is passed on to Bonnet.So,no problem there,West thinks no more about the calls,and the case is treated as murder/suicide,BUT,the relatives are unhappy with the verdict and pester Taff,who has to tell them about Nevills phone call to get them off his back.So they retreat to scratch their heads for a while.But then JBs odd behaviour unfortunately convinces every copper and his wife that he is indeed the culprit.But in order for JB to be guilty,the police conclude that he must have made both calls or had an accomplice which they must have ruled out.Now the police know that JB would have needed to get from the Whitehouse to his cottage pretty quick if he made both calls,his car did not move that night,so this is when their attention falls on Junes bike.They time the routes,but are not too happy with the results,as a result the police decide that it is best to merge Nevill and JBs calls/logs into one and declare to the jury that only JB called the police.This was the best they could do.At trial they still made a big issue about Bamber using the bike however.This was because if West folded under pressure and confessed that he received two calls that night,the prosecution would still try and convince the Jury that JB biked like a madman and made both calls.But of course all went well for the prosecution,especially due to the fact that Bonnets log was not disclosed for comparison.So,I believe Wests original log made from Nevills call will come to light some day,once JB is found innocent.That is if it hasn't been destroyed.Any proof of this work of fiction? No,and yes. No,there isnt a Nevill log in circulation at the moment,and yes,with the disclosure of Bonnets log we can see that the mistakes and differences between the two exieting logs are too great to be from one and the same phone call.Also the mix up with the times and when CAO7 and CA05 were despatched can only be explained by two seperate calls being made.And JB could not have made the two calls,he simply could not have got from the Whitehouse to his cottage in the available time,even on the bike.So,there you are,Nevill did indeed call the police.Bye,bye!

Offline Adam

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Re: Two hundred pieces of evidence against Bamber
« Reply #170 on: July 08, 2022, 09:51:PM »
Yes but you are twisting this to mean JB was going to be completely written out of the will, in which case June would never have told him. I read this as meaning the twins would receive something to be perhaps held in trust until they were 21 or something like this.

Not twisting anything. Just quoted Wilkes book.

As posted earlier, Bamber was in a bad place regarding the wills.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Rob_

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Re: Two hundred pieces of evidence against Bamber
« Reply #171 on: July 08, 2022, 09:54:PM »
Not twisting anything. Just quoted Wilkes book.

As posted earlier, Bamber was in a bad place regarding the wills.

It's twisting it if you say he was going to be completely written out of the will, I see nothing in what MM said that infers this, just that the will be be changed so the twins receive something.

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Two hundred pieces of evidence against Bamber
« Reply #172 on: July 08, 2022, 09:57:PM »
Yes but you are twisting this to mean JB was going to be completely written out of the will, in which case June would never have told him. I read this as meaning the twins would receive something to be perhaps held in trust until they were 21 or something like this.
They would inherit when they became 25 I believe. But don't forget Jeremy was sent away at 7 years old, and Nevill and June may well have wanted to pay the school fees for Nicholas and Daniel at a similar establishment, if only to get them away from Colin, whom they often considered a bad influence.

Offline Adam

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Re: Two hundred pieces of evidence against Bamber
« Reply #173 on: July 08, 2022, 10:00:PM »
It's twisting it if you say he was going to be completely written out of the will, I see nothing in what MM said that infers this, just that the will be be changed so the twins receive something.

I think we both know over time June would have frozen Bamber out.

She was already allocating money to the church & other friends/relatives. The twins would be next.

Bamber was only inheriting June's caravan park shares. The problem would be if Nevill dies first. June then becomes all powerful.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Two hundred pieces of evidence against Bamber
« Reply #174 on: July 08, 2022, 10:00:PM »
Yes I agree Steve the reloading is the main doubt I have regarding Sheila doing the crime. Provided the magazine is not fully loaded say seven or eight bullets it is quite easy to insert them. She started with probably 10 bullets two reloads of seven or eight bullets and this covers her for 25 shots.
The problem is she would have to know where the ammunition was kept. It always looked to me as if the scene of the bullets on the blue and white chequered worktop by the telephone was staged. If they were there at the time Jeremy claimed, namely when he hastily tipped them out in the search for rabbits, then June would have cleared them away after she had finished speaking to Pamela on the telephone later that evening.

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Two hundred pieces of evidence against Bamber
« Reply #175 on: July 08, 2022, 10:03:PM »
Ok Killingeve,this is my take on the phone calls.Nevill phones pc West first who made a log featuring 'Daughter gone berserk',which he passed on to Bonnet,hence your argument,sender,receiver etc,all true and in order.Then JB phones pc West about ten minutes later,which the log indeed states,3.36,'Sister gone crazy' and so on.Obviously West dosen't pass on JBs call to Bonnet because it is about the same incident and would serve no purpose,things are already underway.Bews and the gang are already leaving for the Whitehouse.So,now West has two logs,one from Nevills call and one from JBs,but only Nevills log is passed on to Bonnet.So,no problem there,West thinks no more about the calls,and the case is treated as murder/suicide,BUT,the relatives are unhappy with the verdict and pester Taff,who has to tell them about Nevills phone call to get them off his back.So they retreat to scratch their heads for a while.But then JBs odd behaviour unfortunately convinces every copper and his wife that he is indeed the culprit.But in order for JB to be guilty,the police conclude that he must have made both calls or had an accomplice which they must have ruled out.Now the police know that JB would have needed to get from the Whitehouse to his cottage pretty quick if he made both calls,his car did not move that night,so this is when their attention falls on Junes bike.They time the routes,but are not too happy with the results,as a result the police decide that it is best to merge Nevill and JBs calls/logs into one and declare to the jury that only JB called the police.This was the best they could do.At trial they still made a big issue about Bamber using the bike however.This was because if West folded under pressure and confessed that he received two calls that night,the prosecution would still try and convince the Jury that JB biked like a madman and made both calls.But of course all went well for the prosecution,especially due to the fact that Bonnets log was not disclosed for comparison.So,I believe Wests original log made from Nevills call will come to light some day,once JB is found innocent.That is if it hasn't been destroyed.Any proof of this work of fiction? No,and yes. No,there isnt a Nevill log in circulation at the moment,and yes,with the disclosure of Bonnets log we can see that the mistakes and differences between the two exieting logs are too great to be from one and the same phone call.Also the mix up with the times and when CAO7 and CA05 were despatched can only be explained by two seperate calls being made.And JB could not have made the two calls,he simply could not have got from the Whitehouse to his cottage in the available time,even on the bike.So,there you are,Nevill did indeed call the police.Bye,bye!
But Jeremy had already claimed he received a telephone call from Nevill that first Wednesday 7th August, so the relatives would have known about this claim then. I don't understand your timeline.

Offline Rob_

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Re: Two hundred pieces of evidence against Bamber
« Reply #176 on: July 08, 2022, 10:07:PM »
The problem is she would have to know where the ammunition was kept. It always looked to me as if the scene of the bullets on the blue and white chequered worktop by the telephone was staged. If they were there at the time Jeremy claimed, namely when he hastily tipped them out in the search for rabbits, then June would have cleared them away after she had finished speaking to Pamela on the telephone later that evening.

Yes a good point Steve I, I have always assumed Sheila knew where the bullets were kept and just chucked a box on the worktop. If JB was staging the crime scene to this extent would he have fired so many shots? He could have used one or two on each of the twins maybe four on June and the rest on Nevil with no reloads?

Offline Adam

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Re: Two hundred pieces of evidence against Bamber
« Reply #177 on: July 08, 2022, 10:11:PM »
A best case scenario would be if -

June dies first, within 10 years. Bamber inherits her caravan park shares. Bamber had somehow avoided being frozen out.

Nevill dies a couple of years later. Leaving the farm to Sheila & Bamber. The twins not included.

This would still mean having to work on the farm for another 10+ years. Then share his inheritance, which would be reducing due to the expense of paying for Sheila & the twins.

The alternatives would be too much for him to bear.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Two hundred pieces of evidence against Bamber
« Reply #178 on: July 08, 2022, 10:11:PM »
Yes a good point Steve I, I have always assumed Sheila knew where the bullets were kept and just chucked a box on the worktop. If JB was staging the crime scene to this extent would he have fired so many shots? He could have used one or two on each of the twins maybe four on June and the rest on Nevil with no reloads?
Well again we come to the point Adam made earlier, namely that the gun was used for vermin and Jeremy couldn't possibly know how many bullets he would need to ensure death for all victims.

Offline Adam

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Re: Two hundred pieces of evidence against Bamber
« Reply #179 on: July 08, 2022, 10:15:PM »
A best case scenario would be if -

June dies first, within 10 years. Bamber inherits her caravan park shares. Bamber had somehow avoided being frozen out.

Nevill dies a couple of years later. Leaving the farm to Sheila & Bamber. The twins not included.

This would still mean having to work on the farm for another 10+ years. Then share his inheritance, which would be reducing due to the expense of paying for Sheila & the twins.

The alternatives would be too much for him to bear.

These are of course -

Nevill/June living another 20 years.

Nevill dying first & leaving everything with June.

Or both!
« Last Edit: July 08, 2022, 10:17:PM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.