Essex police suspected relatives of trying to frame Jeremy for the murders?

[mike tesko]

Essex police suspected relatives of trying to frame Jeremy for the murders?

Yes, by late September 1985, Essex police suspected the relatives of trying to frame Jeremy for the murders - including for the possibility that the relatives put blood into the silencer that originated from Sheila. So much so, that police asked relatives for samples of their blood so that they could check to see if any of them had the same blood group activity as Sheila, and whether or not the blood could have originated from one of the relatives?

[Roch]

But how would that fit in with the police being in cahoots with any of the relatives?  It's Cook who has assigned the job.

[Steve A]

Would they not have taken these blood samples anyway, to eliminate them?

[grahameb]

Would they not have taken these blood samples anyway, to eliminate them?

But it appears that Robert Boutflour had the same blood group as Sheila? That should have eliminated the silencer as evidence immediately. But it appears that the police played along with the relatives for some reason?

[Steve A]

Would they not have taken these blood samples anyway, to eliminate them?

But it appears that Robert Boutflour had the same blood group as Sheila? That should have eliminated the silencer as evidence immediately. But it appears that the police played along with the relatives for some reason?

It should have been highlighted and taken into account, rather than dismissed as evidence.

What I'm struggling with here is that there are no doubt lots of people with the same blood groupings, but how many of us know all the 'AKs' and 'HPs' etc. I think that it's more likely a coincidence that the blood groupings are the same, I don't think that the relatives would know all the different enzymes in each of their blood in order to exactly match that of Sheila's, nor would they be in the know about what tests forensics could actually carry out.

Doesn't add up to me.

[Roch]

Would they not have taken these blood samples anyway, to eliminate them?

If we follow a line where Cook is involved in fabrication, surely this result would have been a huge disappointment? I'm just not sure what to make of it.  Was this document withheld?  If so, that might ptovide a clue in itself.  Anything withheld is effectively something that has been suppressed?

[smiffy]

By claiming to suspect the relatives of planting blood in the silencer then the EP officers concerned (primarily Cook) divert the issue of who planted the blood away from themselves.
In my view there seemed to be far too much blood inside the silencer than would make sense for backsplatter with a .22 rifle. This is probably something the officers concerned were also wary of so pre-empting suspicion falling on them should this fabrication come to light it would be best to suggest the possibility of fabrication by relatives first.

[Steve A]

By claiming to suspect the relatives of planting blood in the silencer then the EP officers concerned (primarily Cook) divert the issue of who planted the blood away from themselves.
In my view there seemed to be far too much blood inside the silencer than would make sense for backsplatter with a .22 rifle. This is probably something the officers concerned were also wary of so pre-empting suspicion falling on them should this fabrication come to light it would be best to suggest the possibility of fabrication by relatives first.

I don't think the police have claimed that they thought the relatives planted blood. I would be more concerned if the relatives blood was not tested.

Rochford makes a good point though, if this information has been withheld (I don't know if it was) then that would set some alarm bells ringing in my opinion.

[smiffy]

By claiming to suspect the relatives of planting blood in the silencer then the EP officers concerned (primarily Cook) divert the issue of who planted the blood away from themselves.
In my view there seemed to be far too much blood inside the silencer than would make sense for backsplatter with a .22 rifle. This is probably something the officers concerned were also wary of so pre-empting suspicion falling on them should this fabrication come to light it would be best to suggest the possibility of fabrication by relatives first.

I don't think the police have claimed that they thought the relatives planted blood. I would be more concerned if the relatives blood was not tested.

Rochford makes a good point though, if this information has been withheld (I don't know if it was) then that would set some alarm bells ringing in my opinion.

The reason for the testing implies a line of thought that those who had been in possesion of the silencer may have planted the blood. Otherwise the testing would make no sense. Remember 7 police officers had looked in that  gun cupboard and looked in the 2 boxes and noticed .22 ammunition and shotgun ammunition but somehow did not see any silencer or telescopic sight which is a bit incredible.
When the relatives give a very dodgy story(constantly changing and contradictory) to have found the silencer and sight in one of those two boxes that were examined it leaves the relatives rather exposed to accusations of falsifying evidence and any police officers linked to it.

[Steve A]

The reason for the testing implies a line of thought that those who had been in possesion of the silencer may have planted the blood. Otherwise the testing would make no sense.

I don't really see it that way though. I see it as the relatives being tested, is to strengthen or weaken the chances of the blood belonging to Sheila, nothing more than that.

On the other hand though, as the relatives were somewhat hell bent on putting Jeremy in the frame from early on for whatever reason, perhaps you are right and the police were just covering all the angles to make sure they weren't being duped?

[smiffy]

The reason for the testing implies a line of thought that those who had been in possesion of the silencer may have planted the blood. Otherwise the testing would make no sense.

I don't really see it that way though. I see it as the relatives being tested, is to strengthen or weaken the chances of the blood belonging to Sheila, nothing more than that.

On the other hand though, as the relatives were somewhat hell bent on putting Jeremy in the frame from early on for whatever reason, perhaps you are right and the police were just covering all the angles to make sure they weren't being duped?

Blood group testing only goes so far... In reality the blood in the silencer could have come from anyone with the correct blood group for that found providing the tests were conducted correctly and properly assessed. DNA tests since show the tests were inadequate.


why select the relatives...some silly strengthen or weaken it being Sheila's blood...how..? why select just the relatives...why not everyon in the uk or local area... The relatives needed to be checked as they had possession of the silencer (claimed to have it)and a motive to frame JB....and could not be trusted as their many many lies show.

[Steve A]

The reason for the testing implies a line of thought that those who had been in possesion of the silencer may have planted the blood. Otherwise the testing would make no sense.

I don't really see it that way though. I see it as the relatives being tested, is to strengthen or weaken the chances of the blood belonging to Sheila, nothing more than that.

On the other hand though, as the relatives were somewhat hell bent on putting Jeremy in the frame from early on for whatever reason, perhaps you are right and the police were just covering all the angles to make sure they weren't being duped?

Blood group testing only goes so far... In reality the blood in the silencer could have come from anyone with the correct blood group for that found providing the tests were conducted correctly and properly assessed. DNA tests since show the tests were inadequate.


why select the relatives...some silly strengthen or weaken it being Sheila's blood...how..? why select just the relatives...why not everyon in the uk or local area... The relatives needed to be checked as they had possession of the silencer (claimed to have it)and a motive to frame JB....and could not be trusted as their many many lies show.

Well yes, they were obviously tested because they had access to the item, everyone else in the country did not.

Wasn't it also suggested that the blood in the silencer could have been a mixture of more than one persons blood and or animal blood therefore potentially giving false grouping readings?

[smiffy]

the blood testing was very much mickey mouse level it seems and not very well carried out.

it could well have been a mixture ...the results were dubious.

[curiousessex]

Essex police suspected relatives of trying to frame Jeremy for the murders?

Yes, by late September 1985, Essex police suspected the relatives of trying to frame Jeremy for the murders - including for the possibility that the relatives put blood into the silencer that originated from Sheila. So much so, that police asked relatives for samples of their blood so that they could check to see if any of them had the same blood group activity as Sheila, and whether or not the blood could have originated from one of the relatives?

The date of the document request is 19th September 1986 so it is incorrect and untrue to state and detail - 'Yes, by late September 1985, Essex police suspected the relatives of trying to frame Jeremy for the murders - including for the possibility that the relatives put blood into the silencer that originated from Sheila. ...'

[Steve A]

Essex police suspected relatives of trying to frame Jeremy for the murders?

Yes, by late September 1985, Essex police suspected the relatives of trying to frame Jeremy for the murders - including for the possibility that the relatives put blood into the silencer that originated from Sheila. So much so, that police asked relatives for samples of their blood so that they could check to see if any of them had the same blood group activity as Sheila, and whether or not the blood could have originated from one of the relatives?

The date of the document request is 19th September 1986 so it is incorrect and untrue to state and detail - 'Yes, by late September 1985, Essex police suspected the relatives of trying to frame Jeremy for the murders - including for the possibility that the relatives put blood into the silencer that originated from Sheila. ...'

Yes that seems a bit naughty. Maybe it was simply a genuine mistake though.