The End for The Empire of Lies

[gringo]

The situation is more complicated than you make out. https://www.pekingnology.com/p/who-really-owns-huawei-a-response

    A little more from the "Who really owns Huawei" article;

The authors acknowledged that there is not enough information to give a clear answer. But they still make a bold assumption: given the close relationship between Chinese trade unions and the government, and the fact that Huawei's trade union committee holds more than 99% of the shares of Huawei Holdings, it is reasonable to assume that Huawei is a state-controlled or even state-owned enterprise. [5]

     So despite claiming that there is not enough information to give a clear answer, the authors went on to make a very bold assumption. That assumption is based on such loose logic as an alleged "close relationship" between "Chinese trade unions and the government" plus the fact of Huawei's trade union committee holding 99% of shares in the holding company then this leads to the conclusion that "it is reasonable to assume that Huawei is a state-controlled or even state-owned enterprise."
     How does any of that reasonably lead to those conclusions. Dishonest articles such as the one you linked, have no intention of answering the question they pose as a heading. They want to show that Huawei isn't worker owned and ignore evidence and take great leaps of logic with the little they do use. There is zero chance that they would have ever come to the opposite conclusion. They weren't attempting to answer they pose honestly, but only to cast shade and doubt.
     You still posting that article despite the matter of record share out of nearly 10 billion dollars demonstrates that you also are uninterested in any truth that interferes with your world view. As a matter of fact and record, the articles conclusions are thoroughly debunked by subsequent events but your bias prevents you from acknowledging this.

[Steve_uk]

    A little more from the "Who really owns Huawei" article;

The authors acknowledged that there is not enough information to give a clear answer. But they still make a bold assumption: given the close relationship between Chinese trade unions and the government, and the fact that Huawei's trade union committee holds more than 99% of the shares of Huawei Holdings, it is reasonable to assume that Huawei is a state-controlled or even state-owned enterprise. [5]

     So despite claiming that there is not enough information to give a clear answer, the authors went on to make a very bold assumption. That assumption is based on such loose logic as an alleged "close relationship" between "Chinese trade unions and the government" plus the fact of Huawei's trade union committee holding 99% of shares in the holding company then this leads to the conclusion that "it is reasonable to assume that Huawei is a state-controlled or even state-owned enterprise."
     How does any of that reasonably lead to those conclusions. Dishonest articles such as the one you linked, have no intention of answering the question they pose as a heading. They want to show that Huawei isn't worker owned and ignore evidence and take great leaps of logic with the little they do use. There is zero chance that they would have ever come to the opposite conclusion. They weren't attempting to answer they pose honestly, but only to cast shade and doubt.
    You still posting that article despite the matter of record share out of nearly 10 billion dollars demonstrates that you also are uninterested in any truth that interferes with your world view. As a matter of fact and record, the articles conclusions are thoroughly debunked by subsequent events but your bias prevents you from acknowledging this.

I'm not really. This is a discussion forum and I welcome all views, with the proviso that once posted members have a right to challenge them. You wouldn't get a Trump-like figure emerging in China now, would you?

[gringo]

I'm not really. This is a discussion forum and I welcome all views, with the proviso that once posted members have a right to challenge them. You wouldn't get a Trump-like figure emerging in China now, would you?

     I would say it is next to impossible for a figure anything like any western politician emerging in China, Steve. Western self styled "democracies" have been well and truly exposed as a complete sham in that they don't answer in any meaningful way to those they serve.
     I don't disagree that all views are welcome, with the proviso of a right to challenge. You challenged my statement of worker ownership of Huawei and I challenged your challenge. The authors of the article would not repeat their conclusions now however, in light of subsequent events. It is now beyond doubt that the aspersions cast on Huawei ownership by those authors have been proven to be incorrect. The huge dividend payout and share out puts to bed any question of who the owners are.

[Steve_uk]

     I would say it is next to impossible for a figure anything like any western politician emerging in China, Steve. Western self styled "democracies" have been well and truly exposed as a complete sham in that they don't answer in any meaningful way to those they serve.
     I don't disagree that all views are welcome, with the proviso of a right to challenge. You challenged my statement of worker ownership of Huawei and I challenged your challenge. The authors of the article would not repeat their conclusions now however, in light of subsequent events. It is now beyond doubt that the aspersions cast on Huawei ownership by those authors have been proven to be incorrect. The huge dividend payout and share out puts to bed any question of who the owners are.

The USA has the presidential primary or caucus system, which will be held early next year. It's far more democratic than anything China has post-1949. As for Huawei, it's a trojan horse, which is why the firm has been banned from operating in so many countries.

[gringo]

The USA has the presidential primary or caucus system, which will be held early next year. It's far more democratic than anything China has post-1949. As for Huawei, it's a trojan horse, which is why the firm has been banned from operating in so many countries.

    The USA system of democracy has unfortunately become corrupted by so much dark money that it no longer works. Both parties answer to outside financial and corporate interests not the people. This is surely plain for all to see. Huawei has only been banned in western NATO aligned nations. The Snowden revelations (Vault 7), which led to the Guardian offices being visited by MI6 and staff forced to smash the hard drives in their offices, revealed that US intel agencies had "back doors" into Apple, Microsoft and all western Tech companies. The collaboration and spying by our intel agencies via all these means was exposed by the leaked files. It was massive and pervasive.
      The reason for the Huawei ban is not because of Chinese spying, it is because our intel agencies would lose some of their own ability to surveil their own populace. Vault 7 revelations do prove this conclusively, Steve.
      You should ask yourself, Steve, how come the media and government figures are apparently worried about supposed Chinese spying that is based on nothing more than suspicion and innuendo but ignore the hard unequivocal evidence that it is our own intel services spying on us. What have you read or what do you know about Vault 7?

[gringo]

       A basic primer from Wikipedia;

Vault 7 is a series of documents that WikiLeaks began to publish on 7 March 2017, detailing the activities and capabilities of the United States Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) to perform electronic surveillance and cyber warfare. The files, dating from 2013 to 2016, include details on the agency's software capabilities, such as the ability to compromise cars, smart TVs,[1] web browsers (including Google Chrome, Microsoft Edge, Mozilla Firefox, and Opera),[2][3] and the operating systems of most smartphones (including Apple's iOS and Google's Android), as well as other operating systems such as Microsoft Windows, macOS, and Linux.[4][5] A CIA internal audit identified 91 malware tools out of more than 500 tools in use in 2016 being compromised by the release.[6] The tools were developed by the Operations Support Branch of the C.I.A.[7]

The release of Vault 7 led the CIA to redefine WikiLeaks as a “non-state hostile intelligence service.”[8] In July 2022 former CIA software engineer Joshua Schulte was convicted of leaking the documents to WikiLeaks.

     And your worried about Huawei because the people doing the above told you so? Have a word with yourself 

[Steve_uk]

       A basic primer from Wikipedia;

Vault 7 is a series of documents that WikiLeaks began to publish on 7 March 2017, detailing the activities and capabilities of the United States Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) to perform electronic surveillance and cyber warfare. The files, dating from 2013 to 2016, include details on the agency's software capabilities, such as the ability to compromise cars, smart TVs,[1] web browsers (including Google Chrome, Microsoft Edge, Mozilla Firefox, and Opera),[2][3] and the operating systems of most smartphones (including Apple's iOS and Google's Android), as well as other operating systems such as Microsoft Windows, macOS, and Linux.[4][5] A CIA internal audit identified 91 malware tools out of more than 500 tools in use in 2016 being compromised by the release.[6] The tools were developed by the Operations Support Branch of the C.I.A.[7]

The release of Vault 7 led the CIA to redefine WikiLeaks as a “non-state hostile intelligence service.”[8] In July 2022 former CIA software engineer Joshua Schulte was convicted of leaking the documents to WikiLeaks.

     And your worried about Huawei because the people doing the above told you so? Have a word with yourself

I'm worried that posting sensitive documents willy-nilly à la Julian Assange may pose a danger to those servicemen and servicewomen abroad acting on our behalf to help keep our streets safer from radical Islamic terrorism, to name but one menace.

[gringo]

I'm worried that posting sensitive documents willy-nilly à la Julian Assange may pose a danger to those servicemen and servicewomen abroad acting on our behalf to help keep our streets safer from radical Islamic terrorism, to name but one menace.

    Which is, coincidentally, exactly the thing you have been instructed to be worried about by the same agencies who are spying and have the ability "to compromise cars, smart TVs,[1] web browsers (including Google Chrome, Microsoft Edge, Mozilla Firefox, and Opera),[2][3] and the operating systems of most smartphones (including Apple's iOS and Google's Android), as well as other operating systems such as Microsoft Windows, macOS, and Linux"

      There is zero evidence that any serviceman/woman was harmed or put in danger by these releases. The public interest served by revealing the mass illegal surveillance by intel agencies far outweighs any harm anyway. You should be more concerned with the implications of such pervasive surveillance and control by intelligence agencies. You are "worried" by those people who whistleblew on the illegal and totalitarian actions against you and completely unperturbed by the revelations and the implications of those. You have "Stockholm Syndrome".

[gringo]

   Peter Lavelle accurately sums up where we are;

  "Any western claim to moral superiority has come to an end. It is aiding and abetting genocide in Gaza. An era has come to an end. The west no longer has anything relevant to say to the world. 500 years of hegemony is over." [/b]

 

[gringo]

    The conclusion of the essay (copied below) to begin this thread a year and a half ago. I re-read the whole essay earlier and it stands up pretty well 18/19 months later;


   "Russia, China and the multipolar world order have won, the Great Resetters have been reset. It will take time for the aftermath and consequences of the overturning of the western system to fully unravel but there can be little doubt that western financial power and sanctions regimes are being rendered null and void by the moves in currency and commodity trading backed by China/Russia. Western military might has been exposed as incapable of taking on anything other than small weak defenceless countries(and still get beat).
     The propaganda arm (the media) having to work overtime to hide the failures mentioned above and as a consequence, merely helping along their own discrediting amongst even the usually unquestioning. Like the boy who cried wolf, in the end everyone just assumes he is lying. Our media have cried wolf way too often and shown too few wolves to be believed. People who usually ask no questions, suddenly are. As the moves in the world financial system start to impact more and more people's everyday lives then even more will ask questions. The usual lies will not pass muster at this point.
     The old World Order is dead/dying. Exposed as pirates and thieves to the rest of the world. Goodbye Empire of Lies."
     

[Steve_uk]

   Peter Lavelle accurately sums up where we are;

  "Any western claim to moral superiority has come to an end. It is aiding and abetting genocide in Gaza. An era has come to an end. The west no longer has anything relevant to say to the world. 500 years of hegemony is over." [/b]

 

From Wikipedia:

Peter John Lavelle (born February 28, 1961) is an American journalist and host of CrossTalk, a political talk show on the English-language TV channel RT, which is controlled by the Russian state.