Author Topic: 'IT'S NOW OFFICIAL' - COPS knew about the silencer [7th - 9th August 1985] *****  (Read 3440 times)

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Offline mike tesko

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'DS JONES' told the 'COLP' Investigation [1991], that when both 'he' and `DCI JONES' went to see 'Jeremy' at his home on the evening of '9th August 1985', that they knew about the existence of a silencer [`SBJ/1'] taken from the farmhouse previously!

(this refers to the silencer that 'DS Jones' collected from the crime scene [`exhibit 'SBJ/1'], on the '7th August 1985' and which 'DCI JONES' had instructed 'him' to take 'it' back to his office at 'Witham police station' and leave 'it' on his table and he would deal with it when 'he came back on duty' , or 'return to his office'..
« Last Edit: March 21, 2022, 04:10:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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If 'JONES'  and 'JONES', knew about one of the Silencers ('SBJ/1') at the time of their visit to 'Jeremy Bambers' cottage at '9 Head Street' on the evening of the 9th August 1985, then how could it be possible that relatives brought the existence of a silencer as possibly having been used during the shootings,  which was not brought to the attention of the police by 'the relatives', until the '12th August 1985'?

'HOW could' JONES' and 'JONES' (from as early as, the evening of the '9th August 1985') know about a silencer taken from the scene, on the occasion [10th August 1985] it is claimed that the only silencer found, seized, or recovered from the crime scene was the one which the relatives had found, and taken possession of a day afterwards, and not mentioned to police until three days later...

Further, the police and relatives 'script', 'was' , 'is' that 'DS JONES' visited the relatives on the evening of the 12th August 1985, to collect 'a silencer the relatives had taken possession of two days earlier [10th August 1985]?

It therefore, becomes' self-evident, that just prior to 'DI COOK' taking 'one of them' to the Lab' at 'HUNTINGDON' on the '13th August 1985', that 'COPS' already had 'two Silencers' in their possession, at 'that stage' [`SBJ/1' and 'the second Silencer' handed over to police by 'PETER EATON' on the '12th August 1985'] ..
« Last Edit: March 21, 2022, 04:36:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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If 'JONES'  and 'JONES', knew about one of the Silencers ('SBJ/1') at the time of their visit to 'Jeremy Bambers' cottage at '9 Head Street' on the evening of the 9th August 1985, then how could it be possible that relatives brought the existence of a silencer as possibly having been used during the shootings,  which was not brought to the attention of the police by 'the relatives', until the '12th August 1985'?

'HOW could' JONES' and 'JONES' (from as early as, the evening of the '9th August 1985') know about a silencer taken from the scene, on the occasion [10th August 1985] it is claimed that the only silencer found, seized, or recovered from the crime scene was the one which the relatives had found, and taken possession of a day afterwards, and not mentioned to police until three days later...

Further, the police and relatives 'script', 'was' , 'is' that 'DS JONES' visited the relatives on the evening of the 12th August 1985, to collect 'a silencer the relatives had taken possession of two days earlier [10th August 1985]?

It therefore, becomes' self-evident, that just prior to 'DI COOK' taking 'one of them' to the Lab' at 'HUNTINGDON' on the '13th August 1985', that 'COPS' already had 'two Silencers' in their possession, at 'that stage' [`SBJ/1' and 'the second Silencer' handed over to police by 'PETER EATON' on the '12th August 1985'] ..

The silencer 'SBJ/1' which 'COOK' took to the lab' at 'HUNTINGDON' on the 13th August 1985' was not the same silencer [`DB/1'] which 'DAVID BOUTFLOUR' ('DB') collected from inside the farmhouse on the 10th August 1985, and to which, on the evening of the '12th August 1985, that' DS JONES' had attended the home of the 'Eaton dwelling' to take possession of the second [now known to have been designated exhibit reference, 'DB/1'] SILENCER..

'Ok', so 'Which of these two different silencers' was ' the silencer' whch 'Di Cook' had taken to the Lab' at 'HUNTINGDON' on the '13th August 1985'?

'SBJ/1' [item 22] or 'DB/1' [item 23]..
« Last Edit: March 22, 2022, 02:12:AM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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The silencer 'SBJ/1' which 'COOK' took to the lab' at 'HUNTINGDON' on the 13th August 1985' was not the same silencer [`DB/1'] which 'DAVID BOUTFLOUR' ('DB') collected from inside the farmhouse on the 10th August 1985, and to which, on the evening of the '12th August 1985, that' DS JONES' had attended the home of the 'Eaton dwelling' to take possession of the second [now known to have been designated exhibit reference, 'DB/1'] SILENCER..

'Ok', so 'Which of these two different silencers' was ' the silencer' whch 'Di Cook' had taken to the Lab' at 'HUNTINGDON' on the '13th August 1985'?

'SBJ/1' [item 22]or 'DB/1' [item 23]..

A silencer bearing exhibit reference 'SBJ/1' (item 22) was taken to the lab' at 'HUNTINGDON' on the '13th August 1985'. On a separate occasion [`30th August 1985 '] another,' DB/1' (item 23) silencer, was submitted to the same lab'...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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A silencer bearing exhibit reference 'SBJ/1' (item 22) was taken to the lab' at 'HUNTINGDON' on the '13th August 1985'. On a separate occasion [`30th August 1985 '] another,' DB/1' (item 23) silencer, was submitted to the same lab'...

Silencer 'SBJ/1' (item 22) and 'DB/1' (item 23) were not one and the same silencer(s)..
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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Silencer 'SBJ/1' (item 22) and 'DB/1' (item 23) were not one and the same silencer(s)..

There were physical differences between one of the Silencers `SBJ/1' (item 22), and the other silencer, 'DB/1'(item 23), in the 'external' and 'internal design features' which 'I shall now expound upon'...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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There were physical differences between one of the Silencers `SBJ/1' (item 22), and the other silencer, 'DB/1'(item 23), in the 'external' and 'internal design features' which 'I shall now expound upon'...

The two Silencers [`SBJ/1'] `item 22' (SC/688/85) and ['DB/1'] `item 23' (SC/786/85) which 'lies at the heart of this matter' were owned by 'Neville Bamber' and `Anthony Pargeter'

One of 'these two Silencers' was 'longer in length', than 'the other'...

One of these two Silencers, had different grooves around the outside surface of the silencer casing!

One of these two Silencers, had more 'internal baffle plates, than the other one!

One of these two silencers (APPARENTLY) had stuck onto the metallic end-cap, a solitary grey coloured hair, however and but, such an hair was absent from the other!

One of these two different silencers, had an' elongated scratch mark' measuring about 'one and a half inches' in 'length' along 'the outer surface of its outer casing' whilst 'such an elongated scratch mark' was 'not present upon the other one' ...
« Last Edit: March 21, 2022, 05:48:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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Remember, what 'DS JONES' told the 'COLP' Investigation (1991) that on the evening of the '9th August 1985' when both 'he' and 'DCI JONES' went to speak to 'Jeremy' at his cottage [9 Head Street, Goldhanger], and please pay attention to what 'DS JONES' told the 'COLP' investigators...

'DURING THE QUESTIONING', 'DCI JONES' discussed the 'SILENCER' adding, 'I THINK I WAS AWARE OF THE SILENCER' having been discussed 'PREVIOUSLY'...
« Last Edit: March 22, 2022, 01:16:AM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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Remember, what 'DS JONES' told the 'COLP' Investigation (1991) that on the evening of the '9th August 1985' when both 'he' and 'DCI JONES' went to speak to 'Jeremy' at his cottage [9 Head Street, Goldhanger], and please pay attention to what 'DS JONES' told the 'COLP' investigators...

'DURING THE QUESTIONING', 'DCI JONES' discussed the 'SILENCER' adding, 'I THINK I WAS AWARE OF THE SILENCER' having been discussed 'PREVIOUSLY'...

7th August 1985

'DS JONES' returns to crime scene and collects 4 pieces of evidence [exhibits 'SBJ/1', 'SBJ/2', 'SBJ/3', and 'SBJ/4']. Exhibit 'SBJ/1'[item 22] belonging to 'Pargeter  (. 22 BRNO bolt-action rifle 'silencer') which was purchased by 'Anthony Pargeter' in '1980', which had 17 internalised metal baffle plates [ this later became exhibit 'DRB/1' when it was sent to the lab' on the '20th September 1985', to which experts at the lab' allocated blood group evidence to it, which was associated to a 2nd silencer ['DB/1'] 'item 23', which 'David Boutflour' claimed to have found inside a cupboard in a downstairs office of the farmhouse, on the '10th August 1985'...
« Last Edit: March 22, 2022, 01:18:AM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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The recovery of the 2nd silencer [`DB/1'] 'item 23', by 'David Boutflour' from the crime scene, on the 10th August 1985, was not accidentally stumbled upon. 'Relatives' including 'Anthony Pargeter, had been colluding together since the day of the shootings and all in the belief, that' Sheila' was not capable of having shot dead four members of her own family. They said, she didn't know one end of a gun from the other. On the 9th August 1985, relatives did not know which weapon had been used to kill everyone. However,  'Anthony Pargeter' became worried that his. 22 bolt action rifle could or may have been used in the shootings. He kept his weapon in the Downtairs bathroom, together with gun accessories, and a variety of. 22 type ammunitions. WHEREAS, weapons, accessories and . 22 ammunition belonging to the 'Bamber'. 22 semi-automatic weapon was normally kept in a gun cupboard in a downstairs office. Police had already acknowledged that they had seized weapons, and ammunition found at the scene on the first morning of the murder / suicide investigation. What the relatives did not know was which weapon had been used.

It was for these reasons that 'David Boutflour' and his sister (Ann Eaton) went to the farmhouse on the 10th August 1985, with a view to discovering what if any weapons accessories, and ammunitions, had not been seized by police...

Acting upon Information provided to them by 'Anthony Pargeter' one of the main priorities was to check out and search in the gun cupboard in the downstairs office where the 'Bamber' family kept their weapons and equipment. Hence, why 'David  Boutllkflour' searched the aforementioned gun cupboard. He subsequently took possession of the silencer belonging to the 'Bamber' family rifle'. Whilst there in the farmhouse, he also searched the downstairs bathroom looking for 'Anthony Pargeters'  . 22 bolt action rifle and his silencer (they were missing) leading him to suspect that police had taken it as part of their investigation..
« Last Edit: March 22, 2022, 02:16:AM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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'Anthony Pargeter' kept his firearms, gun accessories and 'his' 17 baffled Parker Hale 'SILENCER' inside the 'DOWNSTAIRS BATHROOM'
« Last Edit: March 22, 2022, 02:55:AM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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Police logs compiled by uniform officers at the crime scene [7th August 1985], confirm that 'DS JONES' did return to the 'FARM' after having earlier left the scene, in the company of 'DC Clark' to go with 'Jeremy Bamber' back to his cottage [`9 HEAD STREET'] in Order to obtain ' a first witness Statement' (7th August 1985)! from' him'. 'YET' when 'JONES' was questioned by 'COLP' (in 1991)regarding this matter, 'DS JONES' denied having any recollection of returning to the scene after he had left white House Farm with 'DC CLARK' and 'Jeremy Bamber'...
'DAMNING POLICE LOGS'..
(7th August 1985)

'DC CLARK , - I am at 9 Head Street, Goldhanger ( home address of 'Jeremy Bamber') taking a statement. Please ask 'DS JONES'  at the scene to phone me Goldhanger 88645  - 12.20pm

i/r - - message above passed - 12.22pm















« Last Edit: April 06, 2022, 02:49:AM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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As can 'now be proven beyond reasonable doubt', that 'DS JONES' did originally 'attend the scene' [9.16am], but 'then he left' on a mission of 'imformatives [9.35am] before 'returning back to the crime scene' [11.45am] and then finally leaving again [13.37pm]..

'How was it possible, for' DS JONES' to 'forget how many times he visited the crime scene on the first morning of the police investigation?

' He obviously lied to the 'COLP' investigators in 1991 about this!

Why, did he lie?
« Last Edit: March 22, 2022, 04:21:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline David1819

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Anthony Pargheter brought up the silencer on the first day. The police then asked Jeremy about it in his witness statement. Ann Eaton overheard this and was then able to later contradict JBs statement by making it seem the silencer was on the gun.

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Mike,

Are you sure those notes are from DS Jones' interview with COLP?  I will of course defer to your greater knowledge of the documentation, but I always thought they were from his interview by the Dickinson Inquiry in 1986.

The reason I mention this is that, as you will know but others here may not, Stan Jones did give a statement to COLP in 1991.  That was a statement dated 29th. August 1991.

Note also that there is missing from your attachments a follow-on page in the [1986?] notes of interview that is very significant and puts the matter in its proper context, because it records the meeting later that same evening at 9 p.m at the White House when DS Jones hands over the keys to the relatives.

DS Jones' statement to COLP in 1991 directly contradicts what he told the Dickinson Inquiry in 1986.

What he told the Dickinson Inquiry in 1986:
Myself and DCI Jones met with Jeremy on the 9th. August 1985 at 7.30 p.m.  Mugford, Eaton (Ann) and Christopher Nevill also present.  Discussion with Jeremy included mention of the silencer.  I think I had discussed the silencer previously [not specific about with whom].  Drawn no significance from it.  At 9 p.m., I handed over the keys to the relatives.

What he told COLP (the Bamber Inquiry) in 1991:
No silencer found on the morning of the 7th. that I know of.  It wasn't discussed or even thought of as everybody assumed it was murder-suicide. 

Note that there is no mention in the 1991 statement of whether the silencer was discussed in meetings with Anthony Pargeter and Ann Eaton on the 8th. or with Jeremy on the 9th., though he mentions both these meetings in his 1991 statement.  I believe that we can take it as implied by DS Jones that the silencer wasn't discussed, since otherwise he would have mentioned it in his 1991 statement as that is what he was being questioned about. This of course contradicts what he said in 1986.

My view:

(i). I have no doubt that DS Jones' 1986 version of events is more likely to be the correct version. When questioned by the Dickinson Inquiry, DS Jones' memory was fresher and he is referring specifically to 'the silencer' (definite article), which can only mean the certificated Parker-Hale silencer.  However, it is not clear whether DS Jones means to imply that a silencer had already been found, or only that a silencer was noticed to be missing.  Either of those things would be of immense significance, but it is not clear which he and DCI Jones meant.

(ii). The 1986 document refers to discussions about the silencer prior to the 9th. involving DS Jones, but it is not clear whether this was with Jeremy or DCI Jones or someone else.

(iii). The 1991 statement directly contradicts the 1986 interview.  There can be only one explanation for this.  In 1991, DS Jones was being interviewed specifically about the silencer.  He has clearly for some reason decided to change his account and omit reference to any discussions or suspicions about it.

Anthony Pargheter brought up the silencer on the first day. The police then asked Jeremy about it in his witness statement. Ann Eaton overheard this and was then able to later contradict JBs statement by making it seem the silencer was on the gun.

DS Jones was present at a meeting on 8th. August between DCI Jones, Ann Eaton, David Boutflour and Anthony Pargeter.  I'm therefore wondering if Stan Jones' reference in his 1986 interview to "previous discussions" about the silencer is to that meeting the day before. 

However, while I consider Stan Jones' 1991 statement to be unreliable (for the reasons given above), at the same time I note that in that statement he mentions both meetings on the 8th. and 9th. and I cannot think of a reason why he would not mention that the silencer was discussed on the 8th.