Bamber controlling a fully fit Sheila.

[Adam]

The following is from Wilkes (Kindle version).

"Late that evening Pamela Boutflour telephoned her sister June to invite her to Carbonells Farm the following Thursday along with Sheila and the twins. At one point in the conversation June handed the receiver to Sheila. Pamela Boutflour remembered that the conversation with her niece was hard going. She expressed her concern to June when Sheila returned the receiver to her mother. Later Mrs Boutflour described Sheila as sounding like a zombie."

[Adam]

Three minutes of Sheila just saying 'yes/no' in a two way phone conversation is a long time.

If she was a shy 6 year old maybe. But she was 27.

It seems the multiple strong side effects of Haloperiodal were really effecting her at this time. As suggested by Wilkes, CAL, Bamber, PB, Julie, the COA, Michael Horsnell & the crime scene.

Even Sheila herself had requested her dosage was reduced.

Bamber's biggest problem he would envisage would be waking her up.

[guest29835]

From CAL (Kindle version)

"In Wix, Pamela told Robert that the conversation with Sheila had been ‘hard-going’. She sounded like ‘a zombie’ and didn’t want to feed the twins or look after herself, which was why June wanted their advice about ‘putting Sheila into a nursing home’. Describing the phone call to Colin some days later, Pamela recalled an extra detail: June had wanted Sheila to stay with a ‘Christian community in Bournemouth’.

There is nothing like that in the seven statements she gave to the police.  Who or what is Carol Ann Lee's source?

[guest29835]

Hi Gascoigne.Is Dr Iliffes statement in the Archives somewhere? I cant find it.

It may not be.  I have it.  Dr. Iliffe was a doctor who attended on Sheila at her apartment in March 1985.  This was prior to Sheila commencing medication.  Among other things, he reported her as giving one syllable answers to questions.

[Adam]

https://youtu.be/8dddt5CCgaA

https://youtu.be/2HzNJPxMDs8

https://youtu.be/ve1N3xOlc-g

https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/nursing-and-health-professions/haloperidol#:~:text=Haloperidol%20is%20another%20butyrophenone%20which,antiemetic%20effects%20through%20D2%20antagonism

[Adam]

'Lamb to the slaughter', 'sitting duck', 'there for the taking'. Take your pick.

But as said, Bamber was going ahead regardless. The rewards were too tempting.

[Adam]

There is nothing like that in the seven statements she gave to the police.  Who or what is Carol Ann Lee's source?

Don't forget Wilkes.

[Adam]

CAL also said Sheila needed help getting off sofa's. A week before the massacre. According to a friend of Sheila's.

Hopefully everyone agrees Sheila was easy to control for the few seconds Bamber required. While simultaneously unable to breach, chamber & load a rifle. Let alone wrestle Nevill for it.

[lookout]

In one of Sheila's psychotic episodes 2 or 3 GP's couldn't control her outside her flat at Maida Vale. You can't control the uncontrollable without restraint of some sort and restraint wouldn't have/ wasn't used on a young woman. Someone at that time rang for her father. Nevill picked her up eventually and took her to St. Andrews.

[Jane]

In one of Sheila's psychotic episodes 2 or 3 GP's couldn't control her outside her flat at Maida Vale. You can't control the uncontrollable without restraint of some sort and restraint wouldn't have/ wasn't used on a young woman. Someone at that time rang for her father. Nevill picked her up eventually and took her to St. Andrews.

I think that that may have been the occasion on which Freddie had "feared for my life" although she'd never touched him and you don't need me to remind you how frightened Sheila, already in a state of confusion, would have been to find herself being manhandled, by strange people -probably men- into a vehicle. Added to which, she was unmedicated.

It's possible that two separate occasions have been rolled into one, here. If 'men in white coats' had already transported Sheila to hospital, and I can't imagine her to have been so violent that they couldn't handle her, and simply left her there, Nevill, despite being called, couldn't have have been her transport.

[lookout]

I think that was the occasion on which Freddie had "feared for my life" although she'd never touched him, and you don't need me to remind you how frightened Sheila, already in a state of confusion, would have been to find herself being manhandled, by strange people -probably men- into a vehicle. Added to which, she was unmedicated.

Yes, Sheila would certainly have been frightened and confused as having no personal understanding of her own condition naturally thought and also saw those who she didn't recognise, as a threat. Although Sheila had recognised Freddie, her oncoming episode saw him as the devil and that he too " was out to get her ".
I imagine that on the night of the tragedies she saw everyone inside the farmhouse as her enemies and not being of sound mind, saw fit to rid them from her life.
 Apart from the fact that we know within the minds of schizophrenics, that they hear voices giving " commands " we don't know why or to whom those commands are given towards.

[Jane]

Yes, Sheila would certainly have been frightened and confused as having no personal understanding of her own condition naturally thought and also saw those who she didn't recognise, as a threat. Although Sheila had recognised Freddie, her oncoming episode saw him as the devil and that he too " was out to get her ".
I imagine that on the night of the tragedies she saw everyone inside the farmhouse as her enemies and not being of sound mind, saw fit to rid them from her life.
 Apart from the fact that we know within the minds of schizophrenics, that they hear voices giving " commands " we don't know why or to whom those commands are given towards.

But she never touched him, despite believing him to be the devil. It seems she was berating herself. Isn't it also strange, given that we know a classic symptom of schizophrenia is hearing voices, although she's alleged to have believed herself to be various personalities, she doesn't appear to have claimed that voices -named or unnamed- have told her this, or that they tell her anything at all. I remain surprised that Dr Ferguson makes no mention of this, especially when he spoke with her is the early stages of her admission.

[lookout]

But she never touched him, despite believing him to be the devil. It seems she was berating herself. Isn't it also strange, given that we know a classic symptom of schizophrenia is hearing voices, although she's alleged to have believed herself to be various personalities, she doesn't appear to have claimed that voices -named or unnamed- have told her this, or that they tell her anything at all. I remain surprised that Dr Ferguson makes no mention of this, especially when he spoke with her is the early stages of her admission.

I'm afraid Dr. Ferguson made no mention of lots of things during his treatment of Sheila and I'd have asked for a refund if I'd have been Nevill. Sheila would have been treated far better in an NHS facility.

Ironically, I've just been reading about a 16 year old girl, no MH problems, who instigated the killing of an innocent psychiatrist. Accompanied by two other male thugs it was she who praised her own work by saying " Yeah, I needed that ". It was a murder driven by homophobia.
The verdict is---that you don't have to be mad/ psychotic to kill, something we all knew I think.   

[Jane]

I'm afraid Dr. Ferguson made no mention of lots of things during his treatment of Sheila and I'd have asked for a refund if I'd have been Nevill. Sheila would have been treated far better in an NHS facility.

Ironically, I've just been reading about a 16 year old girl, no MH problems, who instigated the killing of an innocent psychiatrist. Accompanied by two other male thugs it was she who praised her own work by saying " Yeah, I needed that ". It was a murder driven by homophobia.
The verdict is---that you don't have to be mad/ psychotic to kill, something we all knew I think.

I wouldn't disagree with that, however, I suspect we may not have full details of many things we'd benefit from knowing!

I've just read the same article. It initially leads one to believe that the poor man's status as a psychiatrist was a significant part of it, but it seems as if it was a random attack and he was simply in the wrong place at the wrong time.

[snow66!]

It may not be.  I have it.  Dr. Iliffe was a doctor who attended on Sheila at her apartment in March 1985.  This was prior to Sheila commencing medication.  Among other things, he reported her as giving one syllable answers to questions.

Thanks for that info Gascoigne.