Bamber controlling a fully fit Sheila.

[Jane]

Hi Jane.Sorry if you take my tongue in cheek comments as offensive.I think you know i have no intention of being disrespectful to anyone living or dead,and if i do,i will appologise right away without question.So if i have caused you any distress with my comments about Sheila ,i am sorry.But the thing is Jane,i try and give a complete step by step scenario of situations,and take them to a conclusion,no matter how uncumfortable that may be.If i may say so,the likes of Adam and yourself only give a vague outline of the events and avoid any real detail.Infact many members play it safe and dont give scenarios at all,giving little detail of why they think JB is guilty or not.At least i try and explain fully the reasons why i have doubt,and if this causes offence at times i am truly sorry.But remember Jane,it is a murder case we are discussing and as such is likely to cause some friction between members.

None of us is capable of providing a step by step, blow by blow scenario, Snow, because we weren't there. However, if we're going to try, it's helpful if we try to understand the mindset of those who are in the positions they find themselves, either by choice, or force. Doing otherwise can create farce rather than fact.

[Adam]

None of us is capable of providing a step by step, blow by blow scenario, Snow, because we weren't there. However, if we're going to try, it's helpful if we try to understand the mindset of those who are in the positions they find themselves, either by choice, or force. Doing otherwise can create farce rather than fact.

Snow66! posted yesterday -

'Adam.Please give a detailed account from the time JB entered Sheilas room until her death.What was said and every action'.

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He can always use his iniative & decide for himself. His Sheila scenario has percific times June/Sheila scream & Crispy barks.

[Adam]

Again, I would like to ask: Where does Pamela Boutflour confirm that Sheila was in a drowsy state, or as you have also said, like a 'zombie'?  I have read seven statements from Pamela Boutflour and none of them mention this.  Have I missed it?

I think Snow is more on the right lines about Sheila.  The statement from Dr. Iliffe about seeing Sheila at the apartment in March 1985 suggests a consistent pattern of demeanour and behaviour, as her manner on that occasion was not dissimilar to that reported around the time of the tragedy.  In March, she was not yet medicated but was drinking and taking illicit drugs.  We know from the toxicology report that this continued.  I think the antipsychotics made Sheila worse, not better.

You know full well PB said Sheila spent 3 minutes just saying 'yes/no'. Before June took back control of the phone.

This matches Bamber's WS that Sheila was non responsive about conversations on fostering.

[Adam]

You know full well PB said Sheila spent 3 minutes just saying 'yes/no'. Before June took back control of the phone.

This matches Bamber's WS that Sheila was non responsive about conversations on fostering.

Of course you can always say Bamber lied about such a conversation.

It is correct Bamber was so excited after his reconnaissance, he rang Julie as soon as he got home. Which supports PB's WS.

Why do you believe Bamber has always refused to speak about his phone call to Julie? He rang her breaking a 3 day silence & the call was 17 minutes.

[snow66!]

You know full well PB said Sheila spent 3 minutes just saying 'yes/no'. Before June took back control of the phone.

This matches Bamber's WS that Sheila was non responsive about conversations on fostering.

Hi Adam,nice morning again.With all due respect,that phone call to Pam proves absolutely nothing.On the journey down with Colin and the twins,Sheila never uttered ONE word.And this behaviour continued on arrival pretty much.So the lack of joining in about the fostering was simply a continuation of her behaviour on the journey down.The fact she spoke AT ALL to Pam,albeit-yes,no--was actually an IMPROVEMENT.So i think we can view whatever Pam said in her statements as meaningless in regard of Sheilas condition,MEANINGLESS!

[snow66!]

This withdrawn behaviour started days before her arrival at the farm,and continued until she finally flipped!

[Adam]

Hi Adam,nice morning again.With all due respect,that phone call to Pam proves absolutely nothing.On the journey down with Colin and the twins,Sheila never uttered ONE word.And this behaviour continued on arrival pretty much.So the lack of joining in about the fostering was simply a continuation of her behaviour on the journey down.The fact she spoke AT ALL to Pam,albeit-yes,no--was actually an IMPROVEMENT.So i think we can view whatever Pam said in her statements as meaningless in regard of Sheilas condition,MEANINGLESS!

Agree it doesn't prove anything. But sure doesn't do Bamber any favours.

Haloperiodal is a very powerful drug. Sedation being one of several side effects. It was restricting Sheila so much, she asked for her injections to be reduced.

[snow66!]

Agree it doesn't prove anything. But sure doesn't do Bamber any favours.

Haloperiodal is a very powerful drug. Sedation being one of several side effects. It was restricting Sheila so much, she asked for her injections to be reduced.

Yes Adam.and they WERE reduced.Hence ,less drowsy but more withdrawn by the effects of her mental illness.Cant you see this as a plausable possibility Adam.Free your mind and look.

[snow66!]

Sheila was oblivious at the best of times as to people's reactions to her, symptoms of the schizophrenia which may have manifested itself during the modelling assignment in Japan. Jeremy knew of her unawareness of surroundings as he entered her room that August morning, woke her as she had done to him at Christmastide all those years before, leading her by the arm on the pretext that June had some Bible pretext to require her presence. The dead body was a plus, not a minus, as no resistance would be forthcoming from that quarter, though speed was of the essence, hence the accuracy mistake with the first shot.

So basically Sheeila didnt know where she was or what was happening Steve.So we can add on CONFUSION to the list.Drowsy,sedated and totally confused.My lord she paid a heavy price for her treatment with Haloperidol.

[Jane]

So basically Sheeila didnt know where she was or what was happening Steve.So we can add on CONFUSION to the list.Drowsy,sedated and totally confused.My lord she paid a heavy price for her treatment with Haloperidol.

But preferable to psychosis perhaps?

[guest29835]

You know full well PB said Sheila spent 3 minutes just saying 'yes/no'. Before June took back control of the phone.

This matches Bamber's WS that Sheila was non responsive about conversations on fostering.

Have you read Dr. Iliffe's statement?

[snow66!]

Snow66! posted yesterday -

'Adam.Please give a detailed account from the time JB entered Sheilas room until her death.What was said and every action'.

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He can always use his iniative & decide for himself. His Sheila scenario has percific times June/Sheila scream & Crispy barks.

Good evening Adam.If you look at my JB scenario,you can see what i decided on.

[snow66!]

Have you read Dr. Iliffe's statement?

Hi Gascoigne.Is Dr Iliffes statement in the Archives somewhere? I cant find it.

[snow66!]

Hello casual browsers,how are you tonight.You will notice there isnt much activity this evening.That is because it was such a fine day,the members had a few beers to cool them down.But the trouble was they didnt stop at that.Once they had a few beers they hit the spirits,and now they will be sozzled and sleeping it off.Oh yes all the members of the forum,except myself,like a drink.In fact they are all alcoholics.That is why there is so much arguing.Most of the time they are either drunk or so hung over and ill.they take it out on each other.Oh yes,many of the members have been dried out numerous times.AND as if that isnt bad enough,they all smoke cannibis as well.They know i dont drink much and dont take drugs,so they often PM me or phone me up,crying over the phone about the prediciment they are in.Poor souls,i do genuiney feel for them.Most have been told by their GP to cut out the booze,but they just carry on regardless.Yes,sadly all the members of this forum except myself are drug addled alcoholics.That is why they talk so much rubbish,you will notice how sensible everything that i say is in comparison.Oh well they will probably sober up a bit by tommoro,and start posting again,depending how hung over they are.So now you know.Oh well bye for now my friends.

[Adam]

From CAL (Kindle version)

"In Wix, Pamela told Robert that the conversation with Sheila had been ‘hard-going’. She sounded like ‘a zombie’ and didn’t want to feed the twins or look after herself, which was why June wanted their advice about ‘putting Sheila into a nursing home’. Describing the phone call to Colin some days later, Pamela recalled an extra detail: June had wanted Sheila to stay with a ‘Christian community in Bournemouth’.