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Offline nugnug

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why would they
« on: March 14, 2022, 03:18:PM »
why would many foreni eeperts and e ops all onspire to lie just in order to et luke out of prion whywould they do it what would e in  it for them.

Offline Davie2

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Re: why would they
« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2022, 05:45:PM »
The same could be said for L&B police, 100's of witnesses, the justice system, the press and his very own brother. The difference is, they were not paid a fee for their opinion by producers of sensationalized documentaries.

The only one of these so-called expert's opinion that is worth anything, is Busttilli, although this has been asked multiple times, i have yet to see anyone point in the direction, that he has ever put his name towards the innocent campaign.

Really need to try harder.

Offline Germane

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Re: why would they
« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2022, 12:07:AM »
Yeah, the C5 doco was extremely biased, and, let’s face it, without any reference to the Prosecution’s case it is worthless and untenable. As I recall, they seemed to cherry-pick and focus on AB’s sighting at 1654, saying, inaccurately, that she didn’t identify him in court; she didn’t categorically say it wasn’t him, but rather she said she didn’t know. There’s quite a difference. Besides, AB was only being truthful, as LM had changed considerably between 30.06.03 and her court appearance; 18 months had elapsed and in that time Luke had gained weight, his hair was longer, and was still developing and going through puberty. However, there were far more people at court who testified and id’d LM in court (the 3 pushbike boys, Carol Heatlie and LF & RW). Also, the doco focused on the lack of forensics, saying there was no DNA linking LM to the murder; again, this was misleading, as LM’s dna was found on Jodi’s bra and there were many markers from partial profiles on Jodi’s clothes and body, so much so that LM couldn’t be ruled out as the donor.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2022, 12:09:AM by Germane »

Offline Davie2

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Re: why would they
« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2022, 02:23:PM »
AB’s sighting at 1654, saying, inaccurately, that she didn’t identify him in court; she didn’t categorically say it wasn’t him, but rather she said she didn’t know. There’s quite a difference. Besides, AB was only being truthful,

And that is why, over the years, they have tried to discredit her sighting, they focus on this much more than any of the others. They have even gone as far as trying to connect her to the Jones. Simply because, she told the truth in court that she did not know that Mitchell was in court that day. We know why, it was actually quite a clever move from Donald Findley, he knew Bryson was due up that day, he knew what he was going to ask her what a better way to confuse her, by getting Luke to change his appearance, quite considerably as well.  But the fact she told the truth, tells us, she is an honest person, she probably knew it was Luke, just not the Luke she saw on the day of the murder. From a scruffy teen, to some kind of slick pornstar.

The dumb and dumber with daughter in tow, reconstruction. It was something out of a Benny Hill sketch. Wonder what those two are up to these days? Exactly, nothing, drowning in their sorrows after getting bumped off the force.

Offline Fairplay1

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Re: why would they
« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2022, 07:19:PM »
And that is why, over the years, they have tried to discredit her sighting, they focus on this much more than any of the others. They have even gone as far as trying to connect her to the Jones. Simply because, she told the truth in court that she did not know that Mitchell was in court that day. We know why, it was actually quite a clever move from Donald Findley, he knew Bryson was due up that day, he knew what he was going to ask her what a better way to confuse her, by getting Luke to change his appearance, quite considerably as well.  But the fact she told the truth, tells us, she is an honest person, she probably knew it was Luke, just not the Luke she saw on the day of the murder. From a scruffy teen, to some kind of slick pornstar.

The dumb and dumber with daughter in tow, reconstruction. It was something out of a Benny Hill sketch. Wonder what those two are up to these days? Exactly, nothing, drowning in their sorrows after getting bumped off the force.


The reason AB is discredited is because her description of the two people once properly scrutinised fell apart when you know the clothes , hair colour etc of Jodi in particular, it's clear to most including the appeal judge this is an area that could be argued.

Also , the not picking Luke out this has to be the most rediculas area of all to say Luke had changed etc, he was in the papers for God knows how long , please she knew exactly who she was to pick out that day , but when it got to court the lady would not lie , being unsure was her way of taking the easy way out.

The two other witnesses never saw his face but one of them said she would never forget those eyes , really how does somebody never forget a persons eyes when the never seen their face. DFindlay annihilated these two on the stand with their evidence as did the judge as it was very obvious they had collaborated , it's all out there in trial coverage and appeal docs.

The experts getting paid for their opinion , yeah that's how it works people get paid for a job. So what you are saying is these experts would put their name to an injustice just for the cash what about their credibility and their career , they would throw it all away just for one case, catch a grip

What about the expert from the FBI is he a liar as well, someone outlined all the experts on another thread on here it's worth checking them all out and ask yourself why would they support if their was even a possablility that it could be wrong , why take the chance if wrong it could be hugely detrimental for their career .

The two coppers had 30 years between them in serious crime , on the latter part of their career they where allegedly involved in some type of corruption within that department however I believe no charges where upheld so who knows. But I agree with their credibility being in question even though no charges it's never good no smoke without fire comes to mind.

Professor B stated in the BBC Documentary that it was very unlikely that Luke committed this crime, he also stated about 4 mins in Jodi fought for her life , Luke Mitchell had not a mark , scratch , DNA under those dirty finger nails all come back as clear.  The BBC documentary was screened 2 years after conviction this was a balanced look at the crime and the investigation , nobody esp one of the top Patholigist in Scotland would appear in a documentary outlining the flaws and anomalies of a case if he didn't support , again Dave catch a grip.

« Last Edit: March 15, 2022, 08:40:PM by Fairplay1 »

Offline Fairplay1

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Re: why would they
« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2022, 07:57:PM »
Yeah, the C5 doco was extremely biased, and, let’s face it, without any reference to the Prosecution’s case it is worthless and untenable. As I recall, they seemed to cherry-pick and focus on AB’s sighting at 1654, saying, inaccurately, that she didn’t identify him in court; she didn’t categorically say it wasn’t him, but rather she said she didn’t know. There’s quite a difference. Besides, AB was only being truthful, as LM had changed considerably between 30.06.03 and her court appearance; 18 months had elapsed and in that time Luke had gained weight, his hair was longer, and was still developing and going through puberty. However, there were far more people at court who testified and id’d LM in court (the 3 pushbike boys, Carol Heatlie and LF & RW). Also, the doco focused on the lack of forensics, saying there was no DNA linking LM to the murder; again, this was misleading, as LM’s dna was found on Jodi’s bra and there were many markers from partial profiles on Jodi’s clothes and body, so much so that LM couldn’t be ruled out as the donor.

I agree Germane the programme was bias in as much as it was to outline the flaws in the investigation against Luke Mitchell, that was the purpose as the only side we (the public) knew only the prosecution and the medias bias pre trial and throughout so this programme was purposely to point out the many flaws that way we would then have both sides .  However their was a separate production by the BBC The Devils own filmed 2 years after case ( Sandra lean had no part in this ) , so if you haven't seen that you should watch as it has some key experts .  It's always a good thing to research fully it may not waver your opinion or it may highlight something you where not aware of before.

I've noticed you have mentioned Luke's DNA was on Jodi bra , this is factually incorrect their was no full profile of Luke on Jodi or her underclothes. The profile was a partial , the markers found could match some of Luke's but also many other males, including key people involved in the investigation. The only full profile found on Jodi Bra tshirt was from her sisters boyfriend which they said was via innocent transfer however my suspicious little mind would like that clarified via  a fresh Forensic Analysis via Independent Enquiry .

Offline Davie2

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Re: why would they
« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2022, 09:34:PM »
The reason AB is discredited is because her description of the two people once properly scrutinised fell apart when you know the clothes , hair colour etc of Jodi in particular, it's clear to most including the appeal judge this is an area that could be argued.

That is because you have tunnel vision.

Also , the not picking Luke out this has to be the most rediculas area of all to say Luke had changed etc, he was in the papers for God knows how long , please she knew exactly who she was to pick out that day , but when it got to court the lady would not lie , being unsure was her way of taking the easy way out.

You just don't get it do you?

DFindlay annihilated these two on the stand with their evidence as did the judge as it was very obvious they had collaborated , it's all out there in trial coverage and appeal docs.

Oooo, a conspiracy theory. Need to back this up.

credibility and their career

How is that working out for them?

What about the expert from the FBI

Oooooo, big fancy names. The FBI, who gives a shit.

The two coppers had 30 years between them in serious crime

Yea? Who told you that. What sort of crime where they're solving, links to back this up.

Professor B stated in the BBC Documentary that it was very unlikely that Luke committed this crime

Show me anything, where he puts his name to the campaign. Why don't you go email him and ask him, bet ye won't..

Offline Davie2

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Re: why would they
« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2022, 09:39:PM »
Forensic Analysis via Independent Enquiry .

Not going to happen. Case it closed.

Offline Fairplay1

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Re: why would they
« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2022, 10:18:PM »
That is because you have tunnel vision.

You just don't get it do you?

Oooo, a conspiracy theory. Need to back this up.

How is that working out for them?

Oooooo, big fancy names. The FBI, who gives a shit.

Yea? Who told you that. What sort of crime where they're solving, links to back this up.

Show me anything, where he puts his name to the campaign. Why don't you go email him and ask him, bet ye won't..


Again you show yourself for what you are , how much research (not just one side) have you done. You questioned the police investigation being to a poor standard , you ask for proof why don't you bloody research the trial and the appeal detail even Donald Findlay was flabbergasted that a lead detective of his rank would be unaware of basic procedures with regards to identity parade , that was reported in the paper and also the appeal makes reference also.  You don't even need to research Sandra for this info , it's out there in the public domain.

I can't be bothered with any the rest of that rabble , I know both sides you are only defending one so your imput is severely bias , but good luck to you if you are happy with the murder conviction and actively turn a blind eye to anything that does not line up with your belief , no need for any further clarification with u , the streets are safe..

Well I'm not , I want to make sure a murderer is off the streets, I want to know who all those unidentified male DNA profiles found on Jodi belong to , I want to be damn sure and all these credible experts putting their name towards support of miscarriage only further supports a further look, ( your interpretation of Prof B is like most of your opinion completely and utterly bias ) well we are just world a parts with our thinking but good luck to you ??

Offline Davie2

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Re: why would they
« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2022, 10:51:PM »
Again you show yourself for what you are

Intelligent, handsome, know it all.

you ask for proof why don't you bloody research the trial

You are the one making all sorts of claims, i have yet to see any sources to back them up. You're copping out, i almost feel embarrassed for you.

identity parade

Done the murdering psychopath a favour if you ask me.

the streets are safe..

From Mitchell, they are.

Well I'm not , I want to make sure a murderer is off the streets, I want to know who all those unidentified male DNA profiles found on Jodi belong to

There is more chance that Jesus comes back.


I want

You want lots of things, don't you, it reminds me of a 5 year old child. Stamp your feet and squeal outside Holyrood, might work. Oh you lot have tried that one already lol.

( your interpretation of Prof B is like most of your opinion completely and utterly bias )

So you bottled it? Never mailed him?

Offline Fairplay1

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Re: why would they
« Reply #10 on: March 16, 2022, 01:54:AM »
Intelligent, handsome, know it all.

You are the one making all sorts of claims, i have yet to see any sources to back them up. You're copping out, i almost feel embarrassed for you.

Done the murdering psychopath a favour if you ask me.

From Mitchell, they are.

There is more chance that Jesus comes back.


You want lots of things, don't you, it reminds me of a 5 year old child. Stamp your feet and squeal outside Holyrood, might work. Oh you lot have tried that one already lol.

So you bottled it? Never mailed him?

Your not aware of the police blunders in this case and that is not via Dr Lean- as I say you have done no research

You are embarrassing yourself with your complete ignorance , most people I have debated with who are on the guilty side even admit to the poor police investigation- like I say just embarrassing.

I want to ensure justice has been delivered not just to ensure safety but to ensure the wee girl who lost her life has proper justice and able to rest in peace.

I don't need to send a letter to Professor Bussattil he has clearly made his feelings known on the subject with his appearance on a BBC documentary outlining the flaws - just embarrassing .  What is it you think he is saying in the documentary . If he supported the guilty he would not appear on a documentary about innocence - catch a grip

I can't debate with someone who is blinkered and closed off to the problems with this case .

Here I will help you research check out what the liaison officer at COURT as a prosecution witness admitted to D Findlay she said the investigation was a SHAMBLES - just embarrassing that you are trying to state all the problems with that investigation . Even the BBC Doc outline the problems with that investigation - just embarrassing.

Can't really debate a subject where the person has not even done the most basic of research , your a closed book , and a danger to our society with such closed views.

One more time for old time sake , What does the forensic analysis in the Luke Mitchell case tell you and no the answer is not " because it's a circumstancial case" - what type of answer is that , just embarrassing.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2022, 12:28:PM by Fairplay1 »

guest29835

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Re: why would they
« Reply #11 on: March 16, 2022, 09:52:AM »
Your not aware of the police blunders in this case and that is not via Dr Lean- as I say you have done no research

You are embarrassing yourself with your complete ignorance , most people I have debated with who are on the guilty side even admit to the poor police investigation- like I say just embarrassing.

I want to ensure justice has been delivered not just to ensure safety but to ensure the wee girl who lost her life has proper justice and able to rest in peace.

I don't need to send a letter to Professor Bussattil he has clearly made his feelings known on the subject with his appearance on a BBC documentary outlining the flaws - just embarrassing .  What is it you think he is saying in the documentary . If he supported the guilty he would not appear on a documentary about innocence - catch a grip

I can't debate with someone who is blinkered and closed off to the problems with this case .

Here I will help you research check out what the liaison officer at COURT as a prosecution witness admitted to D Findlay she said the investigation was a SHAMBLES - just embarrassing that you are trying to state all the problems with that investigation . Even the BBC Doc outline the problems with that investigation - just embarrassing.

Can't really debate a subject where the person has not even done the most basic of research , your a closed book , and a danger to our society with such closed views.

One more time for old time sake , What does the forensic analysis in the Luke Mitchell case tell you and no the answer is not " because it's a circumstant case" - what type of answer is that , just embarrassing.

What would you say were the problems and errors in the police investigation?  Could you perhaps provide a quick bullet list?

Offline Fairplay1

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Re: why would they
« Reply #12 on: March 16, 2022, 11:46:AM »
What would you say were the problems and errors in the police investigation?  Could you perhaps provide a quick bullet list?

1. Within in the first few hours of this investigation a complete lack of crime scene management was obvious by  Leaving the victim out in the rain , no cover of the victim to a. Retain vital evidence and b. Give the victim some dignity.
2. Police where instructed  to collect all the clothing in a hap hazard fashion which created cross contamination.
3. Forensic officer who arrived could not get over the v in the wall due to a bad back so instead of going in another way decided to leave again leaving potential evidence to be damaged and lost . A different forensic officer officer then turned up at 8:00 am the following day to walk the scene and gather evidence.
4. No time of death given or assessed properly
5. Police disturbed the scene before forensic officer appeared with cutting down branches with blood splatter on them.
6. Jodi body was moved by rolling on to plastic covering , who knows Jodi position when body was initiall moved by police.
7. The Forensic officer admitted at trial it was not an ideal situation as the body being moved and not covered would of course cause problems with assessing the scene as it was left by the murderer.
8. An order to bleach the scene therefor destroying any escape scent by the murderer and then the best bit getting the dogs brought in to help find a scent however the scene being bleached meant the dogs could not do their job.
9 No cancellation of bins being picked  up , maybe the murderer disposed of clothing, knife etc but it would not matter as bins are gone.

10. A person who's fresh semen was found in a condom ( not identified for 3 years) went back to the same spot the following day to masturbate again , he must have been unaware of the police presence and walked over what should have been a cordoned off area and did his business again , I can only assume no police presence the day after a wee girl was murdered to be of little deterennt for this weirdo who liked to do his thing in a public area.
11. Only one of Jodi hand was forensically covered and that was done incorrectly going by the evidence outlined at court , a common and very unusual result yielding no reportable result, this was 2003 not the 80's
12. I will go back in my notes and quote the Forensic persons words at trial
13 . Liaison officer who was at Mitchell's house said at court the investigation was a shambles, and that is one of their own ( do people think this is made up , it's all out there to be found if you research every single side of this case
14. The search party clothes should have all been taken at the same time as Luke's, Jodi grans held her grandchild she could have had transfer on her clothes , she had no idea what she was wearing five days later when police thought yeah we probably should check her/ their clothes.
15. Donald Finlay at appeal was dumbfounded that the Detective in charge of a brutal murder was unaware of basic procedures when it came to Identity parade , Mr Dobie a man of his rank had no idea of BASIC procedures , if he was unaware of the most basic areas of policing how can anyone trust his ability , total and completly incompetent.


Ive probably missed other areas of incompetence but I think this little list gives you an idea to why I have no faith in this investigation.

And I have not even started on the outrageous and deplorable conduct by these officers on a 15 year old boy.

Let me ask a question of you , are/ where you unaware of these issues around the police investigation , my research consists of BBC Documentary, Media reporting on trial and after. Donald Findlay touched on these areas at appeal. Sandra Leans book and further podcasts .  She is one person who has access to the defence information no one here has that access so forgive me if I find her information relevant you may choose to ignore but I believe in a murder investigation these many areas of flaws , evidence of incompetence are all just a bit too much and completely unacceptable. 

That is why a full Independent Enquiry should be completed on this case, fully transparent . If the police did an ace job then an Enquiry will highlight that. Only the truth must be sought for this case , it's the right thing to do for Jodi, for the community and for Luke and for all of us who are still arguing about a magical fishing jacket and a boy calling the talking clock.??
« Last Edit: March 16, 2022, 11:51:AM by Fairplay1 »

Offline Roadrunner

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Re: why would they
« Reply #13 on: March 16, 2022, 11:51:AM »
Great post Fairplay1  I think you've covered some of them already but I'll post my list too.

Evidence gathering/crime scene management
Treating LM as a suspect from the start then denying that was the case.
Forensically examining LM as soon as possible but not even realising that the other 3 members of the search party were important witnesses too and not asking for their clothing until at least 3-4 days later.
Not having a proper identity parade. Showing witnesses a leading photo line up and even a picture of LM in the newspaper.
Naming Luke in the papers in relation to black magic, 'the violent world of gothic sub-culture' rituals and Satanism as early as 6th July.
Appointing an FLO while LM was being treated as a suspect.
Having advice from a criminal psychologist that Luke may self harm or reoffend in line with goth culture then releasing him with no protection in place for himself or the public.
Searching the house with the specific goal of finding Marilyn Manson related items.
Telling the press that the moped boys had been cleared of any involvement before any kind of forensic analysis had came back to definitively clear them.



Here's some further reading that highlights just some of the failures in this case.

From the Scotsman in 2005

But today as Mitchell was found guilty, Lothian and Borders Police’s hunch was proved right, although there was severe criticism of their handling of the investigation during the case.
There was no murder weapon, no blood covered clothes - despite the gruesome nature of the murder - and no damning DNA find.
There was not even convincing eye-witness testimony.
The trial heard that Jodi’s body was left uncovered and exposed to the elements for eight hours after it was first discovered, possibly risking the destruction of vital DNA evidence.
The schoolgirl’s body and items around it had been moved before the forensic team started work.
Even though the knife used to murder Jodi had not been found, the bins in the area were allowed to be emptied before a thorough search could be carried out.
The way police carried out a virtual identity parade, presenting photographs of Luke and other youths to one witness, was also criticised during the trial at the High Court in Edinburgh.
A string of incidents were highlighted by Mitchell’s defence lawyer Donald Findlay, QC, during the 42-day trial.
In one blistering courtroom attack, Mr Findlay described the behaviour of detectives as "a disgrace".
The court heard that the first forensic scientist to examine the crime scene arrived more than eight hours after Jodi's body was found. Not only had her body been left uncovered overnight in the rain, but it had also been moved and items around it moved before Derek Scrimger arrived at the scene.
Under questioning from Mr Findlay, Mr Scrimger was forced to admit that it was "not an ideally managed crime scene from the very start".
The forensic scientist said he believed that a tent should have been erected over the scene.
Mr Scrimger’s work was further delayed because an earlier female colleague had arrived at the scene, but could not get over the wall to get to the body because she had a bad back.
The jury also heard that a pioneering lab using the most sensitive DNA test in Britain failed to identify Mitchell as the
It also emerged that detectives probing the murder broke normal guidelines by not putting Mitchell on an ID parade.
Mr Findlay claimed "a tactical decision" had been taken not to treat the boy fairly.

From <https://www.scotsman.com/news/clues-snared-murderer-2470415>

From the 2008 appeal

[139] Counsel then proceeded to draw our attention to the transcript of the interview, from page 14 onwards. An example of the outrageous questioning conducted by the police interviewers was to be found at page 20 of the transcript. In the lengthy question on that page, numerous points had been put in a conflated manner, without the interviewer waiting for the suspect to give an answer. The inference was that the interviewer had not actually been interested in obtaining an answer to the various points in the question, but had rather been putting pressure upon the suspect, with a view to extracting some admission of significance from him. Similar questioning occurred at pages 21 and 22. At page 17, the suspect had, following a barrage of questions to which the questioner had not awaited any answer, conceded that his mother and brother had had a fire on the night of 30 June 2003 in the log burner in the back garden of the house where the suspect lived. At page 21 the suspect had, following multiple assertions by the questioner of knife-carrying by the suspect, agreed that a knife shown to him, Crown label production 301, was his fishing knife. More questioning of an unfair nature was to be found at page 25 of the transcript. At page 27 a further composite question was put making very serious allegations to the suspect. Much of the questioning was of a repetitive nature. At pages 28 to 29 there was more questioning of a bullying and badgering nature .

It was submitted that the police questioning was quite plainly a deliberate pre-planned attempt to provoke the appellant, which, it was hoped, would result in him incriminating himself. There could be no other explanation for the character of the questioning. It was evident from some of the appellant's answers that he had been riled and provoked by the police questioning into giving coarse and abusive answers to them, which might be thought to reflect badly upon him. In the course of some passages, police officers had put to the appellant suggestions that were not in fact vouched by any evidence in their possession.

An example of that was to be found at the bottom of page 40 of the transcript. The questioning at page 45 of the transcript concerning the finding of the body of the deceased was grotesquely unfair. That and the material at page 46 was crucial to the Crown's case and had been used by them. The Crown had also made use of the passage between pages 63 to 65 of the transcript, concerning the actions of the appellant after the deceased had not appeared for the meeting that he had contemplated would take place.

That had been preceded by more bullying questioning at pages 47 to 48 of the transcript. Passages at pages 53 and 55 demonstrated that the police had, quite simply, not been interested in receiving answers to their express questions; the questions were put in a bullying and overbearing manner, with the view to endeavouring to extracting damaging admissions from the appellant. On page 61 more inaccurate propositions had been put to the appellant. At page 70 there was a passage relating to the appellant's call to the speaking clock, upon which the Crown relied.

At page 65 of the transcript, the interview had reached a stage when Detective Sergeant David Gordon had entered the room. There followed what might be called the "good cop, bad cop" routine. That was quite simply a trick designed to extract an admission from the appellant. Associated with the arrival of Detective Sergeant Gordon the questioning had moved on to the alleged sexual satisfaction which the appellant might have enjoyed from killing the deceased.


[141] In elaborating his submission that the trial judge's decision to admit the parts of the interview objected to in evidence was wrong, counsel referred to Lord Advocate's Reference (No. 1 of 1983) 1984 J.C. 52. What had been said in that decision at page 58 could have been devised with this particular interview in mind. The police in the present case had fallen far short of all that was required of them. There had been unfairness, cross-examination, pressure, deception, or at least carelessness in questioning, and bullying. The police had plainly embarked upon a campaign to try to force a confession from the appellant. The trial judge had failed to recognise that state of affairs.

The appellant was on 14 August 2003 interviewed under caution by police officers. In the course of the trial the Crown sought to lead before the jury evidence of some but only a few of the questions and answers put and given in the course of that interview. Objection was taken on behalf of the appellant to that course of action but the objection was repelled by the trial judge. The challenge was renewed on appeal, it being maintained that the interview was conducted in circumstances which were wholly and manifestly unfair to the appellant. Having considered the transcript of the interview, we are driven to the conclusion that some of the questions put by the interviewing police officer can only be described as outrageous. At times the nature of the questioning was such that the questioner did not seem to be seriously interested in a response from the appellant but rather endeavouring to break him down into giving some hoped-for confession by his overbearing and hostile interrogation. Such conduct, particularly where the interviewee was a 15 year old youth, can only be deplored.


[152] Turning then to the decision of the trial judge, recorded in paragraph [168] of his report, it is to be noted that, although the appellant was but 15 years of age at the time of the interview, there was present at it, apart from the police officers involved, a senior social worker from the Dalkeith Social Work Department, who was there as a responsible adult, it being inappropriate that the appellant's mother should undertake that responsibility. Before coming to consider, so far as necessary, the details of the interview, it is appropriate to make some general observations. In that part of it which was objected to, commencing at page 12 of Crown production 44, undoubtedly some of the questions put by the police officers can only be described as outrageous. One of the clearest examples of what we mean is to be found at page 55 of the transcript. There, D.C.2, having shown to the suspect a video of the murder scene and having elicited from him certain answers, poses what purports to be a question as follows:

"You say you recognise it as Jodi and you say you can see that it had throat and you said you could see it was completely naked. Now what's nonsense cause you've just watched that and you cannae tell that, you say you can see you barely see something there. What you've said you're a liar, you're a liar. Everything you've been constantly lying to us all the way through this interview. You've lied to us about using cannabis - you use cannabis all the time, we've had loads of people tell us you use cannabis three times as much as anybody else would. You buy. We know who you buy the cannabis from, do you think we've no done an enquiry blah blah blah blah blah. We know who you bought the cannabis from, we know the amounts he sells it to you, we know the people that you sell it to a day after, we know that. You've lied about that, you've lied about all these knives, you say well I dinnae have these knives there's, as I say, 45 people telling us you had knives, you, are they all lying as well? These, the three people down the path, Alice, Steven and Janine, are they lying as well? That video reconstruction there shows that you could not have seen Jodi and recognise it as Jodi."

It will be seen from this purported question that, quite apart from its incoherence, the questioning officer sought to obtain a response on a range of disparate points. Yet, the appellant was given no opportunity to deal with each point as it was raised. Indeed, it is apparent to us from the nature of the questioning that the questioner did not seem to be seriously interested in the responses that separate parts of the question might evoke. One is driven to suppose that what was happening when questions, such as that quoted, were asked was that the questioning police officer was endeavouring to break the appellant down into giving some hoped-for confession by his overbearing and hostile interrogation. Examination of the parts of the interview objected to shows that the interviewing police officers asked a number of similar questions. We are driven to conclude that their purpose was as we have described.

From <https://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/search-judgments/judgment?id=e2988aa6-8980-69d2-b500-ff0000d74aa7>

I WAS investigations editor with The Herald newspapers at the time of the Jodi Jones murder, and I appear as a interviewee in the documentary Murder In A Small Town. In the run-up to the Mitchell trial I received a very strange phone call from a senior police officer in which I was told a number of unsubstantiated and shocking claims about Mitchell.
I was told Mitchell was definitely guilty. In all my years as a reporter –covering some of the most serious crimes in recent British criminal history, including major terrorist offences – I’ve never received such a phone call from police. A lot of the telephone conversation centred on Mitchell’s love of Goth music and his alternative lifestyle.
At the time, there was a moral panic around teenagers listening to music their parents found disagreeable. I wondered at the time if part of the Mitchell case was “the prosecution of a lifestyle”.
As a reporter, I later visited Mitchell in jail, and spoke with his mother. To this day, due to the circumstantial nature of the case, I cannot say whether I know for sure if Mitchell is guilty or innocent.
This I am sure of, though: if Mitchell did kill Jodi Jones then he deserves all he got for one of the most appalling crimes to ever take place in Scotland; however, if he didn’t, then not only is a monstrous killer still at large, but society did something terrible to a 15-year-old boy back in 2005.

From <https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/19106402.murder-small-town-luke-mitchell-innocent-murder-jodi-jones/>

Offline Fairplay1

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Re: why would they
« Reply #14 on: March 16, 2022, 12:25:PM »
Great post Fairplay1  I think you've covered some of them already but I'll post my list too.

Evidence gathering/crime scene management
Treating LM as a suspect from the start then denying that was the case.
Forensically examining LM as soon as possible but not even realising that the other 3 members of the search party were important witnesses too and not asking for their clothing until at least 3-4 days later.
Not having a proper identity parade. Showing witnesses a leading photo line up and even a picture of LM in the newspaper.
Naming Luke in the papers in relation to black magic, 'the violent world of gothic sub-culture' rituals and Satanism as early as 6th July.
Appointing an FLO while LM was being treated as a suspect.
Having advice from a criminal psychologist that Luke may self harm or reoffend in line with goth culture then releasing him with no protection in place for himself or the public.
Searching the house with the specific goal of finding Marilyn Manson related items.
Telling the press that the moped boys had been cleared of any involvement before any kind of forensic analysis had came back to definitively clear them.



Here's some further reading that highlights just some of the failures in this case.

From the Scotsman in 2005

But today as Mitchell was found guilty, Lothian and Borders Police’s hunch was proved right, although there was severe criticism of their handling of the investigation during the case.
There was no murder weapon, no blood covered clothes - despite the gruesome nature of the murder - and no damning DNA find.
There was not even convincing eye-witness testimony.
The trial heard that Jodi’s body was left uncovered and exposed to the elements for eight hours after it was first discovered, possibly risking the destruction of vital DNA evidence.
The schoolgirl’s body and items around it had been moved before the forensic team started work.
Even though the knife used to murder Jodi had not been found, the bins in the area were allowed to be emptied before a thorough search could be carried out.
The way police carried out a virtual identity parade, presenting photographs of Luke and other youths to one witness, was also criticised during the trial at the High Court in Edinburgh.
A string of incidents were highlighted by Mitchell’s defence lawyer Donald Findlay, QC, during the 42-day trial.
In one blistering courtroom attack, Mr Findlay described the behaviour of detectives as "a disgrace".
The court heard that the first forensic scientist to examine the crime scene arrived more than eight hours after Jodi's body was found. Not only had her body been left uncovered overnight in the rain, but it had also been moved and items around it moved before Derek Scrimger arrived at the scene.
Under questioning from Mr Findlay, Mr Scrimger was forced to admit that it was "not an ideally managed crime scene from the very start".
The forensic scientist said he believed that a tent should have been erected over the scene.
Mr Scrimger’s work was further delayed because an earlier female colleague had arrived at the scene, but could not get over the wall to get to the body because she had a bad back.
The jury also heard that a pioneering lab using the most sensitive DNA test in Britain failed to identify Mitchell as the
It also emerged that detectives probing the murder broke normal guidelines by not putting Mitchell on an ID parade.
Mr Findlay claimed "a tactical decision" had been taken not to treat the boy fairly.

From <https://www.scotsman.com/news/clues-snared-murderer-2470415>

From the 2008 appeal

[139] Counsel then proceeded to draw our attention to the transcript of the interview, from page 14 onwards. An example of the outrageous questioning conducted by the police interviewers was to be found at page 20 of the transcript. In the lengthy question on that page, numerous points had been put in a conflated manner, without the interviewer waiting for the suspect to give an answer. The inference was that the interviewer had not actually been interested in obtaining an answer to the various points in the question, but had rather been putting pressure upon the suspect, with a view to extracting some admission of significance from him. Similar questioning occurred at pages 21 and 22. At page 17, the suspect had, following a barrage of questions to which the questioner had not awaited any answer, conceded that his mother and brother had had a fire on the night of 30 June 2003 in the log burner in the back garden of the house where the suspect lived. At page 21 the suspect had, following multiple assertions by the questioner of knife-carrying by the suspect, agreed that a knife shown to him, Crown label production 301, was his fishing knife. More questioning of an unfair nature was to be found at page 25 of the transcript. At page 27 a further composite question was put making very serious allegations to the suspect. Much of the questioning was of a repetitive nature. At pages 28 to 29 there was more questioning of a bullying and badgering nature .

It was submitted that the police questioning was quite plainly a deliberate pre-planned attempt to provoke the appellant, which, it was hoped, would result in him incriminating himself. There could be no other explanation for the character of the questioning. It was evident from some of the appellant's answers that he had been riled and provoked by the police questioning into giving coarse and abusive answers to them, which might be thought to reflect badly upon him. In the course of some passages, police officers had put to the appellant suggestions that were not in fact vouched by any evidence in their possession.

An example of that was to be found at the bottom of page 40 of the transcript. The questioning at page 45 of the transcript concerning the finding of the body of the deceased was grotesquely unfair. That and the material at page 46 was crucial to the Crown's case and had been used by them. The Crown had also made use of the passage between pages 63 to 65 of the transcript, concerning the actions of the appellant after the deceased had not appeared for the meeting that he had contemplated would take place.

That had been preceded by more bullying questioning at pages 47 to 48 of the transcript. Passages at pages 53 and 55 demonstrated that the police had, quite simply, not been interested in receiving answers to their express questions; the questions were put in a bullying and overbearing manner, with the view to endeavouring to extracting damaging admissions from the appellant. On page 61 more inaccurate propositions had been put to the appellant. At page 70 there was a passage relating to the appellant's call to the speaking clock, upon which the Crown relied.

At page 65 of the transcript, the interview had reached a stage when Detective Sergeant David Gordon had entered the room. There followed what might be called the "good cop, bad cop" routine. That was quite simply a trick designed to extract an admission from the appellant. Associated with the arrival of Detective Sergeant Gordon the questioning had moved on to the alleged sexual satisfaction which the appellant might have enjoyed from killing the deceased.


[141] In elaborating his submission that the trial judge's decision to admit the parts of the interview objected to in evidence was wrong, counsel referred to Lord Advocate's Reference (No. 1 of 1983) 1984 J.C. 52. What had been said in that decision at page 58 could have been devised with this particular interview in mind. The police in the present case had fallen far short of all that was required of them. There had been unfairness, cross-examination, pressure, deception, or at least carelessness in questioning, and bullying. The police had plainly embarked upon a campaign to try to force a confession from the appellant. The trial judge had failed to recognise that state of affairs.

The appellant was on 14 August 2003 interviewed under caution by police officers. In the course of the trial the Crown sought to lead before the jury evidence of some but only a few of the questions and answers put and given in the course of that interview. Objection was taken on behalf of the appellant to that course of action but the objection was repelled by the trial judge. The challenge was renewed on appeal, it being maintained that the interview was conducted in circumstances which were wholly and manifestly unfair to the appellant. Having considered the transcript of the interview, we are driven to the conclusion that some of the questions put by the interviewing police officer can only be described as outrageous. At times the nature of the questioning was such that the questioner did not seem to be seriously interested in a response from the appellant but rather endeavouring to break him down into giving some hoped-for confession by his overbearing and hostile interrogation. Such conduct, particularly where the interviewee was a 15 year old youth, can only be deplored.


[152] Turning then to the decision of the trial judge, recorded in paragraph [168] of his report, it is to be noted that, although the appellant was but 15 years of age at the time of the interview, there was present at it, apart from the police officers involved, a senior social worker from the Dalkeith Social Work Department, who was there as a responsible adult, it being inappropriate that the appellant's mother should undertake that responsibility. Before coming to consider, so far as necessary, the details of the interview, it is appropriate to make some general observations. In that part of it which was objected to, commencing at page 12 of Crown production 44, undoubtedly some of the questions put by the police officers can only be described as outrageous. One of the clearest examples of what we mean is to be found at page 55 of the transcript. There, D.C.2, having shown to the suspect a video of the murder scene and having elicited from him certain answers, poses what purports to be a question as follows:

"You say you recognise it as Jodi and you say you can see that it had throat and you said you could see it was completely naked. Now what's nonsense cause you've just watched that and you cannae tell that, you say you can see you barely see something there. What you've said you're a liar, you're a liar. Everything you've been constantly lying to us all the way through this interview. You've lied to us about using cannabis - you use cannabis all the time, we've had loads of people tell us you use cannabis three times as much as anybody else would. You buy. We know who you buy the cannabis from, do you think we've no done an enquiry blah blah blah blah blah. We know who you bought the cannabis from, we know the amounts he sells it to you, we know the people that you sell it to a day after, we know that. You've lied about that, you've lied about all these knives, you say well I dinnae have these knives there's, as I say, 45 people telling us you had knives, you, are they all lying as well? These, the three people down the path, Alice, Steven and Janine, are they lying as well? That video reconstruction there shows that you could not have seen Jodi and recognise it as Jodi."

It will be seen from this purported question that, quite apart from its incoherence, the questioning officer sought to obtain a response on a range of disparate points. Yet, the appellant was given no opportunity to deal with each point as it was raised. Indeed, it is apparent to us from the nature of the questioning that the questioner did not seem to be seriously interested in the responses that separate parts of the question might evoke. One is driven to suppose that what was happening when questions, such as that quoted, were asked was that the questioning police officer was endeavouring to break the appellant down into giving some hoped-for confession by his overbearing and hostile interrogation. Examination of the parts of the interview objected to shows that the interviewing police officers asked a number of similar questions. We are driven to conclude that their purpose was as we have described.

From <https://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/search-judgments/judgment?id=e2988aa6-8980-69d2-b500-ff0000d74aa7>

I WAS investigations editor with The Herald newspapers at the time of the Jodi Jones murder, and I appear as a interviewee in the documentary Murder In A Small Town. In the run-up to the Mitchell trial I received a very strange phone call from a senior police officer in which I was told a number of unsubstantiated and shocking claims about Mitchell.
I was told Mitchell was definitely guilty. In all my years as a reporter –covering some of the most serious crimes in recent British criminal history, including major terrorist offences – I’ve never received such a phone call from police. A lot of the telephone conversation centred on Mitchell’s love of Goth music and his alternative lifestyle.
At the time, there was a moral panic around teenagers listening to music their parents found disagreeable. I wondered at the time if part of the Mitchell case was “the prosecution of a lifestyle”.
As a reporter, I later visited Mitchell in jail, and spoke with his mother. To this day, due to the circumstantial nature of the case, I cannot say whether I know for sure if Mitchell is guilty or innocent.
This I am sure of, though: if Mitchell did kill Jodi Jones then he deserves all he got for one of the most appalling crimes to ever take place in Scotland; however, if he didn’t, then not only is a monstrous killer still at large, but society did something terrible to a 15-year-old boy back in 2005.

From <https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/19106402.murder-small-town-luke-mitchell-innocent-murder-jodi-jones/>

Perfect and detailed supportive material with reference to court, articles to substantiate all the facts surrounding this case.

Dave this post is for you son , try and read it and not just discard it because it does not suit your belief, try your best to be fair and impartial and then come back to me and let me know if this is all nonsense and maybe you will get the point , this is not about two sides anymore this is about doing the RIGHT THING by Jodi, Luke and the Dalkeith community and the wider public in Scotland. They just have to test the evidence and everything else will follow suit .??