Author Topic: Sheilas Two Shots  (Read 28841 times)

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Offline snow66!

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Re: Sheilas Two Shots
« Reply #255 on: March 16, 2022, 02:52:PM »

You may call it "HALVED". Those with greater knowledge will call it and acceptable and appropriate dose.
But it was halved Jane,by those with greater knowledge.And by mistake,the dosage was supposed to be 150mg.

Offline Jane

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Re: Sheilas Two Shots
« Reply #256 on: March 16, 2022, 02:58:PM »
But it was halved Jane,by those with greater knowledge.And by mistake,the dosage was supposed to be 150mg.


This has already been discussed ad nauseum. The error has been pointed out, but whatever it is you're attempting to make of it, the dosage, be it accidental or deliberate, still fell within acceptable norms.

guest29835

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Re: Sheilas Two Shots
« Reply #257 on: March 16, 2022, 04:02:PM »
Thanks Gascoigne.So you agree there is no way of knowing what state of sedation Sheila was in that night,and Adams claims of severe drowsiness,allowing her to sleep through the massacre and be aesily manhandled are only speculation.This is just a convenient thing to use,to fit a JB scenario and explain why there is no signs of Sheila fighting for her life or anyone elses.Also,as you say,there was not much Haloperidol left in her system by 7 Aug.And Sheila was also prescribed Procyclidene tablets for the side effects.The bottle of tablets must have been found at the scene,and surely it would have been checked if Sheila had been taking them,by the amount used.Her mum and dad would have been told what meds she was taking, and it is reasonable to assume that they would have made sure she took them,when under their care.And as Jane pointed out,her unresponsiveness and lack of interest may have had more to do with her depression rather than being sedated with drugs.

Yes, the sedation theory comes under the heading of 'speculation'.  It has only gained legs because of slovenly terminology in Dr. Ferguson's witness statements, the lazy but widespread belief that somebody with impressive paper credentials must be right and should not be challenged, and the inattention of the defence, who should have instructed an expert pharmacologist or psychopharmacologist.  Sedation is possible with Haloperidol, but the idea that this was Sheila's state in this case is misinformed speculation in most cases, because most people are eliding two different neuro-pharmacological effects: in correct clinical language, tranquilisation and sedation are not the same thing.

There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that Sheila was sedated.  It is possible that she was as a side-effect of Haloperidol, and an informed argument could be made for the notion, but we will never be sure.

Sheila was certainly tranquilised.  That is the direct effect of the Haloperidol, it's what the drug is for.

The toxicology results are not my opinion.  They are what they are.  Sheila was virtually unmedicated by the time she was shot (whether by Jeremy or her own hand) and she had traces of illicit drugs in her system, suggesting the antipsychotic regimen was contraindicated.

The fact the medication dosage was halved is hugely significant and cannot be airily brushed aside.  This was medical negligence, pure and simple.   That is tacitly admitted.  I am not stating anything controversial here.  It is established medical canon that withdrawal from antipsychotics should be gradual.  Sudden withdrawal is dangerous.  Haloperidol is a dangerous enough drug as it is.

Bear in mind these points I am submitting neither assist nor undermine Jeremy's position.  I have no axe to grind.  I am merely reciting facts to you.

In a nutshell, some people on here are not looking at the case objectively.  Instead, they are stretching and twisting facts to suit their narrative. It's actually completely unnecessary to do this.  A creditable scenario in which Jeremy is guilty could be constructed without the need to rely on Sheila being sedated.  Ironically, if anything, it weakens the prosecution case to argue that position.

Offline Adam

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Re: Sheilas Two Shots
« Reply #258 on: March 16, 2022, 04:09:PM »
Yes,i fully understand all that you have said Jane,but the simple question is whether or not she was in a severely drowsy,sedated state to sleep through a shooting and have no strength to fight for her life.And it was Gascoigne who said she would not have much Haloperidol left in her system Jane,see his post above.

The evidence & WS's shows she was & didn't fight/shoot anyone. 

Bamber was going ahead. He only had a short window of opportjnity.

If everything went to plan, no one would wake. It was a 2am silent massacre attempt.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2022, 04:18:PM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Adam

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Re: Sheilas Two Shots
« Reply #259 on: March 16, 2022, 04:12:PM »
The evidence & WS's shows she was.

Bamber was going ahead. He only had a short window of opportjnity.

If everything went to plan, no one would wake. It was a silent massacre attempt.

If someone did wake, Bamber had to react. As he did with Nevill.

Bamber was so chuffed at Sheila's docile demenour during his reconnaissance, he rang Julie as soon as he got home.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Adam

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Re: Sheilas Two Shots
« Reply #260 on: March 16, 2022, 04:39:PM »
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1188.0.html

Even June seemed to be in control of Sheila a few hours before the massacre.

Taking the phone back without giving Sheila the chance to say goodbye.

Maybe June agreed with Bamber that Sheila was very docile at supper.
After 3 minutes of just saying 'yes/no' on the phone, she felt Sheila wouldn't bother saying goodbye anyway.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2022, 04:41:PM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Jane

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Re: Sheilas Two Shots
« Reply #261 on: March 16, 2022, 05:38:PM »
Yes,i fully understand all that you have said Jane,but the simple question is whether or not she was in a severely drowsy,sedated state to sleep through a shooting and have no strength to fight for her life.And it was Gascoigne who said she would not have much Haloperidol left in her system Jane,see his post above.

We can all make sweeping statements. It's of no use 'Gascoigne' trying to put over his personal views as fact. He needs to post the toxicology report and point to where it states that Sheila was barely medicated.

Offline killingeve

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Re: Sheilas Two Shots
« Reply #262 on: March 16, 2022, 07:17:PM »
How else is Sheila's resting state to be explained if not sedated?  Perfectly clean?  Undamaged nails/polish?  I think Mr Doutflour jnr is on record as saying "Not a hair out of place".  Etc, etc.

Also how did Sheila manage to overpower Mr Bamber in the kitchen?  And how did blood in the silencer, matching Sheila's groups, find its way deep inside the silencer if not by the drawback phenomenon when Bamber shot her?  All the pieces slot together with sedation being one of many hence Bamber's conviction has stood the test of time. 

guest29835

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Re: Sheilas Two Shots
« Reply #263 on: March 16, 2022, 07:33:PM »
We can all make sweeping statements. It's of no use 'Gascoigne' trying to put over his personal views as fact. He needs to post the toxicology report and point to where it states that Sheila was barely medicated.

I invite you to consider the toxicology report, which I was in possession of before I recently joined this Forum, and which I see has been posted on this Forum as well.  I have no need to post it.  You can find it, read it and refer to it as you please.  The report should be interpreted in light of the surrounding facts, including the date of Sheila's last intramuscular injection and the greatly reduced dosage received on that occasion. 

You are of course welcome to disagree.  I do not wish to argue with you about this or anything else.  I am not coming on here with an agenda.

Offline Jane

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Re: Sheilas Two Shots
« Reply #264 on: March 16, 2022, 07:48:PM »
I invite you to consider the toxicology report, which I was in possession of before I recently joined this Forum, and which I see has been posted on this Forum as well.  I have no need to post it.  You can find it, read it and refer to it as you please.  The report should be interpreted in light of the surrounding facts, including the date of Sheila's last intramuscular injection and the greatly reduced dosage received on that occasion. 

You are of course welcome to disagree.  I do not wish to argue with you about this or anything else.  I am not coming on here with an agenda.


I think you do. You can't just tell the forum that you've seen a report which claims X,Y, or Z. How does the forum know you're telling the truth? You may just be interpreting it to suit yourself.


Offline snow66!

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Re: Sheilas Two Shots
« Reply #265 on: March 16, 2022, 08:44:PM »
Bamber Gascoigne

Offline snow66!

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Re: Sheilas Two Shots
« Reply #266 on: March 16, 2022, 08:51:PM »
Dustin Gee did an impersonation of Bamber Gascoigne in Russ Abbots madhouse.

Offline snow66!

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Re: Sheilas Two Shots
« Reply #267 on: March 16, 2022, 08:54:PM »
Griff Rhys Jones did an impersonation of Bamber Gascoigne in The young ones.

Offline snow66!

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Re: Sheilas Two Shots
« Reply #268 on: March 16, 2022, 08:59:PM »
Coincidentally,the episode of The young ones in which Griff appeared as Bamber Gascoigne was entitled -Bambie

Offline snow66!

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Re: Sheilas Two Shots
« Reply #269 on: March 16, 2022, 09:01:PM »
Soory---Bambi