Author Topic: None of JJ’s DNA found on LM’s bomber jacket?  (Read 3952 times)

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Offline Germane

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None of JJ’s DNA found on LM’s bomber jacket?
« on: February 21, 2022, 08:34:AM »
The general consensus is that LM was wearing the same clothes all day on 30.06.03, before they were confiscated by L&B police at Dalkeith police station in the early hours of 01.07.03 (the green bomber jacket, black t-shirt, black, baggy jeans and distinctive white snowboarding boots). Now, given he and JJ were in an intimate relationship and were in school with each other earlier that day, it’s staggering that absolutely no traces of her DNA were found on his aforementioned confiscated clothing. Unless, of course, they hadn’t been in contact with each other that day. It’s common knowledge that they had been arguing that day in school and weren’t talking to one another in school that day, so perhaps this explains the lack of DNA? Would still be highly unlikely, given they were an intimate couple and likely had some contact, no matter how brief it was. Besides, JJ’s phone was broken that day and she probably used Luke’s at some point — maybe when she used his phone she noticed the communications from Kimberley Thomson? Anyway, it’s most odd that no traces of her DNA were found on the clothes he was supposedly wearing all that day. Btw, were there any witnesses who testified in court that LM had been wearing those same clothes at school that day? Pernaps he wasn’t wearing those clothes at school?

Your thoughts?

ps: we know about another pair of trousers that were confiscated from LM’s house with innocent transfer and that were nothing to do with the murder ... this is NOT what we are discussing here.

Offline Bubo bubo

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Re: None of JJ’s DNA found on LM’s bomber jacket?
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2022, 08:47:AM »
The general consensus is that LM was wearing the same clothes all day on 30.06.03, before they were confiscated by L&B police at Dalkeith police station in the early hours of 01.07.03 (the green bomber jacket, black t-shirt, black, baggy jeans and distinctive white snowboarding boots). Now, given he and JJ were in an intimate relationship and were in school with each other earlier that day, it’s staggering that absolutely no traces of her DNA were found on his aforementioned confiscated clothing. Unless, of course, they hadn’t been in contact with each other that day. It’s common knowledge that they had been arguing that day in school and weren’t talking to one another in school that day, so perhaps this explains the lack of DNA? Would still be highly unlikely, given they were an intimate couple and likely had some contact, no matter how brief it was. Besides, JJ’s phone was broken that day and she probably used Luke’s at some point — maybe when she used his phone she noticed the communications from Kimberley Thomson? Anyway, it’s most odd that no traces of her DNA were found on the clothes he was supposedly wearing all that day. Btw, were there any witnesses who testified in court that LM had been wearing those same clothes at school that day? Pernaps he wasn’t wearing those clothes at school?

Your thoughts?

ps: we know about another pair of trousers that were confiscated from LM’s house with innocent transfer and that were nothing to do with the murder ... this is NOT what we are discussing here.

It was summer and I know it is colder in this part of the world however I would suggest that he would not be wearing his jacket all day. If his meetings with her were frosty as you say they may not have made physical contact.

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: None of JJ’s DNA found on LM’s bomber jacket?
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2022, 09:53:AM »
I think the allegation is that he changed out of his clothes post-murder, showered and put on different apparel. Didn't the moped boys claim he looked cleaner than usual that evening? The police also claimed that under interrogation he made reference to a clasp in Jodie's hair, which would have been invisible to the naked eye at the time of the body's discovery.

Offline Germane

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Re: None of JJ’s DNA found on LM’s bomber jacket?
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2022, 11:00:AM »
It was summer and I know it is colder in this part of the world however I would suggest that he would not be wearing his jacket all day. If his meetings with her were frosty as you say they may not have made physical contact.

Sorry, I should have been clearer in my thread title: why weren’t there any dna traces from JJ on any of his clothing that was confiscated (clothes that he had allegedly been wearing all day — jacket, t-shirt, jeans and boots)? So, even if he wasn’t wearing the jacket all day, presumably traces of Jodi’s DNA would’ve been on his t-shirt or jeans that he’d been wearing all day up until they were confiscated by police at Dalkeith police station in the early hours of 01.07.03?

Incidentally, there were quite a lot partial traces of Luke’s DNA found on Jodi’s clothing (on her bra and underwear), but it couldn’t be used as evidence as they were an intimate couple — and because of the fact they were only partial profiles of LM were found on Jodi. There were quite a few partials found from lm on the items that were tested, so lm couldn’t be totally ruled out as the donor, and nor could it be used as evidence; it seems he got lucky in this respect as the dna was so badly contaminated from rain and piling all the clothes together at the soc instead of bagging them individually. He was forensically aware (wouldn’t go back to jodi’s body when the police asked him to, instead citing he was too traumatised; he knew that’s where most of her blood was and knew he risked getting it on his trainers if he went back to the soc .... he even said later that the police ‘tried to get him back over the V gap so his dna was there!). Also, he was forensically aware enough to get rid of his parka jacket and whatever else he was wearing when he met Jodi at 1655, and also aware enough to not leave any incriminating dna on himself or in his house (initially cleaning up at river between 1740-1800 and then cleaning further again between 1820 and 1930 — either at the river again or at home somewhere — before he met David High and the two other boys at the abbey.

Offline Germane

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Re: None of JJ’s DNA found on LM’s bomber jacket?
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2022, 11:49:AM »
I think the allegation is that he changed out of his clothes post-murder, showered and put on different apparel. Didn't the moped boys claim he looked cleaner than usual that evening? The police also claimed that under interrogation he made reference to a clasp in Jodie's hair, which would have been invisible to the naked eye at the time of the body's discovery.

Yes, I think he most definitely disposed of his clothing and footwear on the evening of 30.06.03, but not so sure he got showered (as that would’ve left dna traces in his house; the police dismantled the plumbing system from his house for forensic examination and found nothing). I think he used the small rivers in the woodland behind that gate where he was seen by LF & RW at 1740ish. Think he used it between 1740-1800 and again between 1820-1930, before he met up with the boys at the abbey (David High, David Tulloch and one other boy .... see cite below). It was these 3 boys who said that he was a lot cleaner looking than his normal scruffy self that night, not the boys on the moped. Yes, he gave a very exact description of all of Jodi’s clothing and footwear (trainers), to the extent that it allowed the police to formulate the theory that jodi borrowed her sister Janine’s t-shirt that had a full profile from Stephen Kelly’s sperm that was innocently transferred during a washing machine cycle (transfer in washing machine has been proven to happen many times, that’s why it was accepted by the crown).

https://www.thefreelibrary.com/I+FEEL+SICK%3b+JODI+JONES%3a+THE+AFTERMATH+EXCLUSIVE%3a+Pal+reveals...-a0127512565


Offline nugnug

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Re: None of JJ’s DNA found on LM’s bomber jacket?
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2022, 02:21:PM »
I think the allegation is that he changed out of his clothes post-murder, showered and put on different apparel. Didn't the moped boys claim he looked cleaner than usual that evening? The police also claimed that under interrogation he made reference to a clasp in Jodie's hair, which would have been invisible to the naked eye at the time of the body's discovery.

only dident shower becouse he wass seen later that night and hes hair was dirty.

Offline Bubo bubo

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Re: None of JJ’s DNA found on LM’s bomber jacket?
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2022, 03:26:PM »
Sorry, I should have been clearer in my thread title: why weren’t there any dna traces from JJ on any of his clothing that was confiscated (clothes that he had allegedly been wearing all day — jacket, t-shirt, jeans and boots)? So, even if he wasn’t wearing the jacket all day, presumably traces of Jodi’s DNA would’ve been on his t-shirt or jeans that he’d been wearing all day up until they were confiscated by police at Dalkeith police station in the early hours of 01.07.03?

Incidentally, there were quite a lot partial traces of Luke’s DNA found on Jodi’s clothing (on her bra and underwear), but it couldn’t be used as evidence as they were an intimate couple — and because of the fact they were only partial profiles of LM were found on Jodi. There were quite a few partials found from lm on the items that were tested, so lm couldn’t be totally ruled out as the donor, and nor could it be used as evidence; it seems he got lucky in this respect as the dna was so badly contaminated from rain and piling all the clothes together at the soc instead of bagging them individually. He was forensically aware (wouldn’t go back to jodi’s body when the police asked him to, instead citing he was too traumatised; he knew that’s where most of her blood was and knew he risked getting it on his trainers if he went back to the soc .... he even said later that the police ‘tried to get him back over the V gap so his dna was there!). Also, he was forensically aware enough to get rid of his parka jacket and whatever else he was wearing when he met Jodi at 1655, and also aware enough to not leave any incriminating dna on himself or in his house (initially cleaning up at river between 1740-1800 and then cleaning further again between 1820 and 1930 — either at the river again or at home somewhere — before he met David High and the two other boys at the abbey.

I do not understand why I am answering this painfully puerile post. You haven't  even  read my original post which explains why he may not have been in close contact with her all day. You even seem to have forgotten my previous posts. He did not get lucky. There was other unidentified DNA found and that was not removed by the conditions and I think it natural that a 14 year old boy would not wish to return to the dead body of his girlfriend.
The rest is just a rehash of other ideas which have no evidential value. You are just telling a story that suits your position on the case.

Offline Germane

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Re: None of JJ’s DNA found on LM’s bomber jacket?
« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2022, 03:00:AM »
I do not understand why I am answering this painfully puerile post. You haven't  even  read my original post which explains why he may not have been in close contact with her all day. You even seem to have forgotten my previous posts. He did not get lucky. There was other unidentified DNA found and that was not removed by the conditions and I think it natural that a 14 year old boy would not wish to return to the dead body of his girlfriend.
The rest is just a rehash of other ideas which have no evidential value. You are just telling a story that suits your position on the case.

I am merely a neutral armchair detective on here, posting an opinion based on info I’ve gleaned from SL’s IB, various message boards that discuss the case and official online documents from Scottish Courts. The Scottish courts documents, though useful and accurate, are only brief summaries of the case; the original trial was, for many years, the longest ever trial of a single-accused in Scottish legal history and was a very complex circumstantial case that nobody on the planet knows a great deal about, with the exception of a couple of people. Everybody else, yourself included, Bubo bubo, is merely left to speculate, infer and formulate theories based on the limited info that is avaliable in the public domain about the case. So, essentially, no one on this forum, or anywhere in the world, for that matter, is qualified to answer questions on this case. Even the individuals best placed and best qualified to pass judgement on the case — Judge Lord Nimmo Smith, Alan Turnbull and Donald Findlay — aren’t, strictly speaking, ever going to be 100% certain it was LM who did it, since it was a purely circumstantial case (they may all be 98/99% sure it was him, but they can never be 100% sure). The only way we’ll ever know is if the killer confesses, and, imo, LM is the killer. He may well be innocent, but I’d be extremely surprised — incredulous, even — if he was innocent. For the circumstantial evidence against him was overwhelming, imo.

Anyway, which original post are you referring to? Why should I read all of your posts? Who are you? I’m too busy to read all of your posts. I post from an iphone, which obviously takes longer than a tablet, laptop, pc, etc. Unidentified profiles?? Jodi was in a woodland which was frequented by loads of youths who drank and smoked cannabis, young courting couples having sex, drug dealers, dog walkers, etc, etc. Of course there would be innocently transferred unidentified profiles; it was inevitable. There were enough partial profiles and markers from LM to the extent he could not be ruled out as a donor of the dna found on Jodi’s clothing. I think it natural that a 14 year old boy would not wish to return to the dead body of his girlfriend? Sure, but we’ve highlighted many times on many forums that LM was not a normal teenager, and nor was he traumatised. For example, he was calm at the locus, emotionless on the phone to police and emergency services when telling them about the body, was texting away casually on his phone at the locus just after finding the body (as noted by the ambulance crew and police), didn’t reach out to his family upon the discovery of the body, was completely emotionless during the sky interview, was at jodi’s graveside with a new girlfriend on the day of the funeral, watched a violent and graphic marilyn manson dvd just days after jodi’s death, wanted to be back at school immediately, swaggering around town living off his notoriety during the investigation, goading police during interviews (a senior social worker noted that at no point did he have to intervene during his police interrogations as lm held his own and gave as good as he got; cd was astonished at how easily lm took control of the police interviews and interrogations, despite never being involved in the legal process before).
« Last Edit: February 22, 2022, 03:38:AM by Germane »

Offline Fairplay1

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Re: None of JJ’s DNA found on LM’s bomber jacket?
« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2022, 08:47:PM »
Not only did his clothing that he was wearing not have any of JJ's DNA but nothing was found on his body, hair , nails or his house.  This must be answered with logical explanation , the forensic results notably held no conclusive results of Luke however their was body fluid found from Jodi sister boyfriend .  I find this most puzzling why nothing of an incriminating nature from Luke but a full profile of a member of the search party, the rain must have washed all of Luke's away but left others.🤔  Also Jodi trousers that where used to tie her hands behind her back , DNA deposits on the zip, button and inside leg not belonging to Luke but to this day has had no name assigned to it.  The lack of "REAL" evidence on Jodi pointing to Luke is one of the biggest areas that point to an incorrect judgement.  It will be a matter of time and this evidence will be re-examined to bring a more conclusive result , this must be done to bring a conclusion to this and most importantly to ensure Jodi has some real justice.  No matter what side of this we are on we should all want this for Jodi, continue to support a police investigation that  is beyond poor is the worst miscarriage not only to Luke Mitchel but to the wee girl who lost her life so brutally

Offline Germane

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Re: None of JJ’s DNA found on LM’s bomber jacket?
« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2022, 01:18:AM »
Not only did his clothing that he was wearing not have any of JJ's DNA but nothing was found on his body, hair , nails or his house.  This must be answered with logical explanation , the forensic results notably held no conclusive results of Luke however their was body fluid found from Jodi sister boyfriend .  I find this most puzzling why nothing of an incriminating nature from Luke but a full profile of a member of the search party, the rain must have washed all of Luke's away but left others.🤔  Also Jodi trousers that where used to tie her hands behind her back , DNA deposits on the zip, button and inside leg not belonging to Luke but to this day has had no name assigned to it.  The lack of "REAL" evidence on Jodi pointing to Luke is one of the biggest areas that point to an incorrect judgement.  It will be a matter of time and this evidence will be re-examined to bring a more conclusive result , this must be done to bring a conclusion to this and most importantly to ensure Jodi has some real justice.  No matter what side of this we are on we should all want this for Jodi, continue to support a police investigation that  is beyond poor is the worst miscarriage not only to Luke Mitchel but to the wee girl who lost her life so brutally

The presence of SK’s DNA (semen) on the t-shirt JOdJ was wearing that evening has been explained away as such: jodj borrowed her sister Janine’s t-shirt and, although freshly washed, the semen stain survived the wash cycle (this has been scientifically proven) and then it migrated to other areas of clothing through rain water diffusion. It was actually LM who told police that the t-shirt Jodi was wearing was borrowed from Janine, which in itself was strange, since he allegedly hadn’t seen her after school or that evening, and plus he was, according to police, too far away from the clothes and body (when he went through the v and turned left) to make an id like that in the pitch black of night (he only had a standard torch). More to the point, why on earth would Janine alibi her boyfriend when her own sister had been brutally murdered? She and Jodi were close (they were a close family) and she and SK were only 17, so it wasn’t as though they were so deeply in love that she’d be willing to lie for him and alibi him. It doesn’t make sense.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2022, 01:21:AM by Germane »

Offline Davie2

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Re: None of JJ’s DNA found on LM’s bomber jacket?
« Reply #10 on: March 10, 2022, 04:30:PM »
More to the point, why on earth would Janine alibi her boyfriend when her own sister had been brutally murdered? She and Jodi were close (they were a close family) and she and SK were only 17, so it wasn’t as though they were so deeply in love that she’d be willing to lie for him and alibi him. It doesn’t make sense.

And after they split up, do you think she would still vouch for him?


Offline Germane

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Re: None of JJ’s DNA found on LM’s bomber jacket?
« Reply #11 on: March 10, 2022, 04:45:PM »
And after they split up, do you think she would still vouch for him?

Hi, Davie2. Great point. I am not from the Midlothian area, so I do not know what became of that couple. The inference from your post is that they have since split up, and JANJ still alibis SK? Thought so. So, there you have it — definitely not SK who murdered JodJ.

Offline Davie2

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Re: None of JJ’s DNA found on LM’s bomber jacket?
« Reply #12 on: March 10, 2022, 06:32:PM »
Hi, Davie2. Great point. I am not from the Midlothian area, so I do not know what became of that couple. The inference from your post is that they have since split up, and JANJ still alibis SK? Thought so. So, there you have it — definitely not SK who murdered JodJ.

Split up, not long after. I can't remember the in's and out's. My notes are on my other laptop, that gave up on me, which is a shame.

The fact is, that those Pro-Mitchell supporters cannot accept/ignore/denial that it is possible that sperm, CAN be transferred in a washing cycle, as you say (proven). They also like to sensationalize this sperm, what they ignore or fail to tell their audience, is that it was old and there was very little of it, a few specs of sperm, naked to the human eye. When you consider, an ejaculation can produce from 50 million to 100's of millions of sperm heads. It would be all over the place, But only a few were found. Why they continue to bark up this tree is beyond me. But hey, i guess they have a story to sell. 

Offline Fairplay1

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Re: None of JJ’s DNA found on LM’s bomber jacket?
« Reply #13 on: March 11, 2022, 01:17:PM »
Split up, not long after. I can't remember the in's and out's. My notes are on my other laptop, that gave up on me, which is a shame.

The fact is, that those Pro-Mitchell supporters cannot accept/ignore/denial that it is possible that sperm, CAN be transferred in a washing cycle, as you say (proven). They also like to sensationalize this sperm, what they ignore or fail to tell their audience, is that it was old and there was very little of it, a few specs of sperm, naked to the human eye. When you consider, an ejaculation can produce from 50 million to 100's of millions of sperm heads. It would be all over the place, But only a few were found. Why they continue to bark up this tree is beyond me. But hey, i guess they have a story to sell.


Ahh we are back at the innocent reason why SK body fluid sperm not spit or trace was on the borrowed tshirt, the tshirt that the sister had 2 of and Jodi is off to meet her boyfriend with what must have been stained and maybe a tad smelly she chooses that tshirt with the spunk on it to go meet her boyfriend. The proof you talk of may be possible but why is Janine DNA not on tshirt, that would be supportive for me.  Yeah I need this reexamined with an independent expert to explain this , I and many others are not satisfied I need it clarified.

Offline Davie2

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Re: None of JJ’s DNA found on LM’s bomber jacket?
« Reply #14 on: March 11, 2022, 04:45:PM »

Ahh we are back at the innocent reason why SK body fluid sperm not spit or trace was on the borrowed tshirt, the tshirt that the sister had 2 of and Jodi is off to meet her boyfriend with what must have been stained and maybe a tad smelly she chooses that tshirt with the spunk on it to go meet her boyfriend. The proof you talk of may be possible but why is Janine DNA not on tshirt, that would be supportive for me.  Yeah I need this reexamined with an independent expert to explain this , I and many others are not satisfied I need it clarified.

You just proved my point "accept/ignore/denial"

If this is the level of intellect, that has Mitchell's back. Then he truly has no hope.