The drop / pendant earring...

[snow66!]

Snow, in AE's statement, she said three buckets.

Thanks Lookout,I did not know that,will check it out.

[Jane]

Check my questions to David and then compare David's answers in response. How am I wrong in asserting that my questions to him have substance, whereas his answers lack substance? Sorry Jane but you come across like you don't want to understand this issue.

I can certainly see that you believe your questions have substance........

I did not see your post. However, I think it's possible regarding your suggestion that June might have been wounded when she struggled with Sheila.  Sheila fought without the impediment of gunshot wounds. She probably also had the element of surprise. In addition to this, how could Nevill and June have predicted the lethality of her assault? I imagine that it would have been a nightmare for June and Nevill, in the most horrifying sense of that term.

........I can also see that some of your posts, on this subject, are becoming "off the wall" in desperate attempts to find something which points to JB's innocence. What you offer is pure conjecture, ie, it could be X, it could be Y, it might even be Z, leaving me uncertain about whether you really care, OR whether it's another opportunity to have a dig at "Establishment"

[Roch]

I can certainly see that you believe your questions have substance........

........I can also see that some of your posts, on this subject, are becoming "off the wall" in desperate attempts to find something which points to JB's innocence. What you offer is pure conjecture, ie, it could be X, it could be Y, it might even be Z, leaving me uncertain about whether you really care, OR whether it's another opportunity to have a dig at "Establishment"

No Jane, it's pretty simple.

If you believe the dark spots are the end of the process, then you must believe that the underside of Sheila's wrist is the begining of the process. Therefore - you have to work out how and when the blood was transferred to the underside of the wrist.

If you believe that Sheila was killed by two shots in quick succession, then you have to factor-in that limited time frame and circs, when working out how the blood transferred to the underside of her wrist.

If however you believe that bloodstains don't of themselves puncture skin, and the dark spots are the source of the blood trails, then you must believe that underside of her wrist is the end of the process.

When factoring in that June is one of two possible assailants who could have caused such wounds, you have to take in to account that June herself received gunshot wounds. Then you have to consider whether or not June was capable of putting up a fight after having received any of her shots. 

The only weapons June had were her own fingernails.

[snow66!]

Snow, in AE's statement, she said three buckets.

Hi Lookout,yes I finally found it in her statement.My lord,her second statement is just about her WHOLE life story,its like a novelette.

[Jane]

No Jane, it's pretty simple.

If you believe the dark spots are the end of the process, then you must believe that the underside of Sheila's wrist is the begining of the process. Therefore - you have to work out how and when the blood was transferred to the underside of the wrist.

If you believe that Sheila was killed by two shots in quick succession, then you have to factor-in that limited time frame and circs, when working out how the blood transferred to the underside of her wrist.

If however you believe that bloodstains don't of themselves puncture skin, and the dark spots are the source of the blood trails, then you must believe that underside of her wrist is the end of the process.

When factoring in that June is one of two possible assailants who could have caused such wounds, you have to take in to account that June herself received gunshot wounds. Then you have to consider whether or not June was capable of putting up a fight after having received any of her shots. 

The only weapons June had were her own fingernails.

And do we have evidence of June's fingernails being long enough to inflict wounds deep enough to run with blood?

[lookout]

And do we have evidence of June's fingernails being long enough to inflict wounds deep enough to run with blood?

Sorry Jane, but the fingernails don't have to be like talons to inflict injuries. Pressure used by having short nails digging in can induce painful depressed injuries as they have to use more force.

[lookout]

Except nails that are bitten right down, but I can't imagine that June had that nasty habit.

Come to think, were the indentations ever measured ? I doubt it somehow.

[Roch]

And do we have evidence of June's fingernails being long enough to inflict wounds deep enough to run with blood?

We have evidence that Jeremy's fingernails weren't long. Neither is it the police case that Jeremy inflicted fingernail marks on Sheila's wrist.

Therefore we can safely assume that either Nevill or June were responsible for the wounds. It's interesting that Nevill has marks on his forum which Vanezis attributed to the rifle barrel (without a silencer). Evrn though not a single person on here can provide an explanation for how Sheila or Jeremy could achieve that on Nevill's forearm. David's claim that Nevill shielded his face being the closest attempt.

[David1819]

We have evidence that Jeremy's fingernails weren't long. Neither is it the police case that Jeremy inflicted fingernail marks on Sheila's wrist.

Therefore we can safely assume that either Nevill or June were responsible for the wounds. It's interesting that Nevill has marks on his forum which Vanezis attributed to the rifle barrel (without a silencer). Evrn though not a single person on here can provide an explanation for how Sheila or Jeremy could achieve that on Nevill's forearm. David's claim that Nevill shielded his face being the closest attempt.

Bernard Knight came to the same conclusion a Vanezis.

Cross examination by Arlidge QC.

"Q. Can you see the roundish marks that are there? Roundish,
small bruising marks?
A. Yes.
Q. Are those the sort of things you would expect from
someone being prodded?
A. The upper ones are obviously from impact of a linear or rod
like object.
Q. What looks as if it has happened on the upper ones is that
someone has jabbed at something long and thin and it has
gone right across the skin, has it not?
A. Yes. Some of this peeling is obviously post mortem, but the
other ones are just bruises. They are so non-specific one
cannot tell what caused them.
Q. But you have got one lot where you can see that something
has been jabbed at the person
A. Yes."

[Jane]

We have evidence that Jeremy's fingernails weren't long. Neither is it the police case that Jeremy inflicted fingernail marks on Sheila's wrist.

Therefore we can safely assume that either Nevill or June were responsible for the wounds. It's interesting that Nevill has marks on his forum which Vanezis attributed to the rifle barrel (without a silencer). Evrn though not a single person on here can provide an explanation for how Sheila or Jeremy could achieve that on Nevill's forearm. David's claim that Nevill shielded his face being the closest attempt.

If you're going to insist in the claim that the marks on Sheila's arm were inflicted by fingernails, I feel justified in putting forward the suggestion of them being her own.

[Roch]

If you're going to insist in the claim that the marks on Sheila's arm were inflicted by fingernails, I feel justified in putting forward the suggestion of them being her own.

You can put forward this suggestion. But I'm not sure how feasible it is.

[lookout]

Self-harm goes with the condition that Sheila had.

[Steve_uk]

Strange how the contact marks between Sheila and June or Sheila and Nevill never damaged her nail varnish in the slightest.

[lookout]

Strange how the contact marks between Sheila and June or Sheila and Nevill never damaged her nail varnish in the slightest.

Steve,it wouldn't have damaged the nail varnish. It's impervious when it comes to digging in flesh.

[lookout]

Sheila had used false nails. Were they applied after the murders ? If so, what about the state of her natural nails before they were covered ? One such false nail had been found by AE which either couldn't have adhered properly or had fallen out of its container before being applied.

The fingernail gouges which were found would have been before the false nails were applied as the false nails would have left more prominent pierced marks due to their shape . The nail marks that we see were made with shorter nails which gave more of a grip.

A reason why Sheila had appeared to have had perfectly manicured nails ! In the aftermath of the killings, Sheila had showered,changed into her nightdress and gave herself a manicure.