The drop / pendant earring...

[Adam]

Hi Adam,hope you are fine.You know that is not true,both Sheila and June were found before the twins.Of course Shaws draft is biased,but most of it CAN be backed up by factual documentation.

How do you know?

[Adam]

But like most,Shaw does not give a definitive reason why JB was framed in the end.

It would be an industrial frame involving hundreds of people.

[David1819]

Good evening Dave,i myself at the moment dont know what to think.The two bodies in the kitchen may have been an honest mistake if it wasnt for the fact that there is written documentation that a further three bodies were found upstairs to corroborate the fact.This has never been explained satisfactorily as far as i can see,and if true you have to lean towards a conspiracy theory of sum sort,because the police knew Sheila was alive on entry.Obviously with this scenario the cover up would have been to hide the police failures.I am more inclined to think that through time and with pressure from the relatives the police,or at least some of them were convinced rightly or wrongly of JBs guilt.Although obviously one officer was convinced of his guilt from the start too,but only through JBs behaviour,nothing else.In the end i believe JB WAS framed for the murders with some of the police genuinely thinking he was 100 percent guilty while others still believed he was innocent.I trust you have read 'David Shaws,an innocent man',i think his account of events is quite good at showing how those involved conspired behind JBs back to bring him down.And shaw brings up things like the second damaged rifle that Davidson saw in the kitchen,which he spoke of in his colp interview,You can find refference to this in the colp transcript that Mike has posted in the Archive as you know.And there are many other things like the note from Sheilas room ,of which Davidson said he could not remember what was written,also the hand swabs combined with the plastic bags to make room for four extra bullets or casings,which is all documented.Anthony Partegers licence for his rifle apparantly being moved to his own adress just prior to the trajedy and so on.Anyway,i dont know what your stance is at the moment Dave,but with the amount of anomalies and dodgy suspicious things that have happened with the JB case,i will always have reasonable doubt unless he does confess some day.

There is no report of two bodies in the kitchen. Its been debunked time and time again.

[Adam]

Supporters take sections of a radio log transcript in isolation -

'Conversations with person inside WHF'.

'One female in kitchen'.

'One male in kitchen'.

'Three bodies upstairs'.

[snow66!]

There is no report of two bodies in the kitchen. Its been debunked time and time again.

Has it been debunked Dave,didnt the log say 'two bodies found in kitchen UPON ENTRY' then a further three bodies found upstairs.

[snow66!]

How do you know?

Its in the raid team statements the order in which they are found Adam.

[snow66!]

It would be an industrial frame involving hundreds of people.

I dont think Shaw mentioned the two bodies in the kitchen Adam.I dont think he was suggesting an industrial frame,more a case of the relatives and the police ganging up on the wrong person,framing JB because they thought he was genuinely guilty.The biggest problem being an out of control officer determined to get JB by fair means or foul,with most turning a blind eye to the fact.

[snow66!]

Hello casual browsers,as you can see the JB forum has been quiet for a few days.That is because the members are all sending each other PM's,yes thats private messages,oh yes they are all in different groups posting back and forth havering utter nonsense,claiming they have conclusively solved the case.None of them pm me however,they pretended i was welcome on the forum,when in reality they are calling me all the names under the sun behind my back Oh well never mind,let us talk among ourselves.What word do you think came in to my head the other day? It is a word i haven't heard for a long time for some reason.That word is 'gadgie',yes 'gadgie',it is a word i find amusing in my tiny little mind.It has different meanings around the country,but where i am it basically means geezer or someone who is slightly dodgy.I dont know what it means where you come from.I hope the word makes you smile too.Anyway thats the kind of thing you have to think about when no one pm's you.Well goodnight for now casual browsers and sleep well.

Hello again Guests and casual browsers,let us resume our discussion about the word 'gadgie' particularly in relation to Jeremy Bamber.It seems the word is rarely used in the Essex area or indeed much of the south of England.But we must remember that JB has been housed for a number of years in the north of England ,he now resides in HM prison Wakefield,and before that HM prison Full Sutton.Now surely many of the prison guards will be from the local area and will be using the word 'gadgie' on a regular basis.They may even refer to JB as the Whitehouse Farm gadgie.What do you think? imagine this,someone goes to visit JB and one prison officer shouts to another one,hoy! theres a gadgie here to visit that gadgie Jeremy Bamber.Indeed JB may have been up north for so long that he uses the word on a regular basis now.If you were a fly on the wall,you may hear him on the phone saying something like,'i get on very well with the gadgie in the next cell'.What do you think,would it be worth writing to him to enquire? If so you can write to JB at HM prison Wakefield,full adress is available on the official JB campaign site or can be found on some of the JB podcasts.Oh well,that ends our discussion about the word 'gadgie',hope you have enjoyed it and are not simply left bewildered.Anyway,bye for now guests and casual browsers,sleep well.

[Adam]

Its in the raid team statements the order in which they are found Adam.

You need to provide the source.

Do you think Sheila was in the kitchen still alive when the raid team entered WHF? I thought she wanted to commit murder/suicide.

[snow66!]

You need to provide the source.

Do you think Sheila was in the kitchen still alive when the raid team entered WHF? I thought she wanted to commit murder/suicide.

Good day Adam.PC Delgado 7th Aug statement for one gives the order.June first then Crispy then Sheila, 'we then continued our search of the upstairs.On entering the childrens bedroom i saw the bodies of two male children both aged about 6 years'. So unless you add Crispy to the equation its hard to see where a three comes in to it.Unless we simply go by the logs,two bodies in kitchen 'UPON ENTRY' a further 'THREE' bodies upstairs.What do you think Adam?So do i believe Sheila was alive in the kitchen upon entry,i think its quite possible.

[Adam]

Good day Adam.PC Delgado 7th Aug statement for one gives the order.June first then Crispy then Sheila, 'we then continued our search of the upstairs.On entering the childrens bedroom i saw the bodies of two male children both aged about 6 years'. So unless you add Crispy to the equation its hard to see where a three comes in to it.Unless we simply go by the logs,two bodies in kitchen 'UPON ENTRY' a further 'THREE' bodies upstairs.What do you think Adam?So do i believe Sheila was alive in the kitchen upon entry,i think its quite possible.

What happened after the raid entered WHF. With Sheila in the kitchen,  alive & fully fit? 

[snow66!]

What happened after the raid entered WHF. With Sheila in the kitchen,  alive & fully fit?

I have no idea Adam,Mike thinks the raid team shot her,Bambergate thinks Sheila shot herself with the air rifle as the raid team entered,regained conciuosness and ran up the service stairs to shoot herself with the 22 rifle.Others will have different ideas.

[Adam]

I have no idea Adam,Mike thinks the raid team shot her,Bambergate thinks Sheila shot herself with the air rifle as the raid team entered,regained conciuosness and ran up the service stairs to shoot herself with the 22 rifle.Others will have different ideas.

You must have a scenario to match your opinion.

The blood evidence on Sheila's nightdress shows she did not stand up after the first shot. So would have to be fully fit in the kitchen.

[snow66!]

You must have a scenario to match your opinion.

The blood evidence on Sheila's nightdress shows she did not stand up after the first shot. So would have to be fully fit in the kitchen.

Yes thats a good point Adam,unless the air rifle pellet didnt cause much damage and bleeding.A bit like your scenario for Nevill being shot in the main bedroom.Who knows Adam,who knows.

[Adam]

Yes thats a good point Adam,unless the air rifle pellet didnt cause much damage and bleeding.A bit like your scenario for Nevill being shot in the main bedroom.Who knows Adam,who knows.

If you follow the evidence, then you will know what happened.