Time scale of massacre:

[Adam]

One of Trudies vlogs had her go to one of the cycle routes.

The footpath was so accessible to walk/cycle on, it even had a bench on!

[Steve_uk]

One of Trudies vlogs had her go to one of the cycle routes.

The footpath was so accessible to walk/cycle on, it even had a bench on!

Trudy's absence or removal speaks volumes. She's realized he's guilty and like Julie was strung along.

[guest29835]

..yes and they are damning to Jeremy Bamber.

I disagree, having looked at them in detail.  In order for the prosecution case to work, Jeremy must have gone to and from the scene using a quick method, such as a bicycle or car.  We can rule out a car.  The bicycle method is just about possible but fraught with risk and danger that diminishes its plausibility.

By the way, given your posts on this particular topic, can we assume you are therefore discounting Caroline's theory fully?  We already have the evidence of Len Foakes, which blows Caroline's theory out of the water and leaves us only with the sinking hulk: the suggestion that Jeremy committed the murders much earlier than believed.  I assume you accept it can't be the case that Jeremy was cycling out to the farmhouse at 10 or thereabouts in the evening?

[Adam]

I disagree, having looked at them in detail.  In order for the prosecution case to work, Jeremy must have gone to and from the scene using a quick method, such as a bicycle or car.  We can rule out a car.  The bicycle method is just about possible but fraught with risk and danger that diminishes its plausibility.

By the way, given your posts on this particular topic, can we assume you are therefore discounting Caroline's theory fully?  We already have the evidence of Len Foakes, which blows Caroline's theory out of the water and leaves us only with the sinking hulk: the suggestion that Jeremy committed the murders much earlier than believed.  I assume you accept it can't be the case that Jeremy was cycling out to the farmhouse at 10 or thereabouts in the evening?

What risk & danger?

Anyway, it was a risk he was willing to take.

[Steve_uk]

I disagree, having looked at them in detail.  In order for the prosecution case to work, Jeremy must have gone to and from the scene using a quick method, such as a bicycle or car.  We can rule out a car.  The bicycle method is just about possible but fraught with risk and danger that diminishes its plausibility.

By the way, given your posts on this particular topic, can we assume you are therefore discounting Caroline's theory fully?  We already have the evidence of Len Foakes, which blows Caroline's theory out of the water and leaves us only with the sinking hulk: the suggestion that Jeremy committed the murders much earlier than believed.  I assume you accept it can't be the case that Jeremy was cycling out to the farmhouse at 10 or thereabouts in the evening?

I don't recall Caroline ever mentioning the bicycle. But don't let truth get in the way of your theoretical posts.

[Adam]

Bamber had to spend 15 minutes cycling to/from WHF.

Along cycle/foot paths in an area he lived/worked in most of his life.

Who will see him at 2am, Worzel Gummidge?

[guest29835]

I don't recall Caroline ever mentioning the bicycle. But don't let truth get in the way of your theoretical posts.

No, because she was wrong! She has him taking the last trailer back, because she wasn't aware of Len Foakes' evidence.  That leaves us with only a residual aspect of Caroline's theory, which is the suggestion he committed the murders earlier than believed.  The point is that if he walked or drove or cycled, the problem is the same if he sets out early: he is highly-likely to be seen by someone and he arrives at a house where people may still be awake and up and about. You replied to this previously by suggesting he may have arranged to stay the night, but I gave detailed circumstantial reasons why this was unlikely.  Nevertheless, if that is what you think, then it is incumbent on you to explain how he got there 'early' if your position is to stand up.

[killingeve]

I disagree, having looked at them in detail.  In order for the prosecution case to work, Jeremy must have gone to and from the scene using a quick method, such as a bicycle or car.  We can rule out a car.  The bicycle method is just about possible but fraught with risk and danger that diminishes its plausibility.

By the way, given your posts on this particular topic, can we assume you are therefore discounting Caroline's theory fully?  We already have the evidence of Len Foakes, which blows Caroline's theory out of the water and leaves us only with the sinking hulk: the suggestion that Jeremy committed the murders much earlier than believed.  I assume you accept it can't be the case that Jeremy was cycling out to the farmhouse at 10 or thereabouts in the evening?

On what basis can this be ruled out?

Bamber's witness statement is quite clear about what tasks his father needed to complete before the end of the working day and how long these would take. 

The expert evidence:

38. At 8.10 a.m., Dr Craig attended the scene to formally certify the deaths. In cross-examination at the trial he said the deaths could have occurred at any time during the previous night.The appearance of Sheila Caffell's body suggested to him that the wounds had been inflicted by her own hand. In answer to the judge the witness made it clear this was not an opinion the jury should rely upon as a true indication that the injuries had been self-inflicted.

[guest29835]

On what basis can this be ruled out?

Bamber's witness statement is quite clear about what tasks his father needed to complete before the end of the working day and how long these would take. 

The expert evidence:

38. At 8.10 a.m., Dr Craig attended the scene to formally certify the deaths. In cross-examination at the trial he said the deaths could have occurred at any time during the previous night.The appearance of Sheila Caffell's body suggested to him that the wounds had been inflicted by her own hand. In answer to the judge the witness made it clear this was not an opinion the jury should rely upon as a true indication that the injuries had been self-inflicted.

With respect, I think you need to read the other thread.

[lookout]

Bamber had to spend 15 minutes cycling to/from WHF.

Along cycle/foot paths in an area he lived/worked in most of his life.

Who will see him at 2am, Worzel Gummidge?

Could you cycle the distance after completing 17hrs field work, harvesting ?

[Rob_]

Can you explain why he rings Julie then waits 15 minutes or so before ringing Police:

3.15:

Ring Julie.


3.26/36:

Ring Chelmsford Police.


There is no need to delay in this scenario? and can you explain why he does not simply dial 999? why does he make himself look suspicious?

[Steve_uk]

No, because she was wrong! She has him taking the last trailer back, because she wasn't aware of Len Foakes' evidence.  That leaves us with only a residual aspect of Caroline's theory, which is the suggestion he committed the murders earlier than believed.  The point is that if he walked or drove or cycled, the problem is the same if he sets out early: he is highly-likely to be seen by someone and he arrives at a house where people may still be awake and up and about. You replied to this previously by suggesting he may have arranged to stay the night, but I gave detailed circumstantial reasons why this was unlikely.  Nevertheless, if that is what you think, then it is incumbent on you to explain how he got there 'early' if your position is to stand up.

Was it you yourself who suggested he hid somewhere for several hours, possibly in the White House Farm grounds, the rifle by his side? It's certainly a possibility. Or he tells Nevill there's some urgent business at home but he will be coming back to sleep at the Farm due to an early start the next day.

[Steve_uk]

Can you explain why he rings Julie then waits 15 minutes or so before ringing Police:

3.15:

Ring Julie.


3.26/36:

Ring Chelmsford Police.


There is no need to delay in this scenario? and can you explain why he does not simply dial 999? why does he make himself look suspicious?

He doesn't want any forensic trail left, such as the taping of the telephone conversation between himself and police. Remember he insisted on the cremation of his parents, which would have been expressly against his mother's wishes.

[Adam]

Could you cycle the distance after completing 17hrs field work, harvesting ?

Yes.

[lookout]

Yes.

After massacring 5 people ?