Julie, Colin And Thoughts On Death

[JackieD]

I still wonder why JBs letters are heavily redacted in the 2nd edition of his book.

https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10164.msg475926.html#msg475926

Cannot wait to see Hollys reply.


By doing the above just shows Colin’s character. Just another person trying to make money out of the tragedy

Unforgivable

Own your behaviour Colin

[killingeve]

Cannot wait to see Hollys reply.


By doing the above just shows Colin’s character. Just another person trying to make money out of the tragedy

Unforgivable

Own your behaviour Colin

Thought Bamber attempted to sell images of his deceased sister to the tabloids for a fee pre arrest?  Thought he also intended to sell his story to the highest bidder in the event he was acquitted?

[killingeve]

The experts didn't need to comment did they ? Why would they if there was no other facial expression other than calmness ?

Did the experts comment on the facial expressions of the other four victims? 

I repeat there's no scientific basis to determine a person's facial expression and emotional state at the time of death.  If you think I'm wrong show me otherwise with supporting material, and with respect I am not interested in your opinions. 

[guest29835]

No one is above forum rules -

"Please ensure that references to the victims in any case discussed on the forum are made in a respectful manner.  Please remember that victims may include those living as well as those deceased".

I do agree that we should be respectful towards Colin Caffell, and I agree that some of the posts about him from other people on here have not been of a tone and content I would have liked.

But I am being respectful and I am complying with Forum Rules.  If you disagree, please report my post to the moderator, so that he can delete it for you and make you feel better.

Otherwise, let me say this again:

Please stop attacking other forum members for their views and posts.  It is my business what I choose to post, not yours, thank you.  By all means, criticise/critique what I say, but there's a distinction between attacking the man and attacking what he says. 

Again, I agree we should be respectful, but telling me that I am being insufficiently respectful is nonsensical given the considered nature of my remarks.  This is a forum that has been set up to discuss the case these people were involved in, a case in which both of them acted controversially at different points and have made lengthy public statements.

Meanwhile, for the benefit of those in the Real World, I am referring to both of them in a respectful manner.  Some of my post at the beginning of this thread actually contains points that underline Julie's case, other parts of my post question it, but at all times, I am respectful to both Julie and Colin.  Nevertheless, when somebody writes of robins in the way Colin did in his book, the inescapable conclusion is that he cannot mean what he is saying.  I notice there has been no mention of robins during Colin's TV and podcast interviews and his various media appearances that stretch back to the 1990s.
 
Separately to that point, those who actually bother to read the very same book by Colin will see he spends rather a lot of time criticising himself for various reasons, and if Colin were a member of this Forum, I rather suspect his manner would differ greatly from the tiresome, screeching, unhinged, pretentious, sanctimonious prating of one or two here who purport to defend him. 

Similarly, I think my scepticism of Julie Mugford's claim to believe in the Spirit World is not misplaced, though the point can neither be proven nor disproven since it's about what goes on inside her own head. 

[Jane]

Did the experts comment on the facial expressions of the other four victims? 

I repeat there's no scientific basis to determine a person's facial expression and emotional state at the time of death.  If you think I'm wrong show me otherwise with supporting material, and with respect I am not interested in your opinions.

The only other deceased person's face we're privy to, is June's. Given the extreme violence of her death and the terror she'd experienced in the lead up to it, one can hardly say that her expression in death, reflected her last experiences in life. Viewed side by side, I doubt we'd detect much difference, in facial expressions, between June and Sheila.

[killingeve]

I do agree that we should be respectful towards Colin Caffell, and I agree that some of the posts about him from other people on here have not been of a tone and content I would have liked.

But I am being respectful and I am complying with Forum Rules.  If you disagree, please report my post to the moderator, so that he can delete it for you and make you feel better.

Otherwise, let me say this again:

Please stop attacking other forum members for their views and posts.  It is my business what I choose to post, not yours, thank you.  By all means, criticise/critique what I say, but there's a distinction between attacking the man and attacking what he says. 

Again, I agree we should be respectful, but telling me that I am being insufficiently respectful is nonsensical given the considered nature of my remarks.  This is a forum that has been set up to discuss the case these people were involved in, a case in which both of them acted controversially at different points and have made lengthy public statements.

Meanwhile, for the benefit of those in the Real World, I am referring to both of them in a respectful manner.  Some of my post at the beginning of this thread actually contains points that underline Julie's case, other parts of my post question it, but at all times, I am respectful to both Julie and Colin.  Nevertheless, when somebody writes of robins in the way Colin did in his book, the inescapable conclusion is that he cannot mean what he is saying.  I notice there has been no mention of robins during Colin's TV and podcast interviews and his various media appearances that stretch back to the 1990s.
 
Separately to that point, those who actually bother to read the very same book by Colin will see he spends rather a lot of time criticising himself for various reasons, and if Colin were a member of this Forum, I rather suspect his manner would differ greatly from the tiresome, screeching, unhinged, pretentious, sanctimonious prating of one or two here who purport to defend him. 

Similarly, I think my scepticism of Julie Mugford's claim to believe in the Spirit World is not misplaced, though the point can neither be proven nor disproven since it's about what goes on inside her own head.

Colin's book was an autobiography of sorts and wasn't just about the tragedy at the farmhouse.  He held up his hands to playing away from home and accepting handouts from various individuals neither of which are against the law.  What has this got to do with whether or not Sheila's death was suicide or murder?

[killingeve]

The only other deceased person's face we're privy to, is June's. Given the extreme violence of her death and the terror she'd experienced in the lead up to it, one can hardly say that her expression in death, reflected her last experiences in life. Viewed side by side, I doubt we'd detect much difference, in facial expressions, between June and Sheila.

Of we wouldn't.  Also consider what happens to facial muscles post death:

https://www.verywellhealth.com/what-happens-to-my-body-right-after-i-die-1132498

At Hour 1
At the moment of death, all of the muscles in the body relax, a state called primary flaccidity.3 Eyelids lose their tension, the pupils dilate, the jaw might fall open, and the body's joints and limbs are flexible.

With the loss of tension in the muscles, the skin will sag, which can cause prominent joints and bones in the body, such as the jaw or hips, to become pronounced. As muscles relax, sphincters release and allow urine and feces to pass.

I am afraid there are a lot of people here so convinced of Bamber's innocence it clouds all rational judgement.

[David1819]

I am afraid there are a lot of people here so convinced of Bamber's innocence it clouds all rational judgement.

Like when that supporter came up with the idea of June walking around with two bullets in her brains?

[lookout]

Of we wouldn't.  Also consider what happens to facial muscles post death:

https://www.verywellhealth.com/what-happens-to-my-body-right-after-i-die-1132498

At Hour 1
At the moment of death, all of the muscles in the body relax, a state called primary flaccidity.3 Eyelids lose their tension, the pupils dilate, the jaw might fall open, and the body's joints and limbs are flexible.

With the loss of tension in the muscles, the skin will sag, which can cause prominent joints and bones in the body, such as the jaw or hips, to become pronounced. As muscles relax, sphincters release and allow urine and feces to pass.

I am afraid there are a lot of people here so convinced of Bamber's innocence it clouds all rational judgement.

I understand all that but these deaths weren't under normal circumstances were they ??

[guest29835]

Colin's book was an autobiography of sorts and wasn't just about the tragedy at the farmhouse.  He held up his hands to playing away from home and accepting handouts from various individuals neither of which are against the law.  What has this got to do with whether or not Sheila's death was suicide or murder?

You really need to stop this.  I do not have to justify myself to you.  I am not under your authority.  If you have something of substance to say about what I have said, go ahead, but if you are just here to discuss the manner in which we discuss things or our selection of topics to discuss, then you need to re-assess your approach to the Forum.

I will not ask you again.

Thank you.

[killingeve]

You really need to stop this.

Stop what?

I do not have to justify myself to you.

Did I say you do?

I am not under your authority.

Did I say you are?

If you have something of substance to say about what I have said, go ahead,
but if you are just here to discuss the manner in which we discuss things or our selection of topics to discuss, then you need to re-assess your approach to the Forum.

I asked how it was relevant in determining whether Sheila was murdered or took her own life?  Perfectly reasonable question.

I will not ask you again.

Good

Thank you.

No probs. 

[Roch]

if Colin were a member of this Forum, I rather suspect his manner would differ greatly from the tiresome, screeching, unhinged, pretentious, sanctimonious prating of one or two here who purport to defend him. 

I agree you're probably right here. I find it almost nauseating when there is sanctimonious preaching.

[Jane]

I agree you're probably right here. I find it almost nauseating when there is sanctimonious preaching.

Perhaps you prefer to read character assassinations?

[killingeve]

I agree you're probably right here. I find it almost nauseating when there is sanctimonious preaching.

Although I don't condone it I can understand 'supporters' taking issue with the relatives and Julie but I really struggle to understand Sheila and Colin? 

[killingeve]

Perhaps you prefer to read character assassinations?

Unless of course it involves their poster boy!