Author Topic: Sequence of events surrounding the silencer.  (Read 30740 times)

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Offline killingeve

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Re: Sequence of events surrounding the silencer.
« Reply #165 on: December 01, 2021, 05:38:PM »
FYI:

All of Adam's points have been answered and replied to at least several times.  This topic has been gone over before, in detail, and I have replied previously to the specific points Adam raises now on this thread.

The problem is that Adam does not develop his views in response to the points and arguments people put to him.  He just parrots the same points over and over and over again for months and years on end.  In the end, most posters give up and either ignore him or leave the Forum altogether.

Can you link me to the relevant threads?  Thanks.

Offline Roch

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Re: Sequence of events surrounding the silencer.
« Reply #166 on: December 01, 2021, 05:42:PM »
Can you link me to the relevant threads?  Thanks.

Would it not make more sense to stop treating Adam as a genuine poster? Well, it would make more sense if you were one yourself.

Offline Adam

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Re: Sequence of events surrounding the silencer.
« Reply #167 on: December 01, 2021, 05:42:PM »
They have.

And there is no rule that people who create threads have to answer questions, still less accept questions from you.

They haven't.

It is forum practice to respond to questions if you create a thread.
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Offline Adam

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Re: Sequence of events surrounding the silencer.
« Reply #168 on: December 01, 2021, 05:45:PM »
Can you link me to the relevant threads?  Thanks.

I have asked 37 questions in David's AE time sequence.

Look forward to QC's 30+ links.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2021, 06:00:PM by Adam »
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Offline Adam

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Re: Sequence of events surrounding the silencer.
« Reply #169 on: December 01, 2021, 05:50:PM »
No evidence Mr Bamber received any contact shots. 

62. Mr Fletcher also gave evidence of the range at which the shots had been fired. The lower (and not immediately fatal) of the injuries suffered by Sheila Caffell was caused when the muzzle of the gun was within three inches of the throat. The upper injury was a contact shot.

63. Of the seven injuries suffered by June Bamber, five were shots from the gun held at least one foot away from the body. The bullet wound between the eyes was fired from less than one foot away, and could have been with the gun in contact with the skin, although he viewed that as unlikely. Mr Fletcher was unable to estimate the range of the shot which had caused the injury to the right side of Mrs Bamber's chest.

64. In respect of the eight shots into Nevill Bamber's body, the six to his head and face were fired when the rifle was within a few inches of the skin. The remaining injuries to the arm were caused when the gun was at least two feet from the body.

65. As regards the twins, four of the five injuries suffered by Daniel were caused when the gun was held within one foot of his head, the fifth was from over two feet away. The three wounds to Nicholas were contact or close proximity shots.


65. As regards the twins, four of the five injuries suffered by Daniel were caused when the gun was held within one foot of his head, the fifth was from over two feet away. The three wounds to Nicholas were contact or close proximity shots.

----------

Thanks. So David is putting all his cards on Nicholas's 3 shots. Which were either close or contact shots.

His evidence - pigs shot by another rifle!
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Adam

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Re: Sequence of events surrounding the silencer.
« Reply #170 on: December 01, 2021, 05:51:PM »
Would it not make more sense to stop treating Adam as a genuine poster? Well, it would make more sense if you were one yourself.

Feeling left out.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Adam

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Re: Sequence of events surrounding the silencer.
« Reply #171 on: December 01, 2021, 06:01:PM »
Exactly.  Makes a long list of bullshit nobody will bother answering. If they answer pretend it never was answered and paste the bullshit list again.

Answer them again. You created the thread.

It's not as if you were bombarded with other questions.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Adam

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Re: Sequence of events surrounding the silencer.
« Reply #172 on: December 01, 2021, 06:03:PM »
AE would need to know -

Is Bamber innocent.

Sheila's arm lenght.

The rifle lenght with silencer.

Could Sheila have shot herself with the silencer attached.

What back splatter is.

Who of the 5 deceased received contact shots.

What locations would contact shots need to be to produce back splatter.

Where were the contact shots on the 5 deceased.

Is there any other forensic evidence against Sheila.

Was there a silencer next to Sheila.

How to realistically put blood into a silencer.

Where was Sheila's blood to insert into a silencer.

Did the rifle barrell already have blood on/in.

Did the crime scene photos show an unscratched aga.

How to realistically scratch the aga.

Had the police already checked all silencers at WHF.

The chance of this one piece of framed evidence getting a conviction.

The punishment if caught doing this.

Confidence the other relatives that none would succumb to police pressure.

Sheila's blood group.

The blood group of each other.

----------

This had to be found out very quickly. Providing AE had the idea & decided to go ahead
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Adam

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Re: Sequence of events surrounding the silencer.
« Reply #173 on: December 01, 2021, 06:05:PM »
Poor David. Can't answer any of these points. Let alone my other 15 questions on this thread.

AE's time sequence. Don't make me laugh.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline killingeve

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Re: Sequence of events surrounding the silencer.
« Reply #174 on: December 01, 2021, 06:17:PM »
This is one of the central problems of the theory that the silencer was planted by the family.  It has been discussed before, and when I can, I may pull out my own posts on the issue.  Here I will summarise a possible response that the pro-Jeremy camp can make to this, and another central problem.

I am non-committal on the matter.  I think there is evidence that the blood distribution within the silencer is consistent with the blood having been planted, but that does not mean the evidence was planted.  Furthermore, I think if this evidence was planted, it should still be possible to prove it at some level, but at the moment, I regard the position as uncertain.

I am not sure that I would accept the idea of Anne Eaton as a conspirator.  If there was a conspiracy, I would assume it would involve Robert Boutflour, Jnr. and David Boutflour only - father and son, sworn to secrecy.  But I am not saying they did this, or anything.  I don't know!  I don't want myself or this Forum to be sued for libel.

The argument from guilters is that the family could not have planted the silencer because:

(i). they were not cognisant of the drawback phenomenon; and,
(ii). they would not have appreciated the evidential significance of the silencer itself;
(iii). they did not have access to Sheila's blood.

Let me add another strong pro-guilt point that I thought of when I was going over this in my head:

(iv). How does the family know what the police have or have not checked, seen and observed when looking in the gun cupboard and examining the various firearms and paraphernalia?  For all the family know, police officers may well have already examined the silencer in situ and decided it should bear no significance to the investigation.  The police may also have indexed and recorded their findings.

Even if you are pro-innocent and want to dismiss these points, let's agree on something: if the silencer was planted, whoever was responsible was taking a calculated risk.  But as David observes, criminals do take risks.

Now, here is a possible response that the pro-Jeremy camp could make to all this:

In regard to (i), the family were not experts in forensic ballistics, but they didn't need to be.  They were gun users and would have enough knowledge and intuitive understanding to appreciate the significance of the silencer.  They would also intuitively understand that any sort of blood found in the silencer - especially human blood of any type - would throw the investigation a wobbly and potentially cast suspicion on Jeremy.  Remember that the aim may have been not to incriminate Jeremy at all, but merely to cause issues and trouble for him, cast general doubt over his innocence (if not legal doubt, then at least a shade of factual doubt), and damage his credibility during a period when he was vulnerable.  That kind of evidence may also be useful in civil proceedings against Jeremy over the Bamber-Speakman estates, in the event that Jeremy is not charged, or he is acquitted following a criminal trial.   

Turning to (ii), there are two threads to the objection.  First, how did they know that the rifle could not have been used by Sheila to kill herself with the silencer attached to it?  Second, how did they know to put Sheila's blood in the silencer instead of, say, Nevill's or June's?  The reply to the first point is that they did not even need to think about it.  Their issue was that the silencer was missing and they then found it.  It was Stan Jones who came up with the idea that the rifle with a silencer attached was too long for Sheila.  The reply to the second point is that they didn't need to be concerned with whose blood it was, because:

- any sort of blood found in the silencer would cast suspicion on Jeremy;
- human blood of any type found in the silencer would probably lead to Jeremy being charged, but not necessarily convicted;
- human blood of the right type found in the silencer could be enough for a jury to convict him, but it depends on the other evidence, as it's mainly a circumstantial case.

Turning to (iii), the problem with this objection is that it assumes the identification of the blood matters.  You forget that, given science and technology of the time, the forensic case against Jeremy was probabilistic because the trial could not pinpoint that it was Sheila's blood.  Instead, what the prosecution were saying to the jury is:

(a). the blood is human blood;
(b). the human blood is of a type that is the same as Sheila's;
(c). the rifle was legally Nevill's, but in fact it was Jeremy's gun (there is no suggestion Jeremy was using the gun illegally during the normal course of things, as he could assert a statutory dispensation);
(d). Jeremy admits that he was the last person to handle the gun prior to the incident;
(e). Jeremy admits that he was aware of the incident involving Sheila via a phone call from Nevill, the veracity for which the court is entirely reliant on Jeremy himself;
(f). given facts (a), (b), (c), (d), (e) and (f), the legal onus shifts to Jeremy to explain why there is blood in the silencer, and you, as the jury, must consider any explanation he offer, or no explanation, against all the surrounding facts and circumstances, including the evidence of Julie Mugford;
(g). Jeremy's explanation is that Sheila is the killer and she must have replaced the silencer in the gun cupboard before shooting herself;
(h). in all the circumstances, and weighing up the probabilities, Jeremy's explanation seems improbable;
(i). the criminal burden of proof is that you must be sure, but the improbability of Jeremy's explanation is such that his innocence is at the very margins of plausibility, hence the Crown submits that the jury can be sure of Jeremy's guilt.

You may agree with all this, but the key point is that the prosecution could not be sure it was Sheila's blood on the basis of a specific test for that purpose.  It is possible that in fact it was someone else's blood, of the same type or even a different type.  I think it follows that the family must have been aware of two things:

- blood could not be identified, it could only be typed;
- even human blood of an entirely different type would circumstantially throw doubt on Jeremy's innocent act.

There are two possibilities:

Possibility A: the conspirators may have just put any old blood in the silencer, on the basis that any human blood causes problems for Jeremy but could not be identified as blood of the family.  The coincidence of blood types benefited the prosecution case without casting suspicion on the family, but this was not planned.

Possibility B: the conspirators knew Sheila's blood type from family information and knew Ribetr Boutflour Jnr.'s blood type and also knew from general knowledge that blood could not be identified, it could only be typed, so they planted the 'right' blood in the silencer, anticipating that Jeremy could then be charged with the murders.

One further point to consider is that the family were blood tested by the police prior to the trial.  Nobody seems to have suggested that because Robert Boutflour, Jnr.'s blood type matched Sheila's, and therefore matched the weapon, that this means there was an attempt to frame Jeremy.

As for (iv), the family may have been told by the police in casual conversation that nothing had been found.  Or they may have just taken the chance, in the belief that if caught out, they could allege that the police had missed that particular silencer.  The family had firearms silencers of their own that resembled that one and could easily have added one of these to make it look like there were multiple silencers.  Indeed, this may well be what actually happened, given that we know the FSS examined at least two different silencers.

Please understand that I am not saying any of this is the case.  I only offer you possible replies to the objections raised. 

I have my own private suspicions about it all, but it is for you to decide what you think.

Go for it!

There's a world of difference between forensic ballistics (crime) and those who use firearms for country pursuits and to manage vermin/pests. 

If you own guns/silencers its important to clean them regularly.  All such articles/cleaning products refer to a build up of gunshot residue and the like nothing about blood.  The only occasion you would get up close to an animal or bird would be to put one out of its misery if it was wounded but you wouldn't risk getting too close in case the bullet hits the ground, or some other object, and ricochets back!

I wouldn't mind betting the relatives had never seen or heard of blood in a barrel or silencer in the course of their country pursuits/farm work.

There is no way the relatives would have had any understanding of 'drawback/blowback'.

Offline Adam

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Re: Sequence of events surrounding the silencer.
« Reply #175 on: December 01, 2021, 06:22:PM »
One of the strangest threads I have seen.

David creates the thread. I ask questions in the first two pages. These questions become holes if not addressed adequately.

David does not answer any of the questions. 

I chase David up in page 3. He puts his foot down & says is not going to answer questions. On his own thread!

I have realised that David has no faith in the justice system. Saying the COA evidence is 'bullshit'.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

guest29835

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Re: Sequence of events surrounding the silencer.
« Reply #176 on: December 01, 2021, 06:24:PM »
One of the strangest threads I have seen.

David creates the thread. I ask questions in the first two pages. These questions become holes if not addressed adequately.

David does not answer any of the questions. 

I chase David up in page 3. He puts his foot down & says is not going to answer questions. On his own thread!

I have realised that David has no faith in the justice system. Saying the COA evidence is 'bullshit'.

It's a good job you're here, Adam, insisting on standards.

Plus we now have Cambridgecutie to take care of the disciplinary side of things, freeing you up to provide moral support to more members via the PM system.

I think David should enrol on your moral support programme.  I'm only surprised he hasn't already.

Offline killingeve

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Re: Sequence of events surrounding the silencer.
« Reply #177 on: December 01, 2021, 06:26:PM »
Would it not make more sense to stop treating Adam as a genuine poster? Well, it would make more sense if you were one yourself.

Would it not make more sense for you to either take a break, as you said you were going to do, or just ignore/respond to posts as you see fit instead of all this nonsense you keep coming out with?

Offline Adam

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Re: Sequence of events surrounding the silencer.
« Reply #178 on: December 01, 2021, 06:27:PM »
This is one of the central problems of the theory that the silencer was planted by the family.  It has been discussed before, and when I can, I may pull out my own posts on the issue.  Here I will summarise a possible response that the pro-Jeremy camp can make to this, and another central problem.

I am non-committal on the matter.  I think there is evidence that the blood distribution within the silencer is consistent with the blood having been planted, but that does not mean the evidence was planted.  Furthermore, I think if this evidence was planted, it should still be possible to prove it at some level, but at the moment, I regard the position as uncertain.

I am not sure that I would accept the idea of Anne Eaton as a conspirator.  If there was a conspiracy, I would assume it would involve Robert Boutflour, Jnr. and David Boutflour only - father and son, sworn to secrecy.  But I am not saying they did this, or anything.  I don't know!  I don't want myself or this Forum to be sued for libel.

The argument from guilters is that the family could not have planted the silencer because:

(i). they were not cognisant of the drawback phenomenon; and,
(ii). they would not have appreciated the evidential significance of the silencer itself;
(iii). they did not have access to Sheila's blood.

Let me add another strong pro-guilt point that I thought of when I was going over this in my head:

(iv). How does the family know what the police have or have not checked, seen and observed when looking in the gun cupboard and examining the various firearms and paraphernalia?  For all the family know, police officers may well have already examined the silencer in situ and decided it should bear no significance to the investigation.  The police may also have indexed and recorded their findings.

Even if you are pro-innocent and want to dismiss these points, let's agree on something: if the silencer was planted, whoever was responsible was taking a calculated risk.  But as David observes, criminals do take risks.

Now, here is a possible response that the pro-Jeremy camp could make to all this:

In regard to (i), the family were not experts in forensic ballistics, but they didn't need to be.  They were gun users and would have enough knowledge and intuitive understanding to appreciate the significance of the silencer.  They would also intuitively understand that any sort of blood found in the silencer - especially human blood of any type - would throw the investigation a wobbly and potentially cast suspicion on Jeremy.  Remember that the aim may have been not to incriminate Jeremy at all, but merely to cause issues and trouble for him, cast general doubt over his innocence (if not legal doubt, then at least a shade of factual doubt), and damage his credibility during a period when he was vulnerable.  That kind of evidence may also be useful in civil proceedings against Jeremy over the Bamber-Speakman estates, in the event that Jeremy is not charged, or he is acquitted following a criminal trial.   

Turning to (ii), there are two threads to the objection.  First, how did they know that the rifle could not have been used by Sheila to kill herself with the silencer attached to it?  Second, how did they know to put Sheila's blood in the silencer instead of, say, Nevill's or June's?  The reply to the first point is that they did not even need to think about it.  Their issue was that the silencer was missing and they then found it.  It was Stan Jones who came up with the idea that the rifle with a silencer attached was too long for Sheila.  The reply to the second point is that they didn't need to be concerned with whose blood it was, because:

- any sort of blood found in the silencer would cast suspicion on Jeremy;
- human blood of any type found in the silencer would probably lead to Jeremy being charged, but not necessarily convicted;
- human blood of the right type found in the silencer could be enough for a jury to convict him, but it depends on the other evidence, as it's mainly a circumstantial case.

Turning to (iii), the problem with this objection is that it assumes the identification of the blood matters.  You forget that, given science and technology of the time, the forensic case against Jeremy was probabilistic because the trial could not pinpoint that it was Sheila's blood.  Instead, what the prosecution were saying to the jury is:

(a). the blood is human blood;
(b). the human blood is of a type that is the same as Sheila's;
(c). the rifle was legally Nevill's, but in fact it was Jeremy's gun (there is no suggestion Jeremy was using the gun illegally during the normal course of things, as he could assert a statutory dispensation);
(d). Jeremy admits that he was the last person to handle the gun prior to the incident;
(e). Jeremy admits that he was aware of the incident involving Sheila via a phone call from Nevill, the veracity for which the court is entirely reliant on Jeremy himself;
(f). given facts (a), (b), (c), (d), (e) and (f), the legal onus shifts to Jeremy to explain why there is blood in the silencer, and you, as the jury, must consider any explanation he offer, or no explanation, against all the surrounding facts and circumstances, including the evidence of Julie Mugford;
(g). Jeremy's explanation is that Sheila is the killer and she must have replaced the silencer in the gun cupboard before shooting herself;
(h). in all the circumstances, and weighing up the probabilities, Jeremy's explanation seems improbable;
(i). the criminal burden of proof is that you must be sure, but the improbability of Jeremy's explanation is such that his innocence is at the very margins of plausibility, hence the Crown submits that the jury can be sure of Jeremy's guilt.

You may agree with all this, but the key point is that the prosecution could not be sure it was Sheila's blood on the basis of a specific test for that purpose.  It is possible that in fact it was someone else's blood, of the same type or even a different type.  I think it follows that the family must have been aware of two things:

- blood could not be identified, it could only be typed;
- even human blood of an entirely different type would circumstantially throw doubt on Jeremy's innocent act.

There are two possibilities:

Possibility A: the conspirators may have just put any old blood in the silencer, on the basis that any human blood causes problems for Jeremy but could not be identified as blood of the family.  The coincidence of blood types benefited the prosecution case without casting suspicion on the family, but this was not planned.

Possibility B: the conspirators knew Sheila's blood type from family information and knew Ribetr Boutflour Jnr.'s blood type and also knew from general knowledge that blood could not be identified, it could only be typed, so they planted the 'right' blood in the silencer, anticipating that Jeremy could then be charged with the murders.

One further point to consider is that the family were blood tested by the police prior to the trial.  Nobody seems to have suggested that because Robert Boutflour, Jnr.'s blood type matched Sheila's, and therefore matched the weapon, that this means there was an attempt to frame Jeremy.

As for (iv), the family may have been told by the police in casual conversation that nothing had been found.  Or they may have just taken the chance, in the belief that if caught out, they could allege that the police had missed that particular silencer.  The family had firearms silencers of their own that resembled that one and could easily have added one of these to make it look like there were multiple silencers.  Indeed, this may well be what actually happened, given that we know the FSS examined at least two different silencers.

Please understand that I am not saying any of this is the case.  I only offer you possible replies to the objections raised. 

I have my own private suspicions about it all, but it is for you to decide what you think.

What evidence. Expand. Preferably with sources.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Adam

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Re: Sequence of events surrounding the silencer.
« Reply #179 on: December 01, 2021, 06:35:PM »
This is one of the central problems of the theory that the silencer was planted by the family.  It has been discussed before, and when I can, I may pull out my own posts on the issue.  Here I will summarise a possible response that the pro-Jeremy camp can make to this, and another central problem.

I am non-committal on the matter.  I think there is evidence that the blood distribution within the silencer is consistent with the blood having been planted, but that does not mean the evidence was planted.  Furthermore, I think if this evidence was planted, it should still be possible to prove it at some level, but at the moment, I regard the position as uncertain.

I am not sure that I would accept the idea of Anne Eaton as a conspirator.  If there was a conspiracy, I would assume it would involve Robert Boutflour, Jnr. and David Boutflour only - father and son, sworn to secrecy.  But I am not saying they did this, or anything.  I don't know!  I don't want myself or this Forum to be sued for libel.

The argument from guilters is that the family could not have planted the silencer because:

(i). they were not cognisant of the drawback phenomenon; and,
(ii). they would not have appreciated the evidential significance of the silencer itself;
(iii). they did not have access to Sheila's blood.

Let me add another strong pro-guilt point that I thought of when I was going over this in my head:

(iv). How does the family know what the police have or have not checked, seen and observed when looking in the gun cupboard and examining the various firearms and paraphernalia?  For all the family know, police officers may well have already examined the silencer in situ and decided it should bear no significance to the investigation.  The police may also have indexed and recorded their findings.

Even if you are pro-innocent and want to dismiss these points, let's agree on something: if the silencer was planted, whoever was responsible was taking a calculated risk.  But as David observes, criminals do take risks.

Now, here is a possible response that the pro-Jeremy camp could make to all this:

In regard to (i), the family were not experts in forensic ballistics, but they didn't need to be.  They were gun users and would have enough knowledge and intuitive understanding to appreciate the significance of the silencer.  They would also intuitively understand that any sort of blood found in the silencer - especially human blood of any type - would throw the investigation a wobbly and potentially cast suspicion on Jeremy.  Remember that the aim may have been not to incriminate Jeremy at all, but merely to cause issues and trouble for him, cast general doubt over his innocence (if not legal doubt, then at least a shade of factual doubt), and damage his credibility during a period when he was vulnerable.  That kind of evidence may also be useful in civil proceedings against Jeremy over the Bamber-Speakman estates, in the event that Jeremy is not charged, or he is acquitted following a criminal trial.   

Turning to (ii), there are two threads to the objection.  First, how did they know that the rifle could not have been used by Sheila to kill herself with the silencer attached to it?  Second, how did they know to put Sheila's blood in the silencer instead of, say, Nevill's or June's?  The reply to the first point is that they did not even need to think about it.  Their issue was that the silencer was missing and they then found it.  It was Stan Jones who came up with the idea that the rifle with a silencer attached was too long for Sheila.  The reply to the second point is that they didn't need to be concerned with whose blood it was, because:

- any sort of blood found in the silencer would cast suspicion on Jeremy;
- human blood of any type found in the silencer would probably lead to Jeremy being charged, but not necessarily convicted;
- human blood of the right type found in the silencer could be enough for a jury to convict him, but it depends on the other evidence, as it's mainly a circumstantial case.

Turning to (iii), the problem with this objection is that it assumes the identification of the blood matters.  You forget that, given science and technology of the time, the forensic case against Jeremy was probabilistic because the trial could not pinpoint that it was Sheila's blood.  Instead, what the prosecution were saying to the jury is:

(a). the blood is human blood;
(b). the human blood is of a type that is the same as Sheila's;
(c). the rifle was legally Nevill's, but in fact it was Jeremy's gun (there is no suggestion Jeremy was using the gun illegally during the normal course of things, as he could assert a statutory dispensation);
(d). Jeremy admits that he was the last person to handle the gun prior to the incident;
(e). Jeremy admits that he was aware of the incident involving Sheila via a phone call from Nevill, the veracity for which the court is entirely reliant on Jeremy himself;
(f). given facts (a), (b), (c), (d), (e) and (f), the legal onus shifts to Jeremy to explain why there is blood in the silencer, and you, as the jury, must consider any explanation he offer, or no explanation, against all the surrounding facts and circumstances, including the evidence of Julie Mugford;
(g). Jeremy's explanation is that Sheila is the killer and she must have replaced the silencer in the gun cupboard before shooting herself;
(h). in all the circumstances, and weighing up the probabilities, Jeremy's explanation seems improbable;
(i). the criminal burden of proof is that you must be sure, but the improbability of Jeremy's explanation is such that his innocence is at the very margins of plausibility, hence the Crown submits that the jury can be sure of Jeremy's guilt.

You may agree with all this, but the key point is that the prosecution could not be sure it was Sheila's blood on the basis of a specific test for that purpose.  It is possible that in fact it was someone else's blood, of the same type or even a different type.  I think it follows that the family must have been aware of two things:

- blood could not be identified, it could only be typed;
- even human blood of an entirely different type would circumstantially throw doubt on Jeremy's innocent act.

There are two possibilities:

Possibility A: the conspirators may have just put any old blood in the silencer, on the basis that any human blood causes problems for Jeremy but could not be identified as blood of the family.  The coincidence of blood types benefited the prosecution case without casting suspicion on the family, but this was not planned.

Possibility B: the conspirators knew Sheila's blood type from family information and knew Ribetr Boutflour Jnr.'s blood type and also knew from general knowledge that blood could not be identified, it could only be typed, so they planted the 'right' blood in the silencer, anticipating that Jeremy could then be charged with the murders.

One further point to consider is that the family were blood tested by the police prior to the trial.  Nobody seems to have suggested that because Robert Boutflour, Jnr.'s blood type matched Sheila's, and therefore matched the weapon, that this means there was an attempt to frame Jeremy.

As for (iv), the family may have been told by the police in casual conversation that nothing had been found.  Or they may have just taken the chance, in the belief that if caught out, they could allege that the police had missed that particular silencer.  The family had firearms silencers of their own that resembled that one and could easily have added one of these to make it look like there were multiple silencers.  Indeed, this may well be what actually happened, given that we know the FSS examined at least two different silencers.

Please understand that I am not saying any of this is the case.  I only offer you possible replies to the objections raised. 

I have my own private suspicions about it all, but it is for you to decide what you think.

I've always said that in my list. Last posted on page 12.

Over to you David, Lookout & JackieD.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.