Bamber's reaction to Nevill's 11 words.

[Jane]

I wonder why it should be imagined that just because JB had planned everything, he wouldn't need to compose himself in readiness for his 'scene' with the police. It was imperative for him to get it right, but it was something he could only have rehearsed in his head. He had no idea how it would go in reality. It doesn't matter, as individuals, how long we believe he needed to compose himself. Only he could answer that.

[guest7363]

I appreciate you may find the question difficult to answer.

Nope, no one tells me what to do, especially you.

[guest29835]

To create a siege situation. Lots of EP outside thinking -

Sheila is alive & a threat to everybody inside. If alive.

Sheila has killed everyone. She is alive or has killed herself.


The more delay, the more this thinking becomes entrenced. It worked on Taff Jones.

I don't see the specific link between the need for a delay and a siege situation, sorry.  It seems to me that guilters have cornered themselves into this idea that Jeremy was trying to delay everybody, but if Jeremy is the killer and he wanted to be outside the farmhouse with the police, it was enough for Jeremy to give them the desired backstory and then let the police make their own decisions. 

In the event, any delay on Jeremy's part was a matter of minutes.  He turns up and gives the police his story.  The police then draw their own conclusions.  From there, Jeremy couldn't know that the police would wait until dawn before raiding the house and he had no say or influence in the decision-making.

[guest29835]

Nope, no one tells me what to do, especially you.

Where have I told you what to do?

You're showing your true colours now, I think.  The mask slips quickly, doesn't it?  Cry babies indeed.

What is your interest in this case, please?

[Roch]

I don't see the specific link between the need for a delay and a siege situation, sorry.  It seems to me that guilters have cornered themselves into this idea that Jeremy was trying to delay everybody, but if Jeremy is the killer and he wanted to be outside the farmhouse with the police, it was enough for Jeremy to give them the desired backstory and then let the police make their own decisions. 

In the event, any delay on Jeremy's part was a matter of minutes.  He turns up and gives the police his story.  The police then draw their own conclusions.  From there, Jeremy couldn't know that the police would wait until dawn before raiding the house and he had no say or influence in the decision-making.

He was very eager for police to go in.

[guest29835]

He was very eager for police to go in.

The only aspect of this where Jeremy (if guilty) may have had a reason to delay is the drive there, as he might have wanted to make sure the police see him arrive.  However, wouldn't the police surely assume that Jeremy would not risk making a call from anywhere other than Bourtree Cottage? 

[Jane]

He was very eager for police to go in.

Except that he seemed to find reasons for them to hesitate at each attempt.

[guest29835]

Except that he seemed to find reasons for them to hesitate at each attempt.

Could you explain a bit more about this?

How many attempts were made and how did Jeremy foil each attempt?  Thanks.

[Adam]

I don't see the specific link between the need for a delay and a siege situation, sorry.  It seems to me that guilters have cornered themselves into this idea that Jeremy was trying to delay everybody, but if Jeremy is the killer and he wanted to be outside the farmhouse with the police, it was enough for Jeremy to give them the desired backstory and then let the police make their own decisions. 

In the event, any delay on Jeremy's part was a matter of minutes.  He turns up and gives the police his story.  The police then draw their own conclusions.  From there, Jeremy couldn't know that the police would wait until dawn before raiding the house and he had no say or influence in the decision-making.

The longer the delay. The more he can insinuate Sheila.

Bamber telling Bews what he did automatically resulted in armed back up. Whether Bamber wants it or not, this creates a long delay.

The police even started shouting through a loud speaker to (a dead) Sheila.

[lookout]

JB could have sped away from the farmhouse at the point where there was suspicion that someone was alive inside. Surely it would have been in his plan should that have happened ?

Police chases weren't then as they are now with heat-seeking helicopters and such.

This was no planned serial-killing. Leaving someone partially or not dead at all ? What sort of a dumbo does that ?

Why didn't EP allow JB into the farmhouse when he asked to see his father ? You'd do that wouldn't you ?
 

[Kestrel19]

Bamber's eventual reason for not dialling 999 -

He did not think it would make any difference in how quickly the police arrived.

----------

Looking up the number for the sixth furthest away police station sure isn't going to make things quicker.

We’ve mentioned this 6th furthest away police station before - you state it frequently as if he got out a map and looked at all the police stations before selecting the 6th furthest one then calling that.
However - Robert Boutflour in his diary entry for August 30th says that “local people know that Witham is closed from 2am to 6am” this is in response to it being suggested that Jeremy called Witham and didn’t get a response. If it’s correct that Jeremy did call Witham and didn’t get a response then he didn’t call the 6th furthest away Police station first.
If he didn’t call Witham because as a local he knew they would be closed then he only called the 6th furthest away police station if you also count the closed ones or ones he believed would be closed (making it pointless calling them!)
If Witham was closed at this time it’s a fairly safe assumption Tiptree would be too being a small village, easy to prove at the time, very difficult now! But given that D’Arcy falls under Witham’s area at the time (West’s court testimony said he looked this up and Witham policed the area) it suggests the larger area one.
In the pre-internet days it’s also highly likely that he looked the number up in the phone book or Yellow pages. This would have all the police stations grouped together under the heading of Police and then the numbers for each in alphabetical order, if all the local stations the first two would be Braintree and Chelmsford. Technically Braintree is closer, however the drive is likely to at best take the same amount of time as Chelmsford it’s also likely to be closed at that time. So he in fact called the first police station likely to be open, close to him in alphabetical order in the phone book…

[guest7363]

We’ve mentioned this 6th furthest away police station before - you state it frequently as if he got out a map and looked at all the police stations before selecting the 6th furthest one then calling that.
However - Robert Boutflour in his diary entry for August 30th says that “local people know that Witham is closed from 2am to 6am” this is in response to it being suggested that Jeremy called Witham and didn’t get a response. If it’s correct that Jeremy did call Witham and didn’t get a response then he didn’t call the 6th furthest away Police station first.
If he didn’t call Witham because as a local he knew they would be closed then he only called the 6th furthest away police station if you also count the closed ones or ones he believed would be closed (making it pointless calling them!)
If Witham was closed at this time it’s a fairly safe assumption Tiptree would be too being a small village, easy to prove at the time, very difficult now! But given that D’Arcy falls under Witham’s area at the time (West’s court testimony said he looked this up and Witham policed the area) it suggests the larger area one.
In the pre-internet days it’s also highly likely that he looked the number up in the phone book or Yellow pages. This would have all the police stations grouped together under the heading of Police and then the numbers for each in alphabetical order, if all the local stations the first two would be Braintree and Chelmsford. Technically Braintree is closer, however the drive is likely to at best take the same amount of time as Chelmsford it’s also likely to be closed at that time. So he in fact called the first police station likely to be open, close to him in alphabetical order in the phone book…

I thought Witham was open, West contacted Witham so it was looks like it was open?  Still far better to call 999 in an emergency though rather than phone your girlfriend first and get her out of bed?

https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1103.0;attach=5593

https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6845.0;attach=41408

https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5816.0;attach=37735

[lookout]

My own personal take on the fact that JB drove slowly was that he must have felt scared at what the prospect might be. Because police hadn't, to my knowledge ever been involved in any incidents at WHF, he realised that there must be something more serious than trying to calm Sheila down.
I don't think I'd have been in any hurry at the thought of what I could be facing.

If JB had sped there it too would have appeared suspicious-----to show his eagerness ( putting it on ) if you see what I'm getting at. Either way, he couldn't win in that respect, though how he did drive wasn't relevant to the case along with all the other foibles that he was supposed to have had.

[Jane]

My own personal take on the fact that JB drove slowly was that he must have felt scared at what the prospect might be. Because police hadn't, to my knowledge ever been involved in any incidents at WHF, he realised that there must be something more serious than trying to calm Sheila down.
I don't think I'd have been in any hurry at the thought of what I could be facing.

If JB had sped there it too would have appeared suspicious-----to show his eagerness ( putting it on ) if you see what I'm getting at. Either way, he couldn't win in that respect, though how he did drive wasn't relevant to the case along with all the other foibles that he was supposed to have had.

Would not the alleged call from Nevill, at silly o'clock, have suggested such? Had not JB called the police, at one moment telling them his father "sounded terrified"? They were hardly going to send out the local bobby on his push bike to sort out the problem, were they. JB must have realized this. He wouldn't have asked for a lift on a push-bike. However, I absolutely believe you to be 100% correct in your suggestion that he was driving slowly to delay his arrival to give him time to compose himself and go over his story and how he was going to tell it. I imagine he may have been sweating with fear.

[lookout]

Would not the alleged call from Nevill, at silly o'clock, have suggested such? Had not JB called the police, at one moment telling them his father "sounded terrified"? They were hardly going to send out the local bobby on his push bike to sort out the problem, were they. JB must have realized this. He wouldn't have asked for a lift on a push-bike. However, I absolutely believe you to be 100% correct in your suggestion that he was driving slowly to delay his arrival to give him time to compose himself and go over his story and how he was going to tell it. I imagine he may have been sweating with fear.

In JB's world, nothing urgent ever happened so he wouldn't have been in any hurry. He'd seen it before with Sheila's " meltdowns " and in his mind thought his father would manage. It probably wasn't until Nevill's call sunk in that he then realised that for the first time his father was in trouble.
After all, it wasn't every day that such a call was made. By the time things had sunk in he tried ringing WHF back to see what was going on but the phone was engaged----which would have been his father quickly ring for the police.

Unfortunately JB hadn't known about the severity of Sheila's last diagnosis after her stay at the clinic in March of that year or he would have been more prepared for the worst. He would have driven with caution while his thoughts dulled his full concentration, as there'd be all kinds of things going through his mind.
My thoughts were that at 24 he wasn't your average mature adult " man of the world and streetwise " so things beyond his mainly sheltered and cosy background were alien in that he now had to deal with things in the real world. Only for his father's teachings he'd have crumbled as Nevill was a strong man in mind and body and would have taught JB how to deal with things in certain situations.