Bamber's reaction to Nevill's 11 words.

[Adam]

Please Come Over

Bamber could have got to WHF in less than 10 minutes.

Bamber's reaction:

He didn't come over. 

----------

Sheila's gone crazy & she's got the gun.

This highlights things are life threatening.

It suggests Nevill had -

Already called the police.

Was about to call the police.

Wanted to keep matters private. As stated by Bamber.

Bamber's reaction:

He did call the police despite no request & Nevill wanting to keep family issues private.   

He looked for the phone number of the sixth furthest away police station.

He called Julie.

He drove slowly to WHF.

----------

[Adam]

He could have gone straight over to WHF & knocked on the door. As requested by Nevill.

If Nevill answered then Nevill's request to 'please come over' has been done.

If there is no answer at WHF, then Bamber can ring the police from the nearest call box. He knew where it was as he called Julie that night.

[Adam]

Obviously the police would already be at WHF or arrive later. If Nevill had called them.

[Jane]

Obviously the police would already be at WHF or arrive later. If Nevill had called them.

I think we must be careful to not fall into a JB set trap. The only think we know for certain sure is that he called police around 3.20am. If there's a question about Nevill having called him within the previous 20minutes, there's an even greater one about him having called police within the same time-frame. It's more than likely he'd already been dead for several hours. so we're now working from a false time-frame.

[Roch]

I think we must be careful to not fall into a JB set trap. The only think we know for certain sure is that he called police around 3.20am. If there's a question about Nevill having called him within the previous 20minutes, there's an even greater one about him having called police within the same time-frame. It's more than likely he'd already been dead for several hours. so we're now working from a false time-frame.

Jane, It's a pity more attention isn't focussed on avoiding an 'authorities' set trap' when trying to understand the case..

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C16871430

[lookout]

This is what happens when medics don't do their jobs properly by not taking body temperatures. It's so vital more so when there has been a murder rather than being on a hospital ward when someone is there at the time of death----though it still has to be written down on the hospital report. I worry about this more than anything especially when you have family asking what time they died.

Imagine asking a staff member in hospital what time their relative died and the answer was " I don't know ", wouldn't you question their ability to be in the profession ?

The taking of temperatures at a crime scene can be the difference between guilt and innocence. Just by looking at a corpse isn't practical at all, unless it's been above 6 hours, then another 6 before really stiff. I didn't recognise that in Sheila especially and wouldn't have said she'd been dead for above 3 hours in her photographs. The paleness of her face and limbs would have told me that her death was only in the initial ( first stage ) 1--3 hours. Her parents, because they were older would have had a more quickening effect of RM, which is why it should have been imperative that temperatures were taken.

[killingeve]

This is what happens when medics don't do their jobs properly by not taking body temperatures. It's so vital more so when there has been a murder rather than being on a hospital ward when someone is there at the time of death----though it still has to be written down on the hospital report. I worry about this more than anything especially when you have family asking what time they died.

Imagine asking a staff member in hospital what time their relative died and the answer was " I don't know ", wouldn't you question their ability to be in the profession ?

The taking of temperatures at a crime scene can be the difference between guilt and innocence. Just by looking at a corpse isn't practical at all, unless it's been above 6 hours, then another 6 before really stiff. I didn't recognise that in Sheila especially and wouldn't have said she'd been dead for above 3 hours in her photographs. The paleness of her face and limbs would have told me that her death was only in the initial ( first stage ) 1--3 hours. Her parents, because they were older would have had a more quickening effect of RM, which is why it should have been imperative that temperatures were taken.

Who wasn't do their job properly in this case with regard to the taking of body temperature?

[lookout]

To say I'm incensed by this " small " detail of temperatures is an understatement !
You've only got to compare a pic of a person who's died beyond 3 hours to a person who's been dead for no longer than an hour. Sheila's appearance is called Pallor Mortis------Look it up !

[Adam]

Bamber did/didn't do the two things Nevill did/didn't want -

He 'didn't come over'.

He 'did' call the police.


Doing/not doing these things put him in position where he could spend several hours insinuating Sheila, not apposed.

[lookout]

Who wasn't do their job properly in this case with regard to the taking of body temperature?

Police doctor and pathologist.

[Roch]

How could Bamber know in advance, that temperatures would not be taken?

Likewise, how can Bamber know in advance, that he will not obtain any injuries or marks from other adults or furniture, during the course of such exertions?

Similarly, how can Bamber know in advance that a discussion about 'fostering' (which may have meant no more than assistance) would be a catalyst for a mother to kill herself and her children and parents? Which historic cases of mothers carrying out similar acts would have been prominent enough in the public eye in order to give Bamber the idea of 'precedence'.

No wonder successive campaign teams have stuck with the label 'a work of fiction' with regard to the prosecution version of events.

[lookout]

I wholeheartedly agree with you Roch. JB had fully relied upon the law to do their job-----and they let him down badly ! Unforgiveable !!

[killingeve]

Police doctor and pathologist.

Excerpts from the Dickinson report were uploaded the other day confirming it was not part of police surgeons' role at the time to take temps.

[Roch]

I wholeheartedly agree with you Roch. JB had fully relied upon the law to do their job-----and they let him down badly ! Unforgiveable !!

How would he know in advance that a medical professional would not take temperatures at the scene? How could he know in advance, that a medical professional would not establish times of death for victims, that did not fit with timeline set by his own claims?

How can he ensure that a struggle with Nevill or Sheila (a mother with fingernails, potentially fighting for her children's lives) or that furniture being bumped in to, would not cause him to have visible marks on his own person? 

If he can't guarantee that he will not be marked during the killing of five people, in a confined space with furniture, what is his plan B to explain the marks?

He turns up to meet the police with a black eye or scratches and claims 'oh yeah.. that's just a coincidence.. nothing to do with anything that happened here'.

It's laughable Lookout.

[Jane]

This is what happens when medics don't do their jobs properly by not taking body temperatures. It's so vital more so when there has been a murder rather than being on a hospital ward when someone is there at the time of death----though it still has to be written down on the hospital report. I worry about this more than anything especially when you have family asking what time they died.

Imagine asking a staff member in hospital what time their relative died and the answer was " I don't know ", wouldn't you question their ability to be in the profession ?

The taking of temperatures at a crime scene can be the difference between guilt and innocence. Just by looking at a corpse isn't practical at all, unless it's been above 6 hours, then another 6 before really stiff. I didn't recognise that in Sheila especially and wouldn't have said she'd been dead for above 3 hours in her photographs. The paleness of her face and limbs would have told me that her death was only in the initial ( first stage ) 1--3 hours. Her parents, because they were older would have had a more quickening effect of RM, which is why it should have been imperative that temperatures were taken.

Lookout, IS it the on scene doctor's job? I'd have thought his only job was to pronounce life extinct. Would not taking a rectal temperature have required moving of the body from its final resting position? I know that can vary, but it's probably a "one rule fits all" direction.