Nevill's call to Bamber. What was Sheila doing?

[guest29835]

Yes they go into overdrive and think what to say, this could account for his delay in phoning and why he never called 999, instead of it being a delaying tactic it could have been a damage limitation tactic for the fact he left the rifle out and loaded.  Having said that, if he hadn’t mentioned the fact he’d left the rifle out and loaded, would the Police have found this out in the end?

You make good points.  In the absence of an explanation from Jeremy, the police would have suspected him, I think, and would have been looking more carefully at things.

If Jeremy is innocent, then he is a very unfortunate man in multiple ways.  If he is guilty, his intervention with the phone call to the police could be seen as either necessary or foolish, or a bit of both.

Personally, for me, what makes the case interesting is that we just can't know the truth and I believe we will never know, regardless of the outcome of Jeremy's latest application to the CCRC and any appeal.  They may release an innocent man, or they may release a guilty man on the basis of legal doubt - he will always have a question mark hanging over him, even if successful in an appeal.

[guest29835]

I'm sorry I don't read every post of yours.

Please explain how Nevill ringing Bamber benefits Nevill.

It's not that.  I don't expect you to read every post of mine.  It's more that I don't want to get into repetitive conversations, going over the same basics that I have already covered.  You are free to go through my entire posting history and critique and criticise whatever you like.  That is your right.

[guest7363]

How would ringing Bamber stall her?

If Nevill wanted the rifle, he would just take it off her.

I agree, but there’s no one else offering different scenario’s, so we’re trying to cover what could have happened in your scenario but not necessarily agreeing with it being a forgone  conclusion, let’s try and pick our way through it.  It’s definitely a question that has to be answered let’s see if we can come up with a solution.

[Rob_]

Not quite.  If Jeremy is innocent, then my suspicion is that he couldn't remember what Nevill said other than that it was imperative he come over, and he then decided that he needed to tell the police what was said with some certainty, so he has made the wording up, perhaps believing that what he claims was said must approximate to what was actually said, given what subsequently happened.  Am I making sense here?

It was such an alarming call I think most people would remember what was said QC?

If he was guilty in my view he had only two plausible choices, either do nothing and wait till the morning or just dial 999 pretending Nevil had just called.

[guest29835]

I must admit I wouldn’t remember, I would have to question it several times for it to sink in, I’m saying this now though, I don’t know when I was in my early twenties though I think I would be a lot sharper, I’m a light sleeper right from an early age who is used to getting up about 4.30/5.00 am pit time as we call it anyway I’m always awake at this time.  It would also depend (you can sense trouble in a voice) on the tone and speed of the voice.

Yes, I think likewise, when I was younger I was much sharper and would be up at 4 or 4.30 for similar reasons.  I used to cycle 60 miles a day to and from a factory in York at one point, just to keep myself fit!  I can't quite believe that I did that.  I certainly couldn't do that now.  I'd collapse if I tried that today. 

Jeremy was a presumably fit young farmer.  He watched TV that night until late.  Etc., etc.

[guest7363]

You make good points.  In the absence of an explanation from Jeremy, the police would have suspected him, I think, and would have been looking more carefully at things.

If Jeremy is innocent, then he is a very unfortunate man in multiple ways.  If he is guilty, his intervention with the phone call to the police could be seen as either necessary or foolish, or a bit of both.

Personally, for me, what makes the case interesting is that we just can't know the truth and I believe we will never know, regardless of the outcome of Jeremy's latest application to the CCRC and any appeal.  They may release an innocent man, or they may release a guilty man on the basis of legal doubt - he will always have a question mark hanging over him, even if successful in an appeal.

Excellent posts and well put.  👍

[Rob_]

How would ringing Bamber stall her?

If Nevill wanted the rifle, he would just take it off her.

I once saw someone do this Adam, a heated argument was going on almost coming to blows and one of the two people went to the phone saying they were calling the police. It worked!

[Adam]

I agree, but there’s no one else offering different scenario’s, so we’re trying to cover what could have happened in your scenario but not necessarily agreeing with it being a forgone  conclusion, let’s try and pick our way through it.  It’s definitely a question that has to be answered let’s see if we can come up with a solution.

Nevill was the head of the family, a husband, father & grandfather to the people in the house.

Obviously there was no reason why he would ring Bamber. At 3am.

If Sheila was with Nevill & calm enough to let Nevill make a phone call lasting minutes, Nevill would simply take the rifle back.

[Kestrel19]

There could be a couple of possibilities in the call, we don’t know the tone of Nevill’s voice, maybe there had been an argument in the kitchen with him and Sheila without the gun, he calls Jeremy to give a hand as she’s being particularly aggressive (could the scratch marks come from here?) he doesn’t want to get June involved as he doesn’t want to risk her being hurt with Sheila in that mood so calls Jeremy whilst there is a stand off. The call is intended to be “can you please come and give me a hand? Your sisters being difficult” And the call starts in that vain, however whilst he’s talking Sheila grabs the gun for the first time and runs off - so his “she’s got a gun” is actually a separate thought/point and exclamation as he puts the phone down to chase her.

Or possibly another possibility is that she had the gun the whole time but he didn’t believe she would do anything with it, he calls Jeremy to help because he’s concerned that if he tries to take the gun off her then it could accidentally go off and injure either him or her, same for not getting June involved but he thinks Jeremy’s extra strength (or ability to negotiate) might work to avoid someone accidentally getting injured. Whilst he’s waiting for Jeremy to answer He and Sheila are still arguing across the kitchen which is why she doesn’t run off till he’s distracted by now speaking to Jeremy on the phone once he answers, when the phone is just ringing he can still focus on talking to Sheila.

Both of these are only suggestions - if the call took place then no one will ever know what really happened it can only be guessed at.

[Adam]

I agree that Sheila could be holding a rifle and be calm.

Nevill was the one person who could calm her down!

[guest7363]

Yes, I think likewise, when I was younger I was much sharper and would be up at 4 or 4.30 for similar reasons.  I used to cycle 60 miles a day to and from a factory in York at one point, just to keep myself fit!  I can't quite believe that I did that.  I certainly couldn't do that now.  I'd collapse if I tried that today. 

Jeremy was a presumably fit young farmer.  He watched TV that night until late.  Etc., etc.

Wow well done you, I’ve just read about Alan Turing and he cycled 60 miles to college and 60 miles back from Southampton to Sherborne on his first day.  I think it was a regular commute.  He was also a long distance runner and only 11 minutes of Olympic standard. 

It wasn’t Rowntree by the way, I think my wife would have cycled that distance to work there.  I’ve just recently cycled to Selby and Bridlington, I’m hoping to do York next Spring. I’m sure you’d easily get back into it, have you looked at the trails instead of Road Cycling?

Anyway back to the thread.

[Adam]

There could be a couple of possibilities in the call, we don’t know the tone of Nevill’s voice, maybe there had been an argument in the kitchen with him and Sheila without the gun, he calls Jeremy to give a hand as she’s being particularly aggressive (could the scratch marks come from here?) he doesn’t want to get June involved as he doesn’t want to risk her being hurt with Sheila in that mood so calls Jeremy whilst there is a stand off. The call is intended to be “can you please come and give me a hand? Your sisters being difficult” And the call starts in that vain, however whilst he’s talking Sheila grabs the gun for the first time and runs off - so his “she’s got a gun” is actually a separate thought/point and exclamation as he puts the phone down to chase her.

Or possibly another possibility is that she had the gun the whole time but he didn’t believe she would do anything with it, he calls Jeremy to help because he’s concerned that if he tries to take the gun off her then it could accidentally go off and injure either him or her, same for not getting June involved but he thinks Jeremy’s extra strength (or ability to negotiate) might work to avoid someone accidentally getting injured. Whilst he’s waiting for Jeremy to answer He and Sheila are still arguing across the kitchen which is why she doesn’t run off till he’s distracted by now speaking to Jeremy on the phone once he answers, when the phone is just ringing he can still focus on talking to Sheila.

Both of these are only suggestions - if the call took place then no one will ever know what really happened it can only be guessed at.

Again lots of 'maybe's'. They are your own self created 'maybe's'.

[Adam]

Nevill's alledged call to Bamber is certainly the weirdest call ever.

It benefits Nevill in no way, takes several minutes, it's at 3am & Nevill only says 11 words before putting the phone down!

But 'maybe'.....

[Kestrel19]

Well given that it comes down to two options
1) The call didn’t take place and Jeremy is guilty so none of this happened
Or
2) The call did take place, Jeremy is innocent and no one will ever know for sure what happened

Then surely there will always be maybe’s, it’s a suggestion to answer your question nothing more  - I’m sure others can either build on it, point out flaws or just have their own views.

[guest29835]

Wow well done you, I’ve just read about Alan Turing and he cycled 60 miles to college and 60 miles back from Southampton to Sherborne on his first day.  I think it was a regular commute.  He was also a long distance runner and only 11 minutes of Olympic standard. 

It wasn’t Rowntree by the way, I think my wife would have cycled that distance to work there.  I’ve just recently cycled to Selby and Bridlington, I’m hoping to do York next Spring. I’m sure you’d easily get back into it, have you looked at the trails instead of Road Cycling?

Anyway back to the thread.

Just to make clear, it was 30 miles each way, not 60 miles.  Will try your suggestion.  Used to run half-marathons.  Now I'd collapse after 5 miles!  LOL.

Anyway, as you say, the thread has been interesting.  Everybody will come to their own conclusions.  For me, trying to test the scenario brings up more questions.  It's never-ending.