Author Topic: Levi Bellfield statement should be game changer for Michael Stone  (Read 6085 times)

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guest29835

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Re: Levi Bellfield statement should be game changer for Michael Stone
« Reply #15 on: September 10, 2021, 05:59:PM »
I doubt it. If that was the case why wait this long? Levi Bellfield has actually changed his name to Yusuf Rahim. Its believed that he has superficially converted to Islam in order to get protection from Islamist radicals. Admitting to the murder and attempted murder of two children is not going to do him any favours.

More of a sub-conscious thing.

Offline David1819

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Re: Levi Bellfield statement should be game changer for Michael Stone
« Reply #16 on: September 10, 2021, 06:39:PM »
     
     The recent developments make it all the more baffling that Kent Police are still refusing to investigate, or perhaps make it clear why Kent Police are not re-investigating.


I don't think Kent police can re-investigate because in the eyes of the law the case is solved and closed. Only once Stones conviction gets overturned can they do anything.


Online Roch

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Re: Levi Bellfield statement should be game changer for Michael Stone
« Reply #17 on: September 10, 2021, 08:32:PM »
Regarding the Maidstone murder attributed to Stone in the wiki article. That was 30 mins walk from my house at the time. Not that I would have known about it, I was only about 7 at the time.

Offline gringo

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Re: Levi Bellfield statement should be game changer for Michael Stone
« Reply #18 on: September 10, 2021, 10:07:PM »
I don't think Kent police can re-investigate because in the eyes of the law the case is solved and closed. Only once Stones conviction gets overturned can they do anything.
   https://www.kentonline.co.uk/canterbury/news/kent-police-wont-investigate-bellfields-chillenden-claims-253475/


    They are refusing rather than being prevented.

Offline David1819

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Re: Levi Bellfield statement should be game changer for Michael Stone
« Reply #19 on: September 10, 2021, 10:24:PM »
   https://www.kentonline.co.uk/canterbury/news/kent-police-wont-investigate-bellfields-chillenden-claims-253475/


    They are refusing rather than being prevented.

Its not the polices job to investigate potential miscarriages of justice. That is for the CCRC to investigate (however ineffective they may be).

Offline gringo

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Re: Levi Bellfield statement should be game changer for Michael Stone
« Reply #20 on: September 11, 2021, 12:54:AM »
Regarding the Maidstone murder attributed to Stone in the wiki article. That was 30 mins walk from my house at the time. Not that I would have known about it, I was only about 7 at the time.
   30 mins walk, there is about as much evidence that you did it, Roch, as there is Stone.
     The articles linked to that make this claim offer zero evidence to support it. The claim is akin to the sort of claims made by CAL et al. regarding Bamber.
     It is said that he told a psychiatrist he had killed the police officer, Francis Jegou. She then reported this to the police. It seems from reading the links in the wiki article that this claim has undergone a transformation of "Chinese Whispers" each time it is reported.
      First of all in the Independent on 23 October 1998;

FOR YEARS, Michael Stone had fantasised about killing. By the summer of 1996, fuelled by mental instability and chronic drug addiction, this petty thief was ready to make it reality.

But before he acted he had begged for help. He begged his psychiatric nurse, Margaret Stewart, to get him treatment. Five days before the Russell murders, she told police he had told her he was going to kill. Entry after entry in his medical notes included murderous threats, fantasies of torture, and names of those who had done him wrong.


      Later in the same article, the following;

He may even have killed before. When he was arrested for the Russell murders he was questioned over the death of a former special constable, Francis Jegou, who died in a knife attack in Maidstone in September 1976, when Stone was 16.

    I would assume that this is the psychiatrist who called the Crimewatch programme naming Stone as a possible suspect. It is noticeable that Stone was first questioned about the murder of Francis Jegou in 1996 when he was arrested for the Chillenden murders. 20 years later, whilst framing him for the Chillenden killings. Zero evidence or credibility to the accusation. There is no mention in the article of him confessing the murder to his psychiatrist. This claim appears later and appears to be invented by conflating facts and assertions from earlier articles.
    I take back my claim of hearsay made earlier. Hearsay is a way higher bar than this recycled Chinese Whisper of baseless accusations.
    To those who make the claim that Stone was suspected of the murder of Francis Jegou.
    "Suspected" is doing some serious heavy lifting in that sentence.

     The issue is not whether Stone is or isn't dangerous. If he is then he should be convicted of things he has done not somebody else's crimes.
     If the wrong person was convicted and Bellfield is guilty, then the issue is the huge and destructive killing and violence spree that could have been prevented but wasn't.
Defending or justifying Stone's conviction on the grounds of his poor character is the most perverse example of "Noble Cause Corruption" i have encountered.
     Usually the "justification" for NCC is that it is "known" that the suspect did the crime in question but incriminating evidence is elusive.
     In this case, it seems that NCC stretches to include knowing that the suspect didn't do the crime but because he is a "wrong un" it's ok. This despite the crimes in question being the most heinous and the consequences of convicting the wrong person for crimes of this magnitude being too obvious to spell out. Levi Bellfield's crimes post Chillenden do spell out the consequences in graphic detail.
     Discussing allegations about Stone is letting Kent Police off the hook.



   



 

Offline gringo

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Re: Levi Bellfield statement should be game changer for Michael Stone
« Reply #21 on: September 11, 2021, 01:02:AM »
Its not the polices job to investigate potential miscarriages of justice. That is for the CCRC to investigate (however ineffective they may be).
   Did you read the article? It isn't my opinion that Kent Police are refusing. That is what Kent Police themselves say. Several named officers are quoted. None of them make the claims that you are making. I have linked to the article saying this and there are many others if you bother to look. Your opinion isn't even based on anything.

Offline David1819

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Re: Levi Bellfield statement should be game changer for Michael Stone
« Reply #22 on: September 11, 2021, 03:26:AM »
   Did you read the article? It isn't my opinion that Kent Police are refusing. That is what Kent Police themselves say. Several named officers are quoted. None of them make the claims that you are making. I have linked to the article saying this and there are many others if you bother to look. Your opinion isn't even based on anything.

Yes I did.

They said -

"The force’s head of major crime, Detective Superintendent Paul Fotheringham, said: "Following two trials and an unsuccessful appeal to the High Court, Michael Stone remains convicted of the murders of Lin and Megan Russell and the attempted murder of Josie Russell."


Offline gringo

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Re: Levi Bellfield statement should be game changer for Michael Stone
« Reply #23 on: September 11, 2021, 04:01:AM »
Yes I did.

They said -

"The force’s head of major crime, Detective Superintendent Paul Fotheringham, said: "Following two trials and an unsuccessful appeal to the High Court, Michael Stone remains convicted of the murders of Lin and Megan Russell and the attempted murder of Josie Russell."
   "They" said some other things as well, such as;
    "Furthermore, a comprehensive investigation was carried out by the Metropolitan Police Service into allegations concerning Levi Bellfield and it concluded that there is no evidence to support those claims.

     So a police force has already investigated allegations concerning Bellfield. Your position is that they can't because Stone is convicted. You quote something that doesn't in any way support the original contention that you made and leave out the bits that show that you are making this up as you go along.

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Levi Bellfield statement should be game changer for Michael Stone
« Reply #24 on: September 11, 2021, 05:23:AM »
   "They" said some other things as well, such as;
    "Furthermore, a comprehensive investigation was carried out by the Metropolitan Police Service into allegations concerning Levi Bellfield and it concluded that there is no evidence to support those claims.

     So a police force has already investigated allegations concerning Bellfield. Your position is that they can't because Stone is convicted. You quote something that doesn't in any way support the original contention that you made and leave out the bits that show that you are making this up as you go along.
I'd like to know more about the confession, and in particular "a number of facts that are not in the public domain." https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-42144445

Offline David1819

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Re: Levi Bellfield statement should be game changer for Michael Stone
« Reply #25 on: September 11, 2021, 03:41:PM »
   "They" said some other things as well, such as;
    "Furthermore, a comprehensive investigation was carried out by the Metropolitan Police Service into allegations concerning Levi Bellfield and it concluded that there is no evidence to support those claims.

     So a police force has already investigated allegations concerning Bellfield. Your position is that they can't because Stone is convicted. You quote something that doesn't in any way support the original contention that you made and leave out the bits that show that you are making this up as you go along.

The police investigation you are referring to was to investigate a "series of unsolved rapes and murders." It had nothing to do with investigating potential miscarriages of justice.


https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/nov/09/no-evidence-to-link-levi-bellfield-to-fresh-crimes-says-met-police

Offline gringo

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Re: Levi Bellfield statement should be game changer for Michael Stone
« Reply #26 on: September 11, 2021, 05:53:PM »
The police investigation you are referring to was to investigate a "series of unsolved rapes and murders." It had nothing to do with investigating potential miscarriages of justice.


https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/nov/09/no-evidence-to-link-levi-bellfield-to-fresh-crimes-says-met-police
    Nobody said that it was the job of the police to investigate MOJ's. You are arguing with yourself after moving the goalposts.
     The police can obviously reopen, even so called solved cases, if new information comes to light.
     So why aren't they?

Offline David1819

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Re: Levi Bellfield statement should be game changer for Michael Stone
« Reply #27 on: September 11, 2021, 09:54:PM »
     The police can obviously reopen, even so called solved cases, if new information comes to light.
     So why aren't they?

Show me an example of a police force pursuing an alternative suspect for a crime, after someone has already been tried and convicted of the exact same crime?
« Last Edit: September 11, 2021, 10:55:PM by David1819 »

Offline gringo

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Re: Levi Bellfield statement should be game changer for Michael Stone
« Reply #28 on: September 11, 2021, 11:43:PM »
Show me an example of a police force pursuing an alternative suspect for a crime, after someone has already been tried and convicted of exact same crime?
    The ever moving goalposts shift again. Instead of taking a series of untenable positions and making irrelevant points, what you should have done is a quick google search(or a search engine of your choice) and asked the simple question; Can the police reopen a closed or solved case?, or something to that effect. Then do some reading.
     Had you done so you would have saved yourself the bother of writing several posts of ill made and incorrect points. The information now available, along with other developments(shoelace DNA), alleged confession etc. warrant investigation by the police. Despite your nonsensical posts there is nothing to prevent the police doing so.
     That would explain why Stone's legal team have asked police to investigate. The police refusal to do so failed to mention that they weren't allowed to. Perhaps you should tell them.

Online Roch

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Re: Levi Bellfield statement should be game changer for Michael Stone
« Reply #29 on: September 11, 2021, 11:43:PM »
Show me an example of a police force pursuing an alternative suspect for a crime, after someone has already been tried and convicted of the exact same crime?

Is that not a testiment to institutionalised force-wide arrogance?
« Last Edit: September 11, 2021, 11:44:PM by Roch »