Author Topic: US / UK foreign policy - yet another embarrassment  (Read 5740 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline David1819

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 12664
Re: US / UK foreign policy - yet another embarrassment
« Reply #90 on: August 24, 2021, 01:40:PM »
That is a truly pathetic response. I hope everyone is reading this. 

What is the time difference between Power disclosing the client and Duff's paper being published?

You do realise that for one year, the anonymous official version of events had the alleged bombers getting on a train to London that was actually cancelled and therefore never existed!  So if you're going to dismiss Duff's entire paper for failing to label Power's client, where does that leave the official version of events for one of the biggest loss of life on UK soil?  It's not like they did due diligence on the trains 😂

I have not even read or used any of the government enquiries on this topic. Since I gathered you would just claim it was propaganda to cover up. Thus I turned to the only alternative source, that being the second party (Al-Qaeda). If Al-Qaeda's own admission of training two of the four bombers to carry out the particular attack one year to the day of the attack, is not enough for you, then I don't know what is. 
« Last Edit: August 24, 2021, 01:45:PM by David1819 »

Offline Roch

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16219
Re: US / UK foreign policy - yet another embarrassment
« Reply #91 on: August 24, 2021, 04:08:PM »
I have not even read or used any of the government enquiries on this topic. Since I gathered you would just claim it was propaganda to cover up. Thus I turned to the only alternative source, that being the second party (Al-Qaeda). If Al-Qaeda's own admission of training two of the four bombers to carry out the particular attack one year to the day of the attack, is not enough for you, then I don't know what is.

I think you are accepting these videos at face value. As if you witnessed them being made. When I have time I will try to explain.

What needs to be considered, is how might security services go about the business of infiltrating and even controlling so called 'terror cells'.

Offline David1819

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 12664
Re: US / UK foreign policy - yet another embarrassment
« Reply #92 on: August 24, 2021, 04:49:PM »
In the 2011, the Americans claimed they found evidence that Osama Binladen knew of the 7/7 attacks before they took place. They came to this conclusion after going through material collected from his compound.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/officials-bin-laden-knew-7-7-attacks-advance-2313298.html

Fast forward to 2016/17. A lot of this material was de-classified. There is a ton of information there and I am not going to sift through 250gb of material.

https://www.cia.gov/library/abbottabad-compound/index.html

https://www.dni.gov/index.php/features/bin-laden-s-bookshelf


Offline Roch

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16219
Re: US / UK foreign policy - yet another embarrassment
« Reply #93 on: August 24, 2021, 07:16:PM »
In the 2011, the Americans claimed they found evidence that Osama Binladen knew of the 7/7 attacks before they took place. They came to this conclusion after going through material collected from his compound.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/officials-bin-laden-knew-7-7-attacks-advance-2313298.html

Fast forward to 2016/17. A lot of this material was de-classified. There is a ton of information there and I am not going to sift through 250gb of material.

https://www.cia.gov/library/abbottabad-compound/index.html

https://www.dni.gov/index.php/features/bin-laden-s-bookshelf

This is 9/11 related. I recognize that there's a 9/11 and 7/7 context / dynamic but I presently am more interested in 7/7. The problem with stuff like this, is that it's a bit like Tommy Mair's book case. A bit 'made to order'.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2021, 07:17:PM by Roch »

Offline David1819

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 12664
Re: US / UK foreign policy - yet another embarrassment
« Reply #94 on: August 24, 2021, 08:00:PM »
This is 9/11 related. I recognize that there's a 9/11 and 7/7 context / dynamic but I presently am more interested in 7/7. The problem with stuff like this, is that it's a bit like Tommy Mair's book case. A bit 'made to order'.

So you are saying they have fabricated over 400,000 files including this letter to his mom and translated it?

https://www.dni.gov/files/documents/ubl2017/english/Letter%20to%20Mom.pdf

Interestingly enough he had books on 9/11 conspiracies  :))

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-32816412

Look at this list of English books he had. Does that look "made to order"?

https://www.dni.gov/index.php/features/bin-laden-s-bookshelf?start=5
« Last Edit: August 24, 2021, 08:04:PM by David1819 »

Offline Roch

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16219
Re: US / UK foreign policy - yet another embarrassment
« Reply #95 on: August 24, 2021, 09:31:PM »
So you are saying they have fabricated over 400,000 files including this letter to his mom and translated it?

https://www.dni.gov/files/documents/ubl2017/english/Letter%20to%20Mom.pdf

Interestingly enough he had books on 9/11 conspiracies  :))

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-32816412

Look at this list of English books he had. Does that look "made to order"?

https://www.dni.gov/index.php/features/bin-laden-s-bookshelf?start=5

A plot on paper involving men training as pilots to fly in to US buildings does not preclude American involvement. The plot would probably have never got off the ground in any way or form without American involvement. Whatever books were (or were not) in some compound doesn't mean anything in real terms.

It's the same with 7/7. Even if two of the participants were involved in some way in training (that wasn't itself a product of infiltration on the part of UK security services), it is of no meaningful significance if they don't make it on time on to tube trains that end up exploding anyway.  Thomas Mair's holdall cannot be different to the holdall presented by police as evidence.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2021, 09:32:PM by Roch »

Offline David1819

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 12664
Re: US / UK foreign policy - yet another embarrassment
« Reply #96 on: August 24, 2021, 09:55:PM »
A plot on paper involving men training as pilots to fly in to US buildings does not preclude American involvement. The plot would probably have never got off the ground in any way or form without American involvement. Whatever books were (or were not) in some compound doesn't mean anything in real terms.

It's the same with 7/7. Even if two of the participants were involved in some way in training (that wasn't itself a product of infiltration on the part of UK security services), it is of no meaningful significance if they don't make it on time on to tube trains that end up exploding anyway.  Thomas Mair's holdall cannot be different to the holdall presented by police as evidence.

So, you are now saying Al-Qaeda did commit the attacks but the government turned a blind eye and let them go ahead?

Offline Roch

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16219
Re: US / UK foreign policy - yet another embarrassment
« Reply #97 on: August 24, 2021, 10:02:PM »
So, you are now saying Al-Qaeda did commit the attacks but the government turned a blind eye and let them go ahead?

Not quite. But not far off. I think somebody came up with the idea and US ran with it. More than just letting something happen. I also do not know how anybody can deem the footage to be genuine in places. Also, the idea that hijacker's passport found at ground zero. Come on.

Offline David1819

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 12664
Re: US / UK foreign policy - yet another embarrassment
« Reply #98 on: August 24, 2021, 10:18:PM »
Not quite. But not far off. I think somebody came up with the idea and US ran with it. More than just letting something happen. I also do not know how anybody can deem the footage to be genuine in places. Also, the idea that hijacker's passport found at ground zero. Come on.

If you look at a site called documentingreality.com and look at plane crash sites. It very common for peoples belongings to get scattered around the place after the explosion.

Here is Binladen in 1997

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orawG7vt68o

guest29835

  • Guest
Re: US / UK foreign policy - yet another embarrassment
« Reply #99 on: August 31, 2021, 04:55:PM »
Another poem.  I think Kipling would approve of the withdrawal from Afghanistan...

The Young British Soldier
by Rudyard Kipling

WHEN the 'arf-made recruity goes out to the East
'E acts like a babe an' 'e drinks like a beast,
An' 'e wonders because 'e is frequent deceased
Ere 'e's fit for to serve as a soldier.
Serve, serve, serve as a soldier,
Serve, serve, serve as a soldier,
Serve, serve, serve as a soldier,
So-oldier of the Queen!

Now all you recruities what's drafted to-day,
You shut up your rag-box an' 'ark to my lay,
An' I'll sing you a soldier as far as I may:
A soldier what's fit for a soldier.
Fit, fit, fit for a soldier . . .

First mind you steer clear o' the grog-sellers' huts,
For they sell you Fixed Bay'nets that rots out your guts -
Ay, drink that 'ud eat the live steel from your butts -
An' it's bad for the young British soldier.
Bad, bad, bad for the soldier . . .

When the cholera comes - as it will past a doubt -
Keep out of the wet and don't go on the shout,
For the sickness gets in as the liquor dies out,
An' it crumples the young British soldier.
 Crum-, crum-, crumples the soldier . . .

But the worst o' your foes is the sun over'ead:
You must wear your 'elmet for all that is said:
If 'e finds you uncovered 'e'll knock you down dead,
An' you'll die like a fool of a soldier.
Fool, fool, fool of a soldier . . .

If you're cast for fatigue by a sergeant unkind,
Don't grouse like a woman nor crack on nor blind;
Be handy and civil, and then you will find
That it's beer for the young British soldier.
 Beer, beer, beer for the soldier . . .

Now, if you must marry, take care she is old -
A troop-sergeant's widow's the nicest I'm told,
For beauty won't help if your rations is cold,
Nor love ain't enough for a soldier.
'Nough, 'nough, 'nough for a soldier . . .

If the wife should go wrong with a comrade, be loath
To shoot when you catch 'em - you'll swing, on my oath! -
Make 'im take 'er and keep 'er: that's Hell for them both,
An' you're shut o' the curse of a soldier.
Curse, curse, curse of a soldier . . .

When first under fire an' you're wishful to duck,
Don't look nor take 'eed at the man that is struck,
Be thankful you're livin', and trust to your luck
And march to your front like a soldier.
Front, front, front like a soldier . . .

When 'arf of your bullets fly wide in the ditch,
Don't call your Martini a cross-eyed old bitch;
She's human as you are - you treat her as sich,
An' she'll fight for the young British soldier.
Fight, fight, fight for the soldier . . .

When shakin' their bustles like ladies so fine,
The guns o' the enemy wheel into line,
Shoot low at the limbers an' don't mind the shine,
For noise never startles the soldier.
Start-, start-, startles the soldier . . .

If your officer's dead and the sergeants look white,
Remember it's ruin to run from a fight:
So take open order, lie down, and sit tight,
And wait for supports like a soldier.
Wait, wait, wait like a soldier . . .

When you're wounded and left on Afghanistan's plains,
And the women come out to cut up what remains,
Jest roll to your rifle and blow out your brains
An' go to your Gawd like a soldier.
Go, go, go like a soldier,
Go, go, go like a soldier,
Go, go, go like a soldier,
So-oldier of the Queen!

Offline Roch

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16219
Re: US / UK foreign policy - yet another embarrassment
« Reply #100 on: August 31, 2021, 05:15:PM »
Re Kipling, I watched some kind of drama or drama docu about him pushing for his son to be able to fight in WW1. Think he had some kind of sight impairment. Anyway, he got his way in the end. However, his son was killed in action. I'm not sure whether his sight impairment contributed to his death, though I think the drama depicted such.

Online Steve_uk

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 18058
Re: US / UK foreign policy - yet another embarrassment
« Reply #101 on: February 23, 2022, 09:56:PM »
Are the economic chickens coming home to roost..https://youtu.be/cRlYM2apwbU