THE SILENCER SAGA

[mike tesko]

Can members suggest an item for the missing DB1? Please do not use this an excuse for ribaldry. It is a very serious question deserving of a serious answer.

Everything, points, to the item bearing the exhibit reference of 'DB/1', lab' item reference no. 23, as not having been a silencer, at all. Infact, lab' item no. 23 [exhibit reference, 'DB/1'] was infact, 'the flake of blood' [`sticky', 'jam-like', 'blob'] which 'David Boutflour' 'scraped from the outer casing', of 'the silencer' that 'he found at the scene' on the '10th August 1985'. The `fact of the matter`, is that on 'the evening of the  12th August 1985', 'Peter Eaton' [a `registered gun`,'dealor'] did 'not hand over' to 'DS Jones'['a silencer'] , on 'that occasion', since, 'the silencer', [`David Boutflour'] he 'himself' had found initially', belonged to 'the Bamber', 'owned', '.22 Anshuzt, semi-automatic 'rifle'. 'That', 'however', regarding 'this particular part' of the 'prosecutions', 'various scripts'. This 'particular approach' or 'action',  the 'silencer' which 'David Boutflour' recovered 'from the farmhouse' on 'the 10th August 1985' [the,`Bamber owned silencer'] , only 'had 14 internal baffle plates', 'not the crucial 17 internalised baffle plates', inside 'which was discovered' the 'key blood group evidence', and, 'or' the 'red paint' that was 'eventually found', or 'contaminated', and, 'or' falsified'..

[killingeve]

THE MISSING ITEM DB1

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As a result of recent communications on this thread, I believe we have agreed that DB1 thru DB7 exhibits were collected while WHF was a crime scene (07/08/85 – 09/08/85).

The exact day is of little relevance. My best guess is the first day because DS Davidson was in attendance and DB says he passed him his finds, particularly the blue socks. DB went to the mortuary for recording on day one pm and again to further autopsies on the second day, returning to WHF for a meeting late in the afternoon. I have no evidence as to whether DS Davidson was present. I do not know if DB attended on day 3 before the handing over of the keys to the relatives.

We agree that DB collected a soil sample(s) in September as noted in his pocket book. However, If the above is true, this should have been recorded as DB8 and not DB1 according to his explanation of how he collected exhibits.

Even if this is a misreporting or an accident, it does not tell us what the original item DB1 collected from the crime scene was.

The only item in all the case paperwork currently available is a silencer or sound moderator originally recorded as DB1 which was later changed to DRB1 when the finder was said to be David Robert Boutflour and not David Bird.

"That is not a fact." David 1819 reply 358.

David is quite right to say the swap was not a fact. I should have been more circumspect in my language used and said that the fact that maybe the silencer was swapped hurt JB.

However, it does appear that something like a swap may have happened. Members can come to their own conclusions.

Can members suggest an item for the missing DB1? Please do not use this an excuse for ribaldry. It is a very serious question deserving of a serious answer.

I have yet to receive a plausible and rational argument regarding the two statements and additionally ask for the following to be considered
.
Why are there no photographs of DB’s finds, in situ, before he collected and processed them? The only picture we have is DB6 blue socks.

He describes to us, that this is the procedure used by the SOCO officers.

There has only ever been one silencer in this case.  It was found by Mr Boutflour jnr and handed to DS Jones who took meticulous care of it by wrapping it in the cardboard inner of a kitchen roll thus preserving its integrity.  Supporters come up with all sorts of nonsense ranging from multiple silencers to deliberate contamination by relatives dripping blood inside or using Sheila's stained period blood knickers.  Anything other than admit its damning evidence against Bamber. 

[lookout]

Going back a few years there's always been two silencers, documented too ! There are a couple such letters of proof on the forum.

[Bubo bubo]

Everything, points, to the item bearing the exhibit reference of 'DB/1', lab' item reference no. 23, as not having been a silencer, at all. Infact, lab' item no. 23 [exhibit reference, 'DB/1'] was infact, 'the flake of blood' which 'David Boutflour' 'scraped from the outer casing', of 'the silencer' that 'he found at the scene' on the '10th August 1985'. The fact of the matter, is that on 'the evening of the  12th August 1985', was that 'Peter Eaton' [a `registered gun`,'dealor'] did 'not hand over' to 'DS Jones', on 'that occasion', since, 'the silencer'  he 'himself' had found initially', belonged to 'the Bamber owned' and 'a rifle'. 'That, however, this particuler' advice  and action, silencer bearing only 14 internal baffle plates

I cannot agree. If SBJ handed RC a SM it had to be either one given to him between 11.35 and 14.30 by DB on 07/08/85 or the SM presented by the family. I do not believe the family found a SM on 10/08/85. They found it or used it some time later when Ainsley was in charge. But they had to bring the find date forward so that it could be the only one involved in the case. And it had to be found early enough so that it could be the one sent to the lab on 13/08/85.

Taff was clever enough to see where they were coming from given their behaviour towards him and EP.
Do not forget that there is a possibility that NB did phone the police (This was hidden, like who found DB1?) and that signs of life were observed during the so called siege. So why would he have any interest in a piece of evidence proffered by a mendacious family.

You yourself have shown us that Basil Cock was at WHF when the find was made and correctly observed it had to be later because of the fingerprint dust.

I believe this was a staged event. Using a legal  representative as a witness. But and it is a big but, when further into the organising of the frame they discovered records of an SM being sent to the lab. Whose records they could not change to fit.

Hence the bringing forward of the find date.

Besides all of this would look mighty strange if this happened before JM came forward.

The item that would be the only source of JB's conviction would be a SM found by the family.

[guest29835]

Going back a few years there's always been two silencers, documented too ! There are a couple such letters of proof on the forum.

Yes, you may be referring to the FSS examination reports, which I have seen as well.  They clearly document two different silencers.

[killingeve]

Yes, you may be referring to the FSS examination reports, which I have seen as well.  They clearly document two different silencers.

The resident criminal barriser here has already said there were at least four silencers and possibly a fith.  So what?  Only one had incriminating evidence in/on it - blood, paint and a hair - and that's the one that rightly convicted Bamber.  Slam dunk.  Try and get out of that one pal!

[guest29835]

The resident criminal barriser here has already said there were at least four silencers and possibly a fith.  So what?  Only one had incriminating evidence in/on it - blood, paint and a hair - and that's the one that rightly convicted Bamber.  Slam dunk.  Try and get out of that one pal!

We're not pals.  Let's just clear that one up for starters.

I have no idea about four or five silencers.  I am aware of FSS records that show two different silencers were examined, one found with paint, the other found with blood.  The documents are already uploaded to the Forum.

[Bubo bubo]

The resident criminal barriser here has already said there were at least four silencers and possibly a fith.  So what?  Only one had incriminating evidence in/on it - blood, paint and a hair - and that's the one that rightly convicted Bamber.  Slam dunk.  Try and get out of that one pal!

Yes he has but when you look at the sources of the other three it is clear they played no part in events. I believe he explained the sources.

[Bubo bubo]

We're not pals.  Let's just clear that one up for starters.

I have no idea about four or five silencers.  I am aware of FSS records that show two different silencers were examined, one found with paint, the other found with blood.  The documents are already uploaded to the Forum.

Just hope CC doesn't move on to another moniker like matey.

[killingeve]

We're not pals.  Let's just clear that one up for starters.

I have no idea about four or five silencers.  I am aware of FSS records that show two different silencers were examined, one found with paint, the other found with blood.  The documents are already uploaded to the Forum.

Yeah like the phone call from Mr Bamber snr  a 999 call from Sheila  someone alive inside the farmhouse when police arrived  swapped bullet  Sheila first observed in kitchen  police shooting Sheila  police using farmhouse as a training exercise  all concerned fabricating the silencer evidence  swapping this that and the other for soil samples   

The review commission and appeal courts need a medal for dealing with this utter nonsense. 

[killingeve]

Yes he has but when you look at the sources of the other three it is clear they played no part in events. I believe he explained the sources.

So if he has explained 3 then surely that only leaves the one that secured Bamber's fate?

[killingeve]

Just hope CC doesn't move on to another moniker like matey.

Eh that's enought of that love 

[Bubo bubo]

So if he has explained 3 then surely that only leaves the one that secured Bamber's fate?

Five minus 3 = 2 not 1

[guest29835]

Yeah like the phone call from Mr Bamber snr  a 999 call from Sheila  someone alive inside the farmhouse when police arrived  swapped bullet  Sheila first observed in kitchen  police shooting Sheila  police using farmhouse as a training exercise  all concerned fabricating the silencer evidence  swapping this that and the other for soil samples   

The review commission and appeal courts need a medal for dealing with this utter nonsense.

Don't know what you're on about.  As I've literally just told you, the documents are uploaded to the Forum.  They are FSS examination reports.

[killingeve]

Don't know what you're on about.  As I've literally just told you, the documents are uploaded to the Forum.  They are FSS examination reports.

Course they are and there's only one interpretation