Author Topic: THE SILENCER SAGA  (Read 67910 times)

0 Members and 28 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Bubo bubo

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3331
THE SILENCER SAGA
« on: August 14, 2021, 12:09:PM »
i have put together some of my ideas, thoughts, views on the Sound Moderator. I will be posting in segments. I cannot lock a thread so would suggest that you keep responses to a minimum  to provide a modicum of continuity. but will happily discuss later in the process.

Offline Bubo bubo

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3331
Re: THE SILENCER SAGA
« Reply #1 on: August 14, 2021, 12:14:PM »

THE SILENCER SAGA PART 1


Like many Jeremy supporters I have spent hours pondering the Silencer evidence. When I first started my investigations I took a completely neutral stance. I started with the notion that both the police and Jeremy were telling the truth and that somehow quite by chance in a psychotic episode Sheila had framed Jeremy by her actions in creating the crime scene.

There are three possibilities for the blood inside the SM. It was caused by back spatter (many feel this though possible unlikely with the Anschutz for technical reasons). The other two are contamination either accidental or deliberate.

I considered the accidental contamination in some detail. My most favoured possibility was a nose bleed from an unknown event. Whilst fitting or removing the silencer with the butt on the ground, blood entered as it dripped from her nose. Many other suggestions have been proposed.

Deliberate contamination would require intimate knowledge and access to the silencer as well as blood which matched Sheila’s serologically.

When it was found is also a key issue to be considered. Various suggestions have been made in addition to the Crowns narrative.

Jeremy in his Tumbler article suggests that a silencer was found a month later than that stated (11/09/85) and that another silencer was found on the day.

The relatives say they found a silencer 11/08/85.

What is more, John Hayward received the silencer on (12/09/85) from MF and it was still being referred to as DB1. Despite its enumeration changing over time SJ1, DRB1. There is no chain of custody available to help unravel what actually happened to it. In such circumstances it is possible that it moved between the police and relatives without any paperwork

Examples of this may be as follows.

They collected JB’s SM on the day but upon examination they returned it to the cupboard in its box before returning the keys to the family on 09/07/85. They were sure it was not used.

The family presented the SM to the police as they claim but it was rejected and returned. Only later did they recreate the finding including paperwork when they wanted to frame JB.

We know the police were most interested in it from a finger print perspective. In addition to routine tests it was tested for prints by superglue fuming. We also know that RC dismantled it on 21/08/85 and no blood flake was recorded as being found.

However, I do believe that a silencer was used and most probably discarded sometime during the events. Some damage to the thread of a rifle suggests a possible cross threading. I find its number illuminating DB1 (David Bird?) and the next item DB2 Fire debris. Two key pieces of evidence from the kitchen which must have been in close proximity to share consecutive numbers.

All these facts/issues give rise to a whole host of potential scenarios and many, especially by MT, have been suggested. Back in May 2012 I believed that the silencer was genuine (accidentally contaminated) but was found after Julie had come forward. This would make it a ‘suspicious’ item from a legal angle. I wrote the following.

The silencer could be a complete fabrication but I think not. If the police wanted to get evidence against Jeremy in the first instance there were other easier means that they could have used. They could have found a blood stained casing lodged in a piece of clothing. In any case if Jeremy's info is right they would certainly have ensured that it was logged/booked in on the right date. It needed two blood types and the paint from the mantelpiece and it would have to have been done well after the event. Not impossible but difficult. The same goes for the family, for them it would be even harder and they could not be sure that the police would not see it as a "ringer".  I believe they were motivated in the first instance to get justice for their dead loved ones though that may have changed. They wanted closure that the police did not provide with their "theory".

So I think the silencer was genuine though today it is probably worthless as a piece of evidence after all the examinations. The problem was it was found too late but I believe the family pressured the police to use it. They were prepared to lie about all the issues around its discovery and its condition. Given that they probably knew that other evidence had been corrupted they could make Essex Police look like a "right Shower" and as it looked ok as a piece of evidence I'm sure the police decided to use it at trial as per perfect crime scenario.

For the record my views on silencer are:

1 It was found late
2 It was recreated because it had lost its potency through one reason or another.
3 It was enhanced in some way
4 It was manufactured to be a killer of an exhibit.
5 It was accidentally created in some way.

The reality is that it could be the work of just one individual, be it a policeman or a relative. It might just involve one of each. As long as they remain silent we may never know the whole truth about it. On the other hand, it could be genuine, though it is looking less so. More of the police pieces of the jigsaw are required.


It is clear I was far from certain at that time as to what the real truth of the silencer actually was.

My supposition was/is that the silencer was denuded of its visual and technical characteristics. Probably GH had removed most of if not all of the paint, if indeed there was any in the first instance. She had also tested the external and visible blood. It had been covered in fingerprinting dust and the superglue treatment would likely have impacted the appearance.

Could it be exhibited at trial in this state?

What struck me the most was the fact that after all this manipulation and treatment it could still yield a blood evidence result that could identify the basic ABO grouping. Not only that but in this case other elements such as enzymes had also been captured. I was and still am sceptical that this was possible.
 
I was pleased when posters on red discussed this aspect in detail. HG on red suggested repeating the conditions endured by the SM to see if a full blood reading could be obtained.

Number two above was looking a stronger candidate.

I decided to look at other aspects of the case since like so much of this case it appeared futile to pursue the SM story without access to more evidential documents.



Offline Bubo bubo

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3331
Re: THE SILENCER SAGA
« Reply #2 on: August 14, 2021, 12:24:PM »
WAS THERE A FLAKE OF BLOOD? PART2
[/size]


The two key factors to the silencer evidence were the paint and the blood flake. The paint was an essential key to proving the silencer was used during the incident and not just any old silencer lying around or one from any source, used purely to create the framing. The paint could have been (a) genuine or (b) applied after the event by the police and or the family to facilitate the frame or to replace paint that had been removed in earlier tests. I wish to consider the flake based on its physical characteristics rather than its serological composition.

It is clear to me, that the family would have known that at least one silencer was missing within the first few days.

1 Anthony Pargeter would have known if his was not present if he kept it there. He would also be likely to know that the family had a silencer that may also be missing, since he claims to have indulged in shooting/target practice with Jeremy the previous weekend

2 It is likely that the police would have told them what they had taken, either when questioned or at the beginning of the investigation to stop them hunting for missing items.

3 Of course even if they were not told officially any officer could have notified them if they wished to add further ammunition to the family’s suspicions and protestations.

From the chronology of the case it is unlikely that Taff Jones would have entertained any attempts to frame Jeremy. His task seems to have been to keep the family at bay while he was in charge and any item presented to the police by the family would have been treated with the utmost suspicion and seen as yet another example of their mendacity. Their attempts to sway Taff would have increased overtime but it is I think unlikely but not impossible that by the 10/08/85 they had reached the point of working out how to frame him.

Irrespective of this had he known or suspected that the TFG had used a silencer in any cover-up of what actually happened, he would have ensured that any silencer was fully inspected both internally and externally before it was returned to the family or sent to the lab. Was this the reason that Ron Cook dismantled a silencer? I have seen pictures and claims that he performed just such a function at the end of August. (21/08/85)

Did Taff deliberately destroy the evidential value of the silencer?

Answer to come in part 3

Thus it can be argued that whilst the silencer may have been seen and discussed by some as a method of incrimination no attempt to use it would have been made prior to the change of command to Ainsley. As I have suggested in my narrative Taff had plenty of evidence that JB was innocent. He even took the ‘Hitman story’ with some seriousness, pursuing it to a dead end. He could, not until he had done this, rule out the possibility that the so called hitman/perpetrator had left June for dead.


Sources for the flake

The following are all potential sources for the flake.

1 Blood from Robert Boutflour

2 Blood from autopsy

3 Blood from bullet bag (Taylor notes blood that could have contained a flake. Together with PV20). The human tissue could have dried to a flake. We do not know the location from which the tissue emanated but tissue types may have different characteristics when dried.

4 Blood from clothing in bucket

5 David Boutflour’s ‘blob’

I would suggest that 4 and 5 can be ruled out since they would need to be kept in a suitable container at the correct temperature in the early stages of the investigation in order for the serological integrity of the sample to be maintained so as to provide the full spectrum analysis which was achieved later in the investigation.

As far as 3 above is concerned it might be a possible candidate, dependent on storage and container suitability, for this to yield a viable specimen since there would be less chance of factors such as oxidisation to degrade it.

Would the silencer be a good vehicle to get the flake to the laboratory?


The flake was described as being loose but trapped between the baffles. For this to be true it would mean that it could not move beyond the baffles between which it was said to have been located but nevertheless was mobile within the space in which it was contained.

At the bottom of this rant is shown a dried blood flake. It is clear that it is starting to disintegrate. I would argue that given this any flake would be denuded perhaps to a fine dust over time as it continued to dry and came into contact with the hard surfaces of the silencer and baffle plates every time the silencer was handled or manipulated. I would also suggest that its thickness could only be measured in microns.

I would therefore further argue that the silencer was not a suitable means of transportation. Additionally, if it was used in any of the test firings it would be likely that further damage was inflicted on the flake.

Treatment at the Laboratory


I have argued that Malcolm Fletcher swapped PV20 and that this shows he could be corrupt. If I am correct it would mean that he could be given a blood sample from any of the viable sources above by anyone intent on framing Jeremy. It is possible he created a viable flake (PV20 Tissue?) that never saw the inside of the silencer. It would not be necessary to enter the sample as an exhibit since it was said to be inside an existing exhibit. He could be given a sample and then taken it into work in say his pocket or briefcase. The Autopsy sample was at the lab in any case and the bullet bag was presented to him as part of his normal duties. I believe he was given the bag on or around the day the flake was said to be found. (12/09/85)

There is also one other possibility and it is that there never was a flake. Given all the scientific issues and aside from any manipulation of silencer related documentation it is possible that John Hayward was pressurised into producing test results of experiments that were never conducted.

An example might be the wealth of so called circumstantial evidence including Julie’s statements and the fact that a silencer had been dismantled by Cook. He could have been presented with this information and also told of dust that had been found but unfortunately destroyed by Cook. Since the entire flake was apparently used in his test, no further tests could be conducted, therefore he could not be found out or challenged as long as the test(s) was/were deemed appropriate and scientifically sound even though the method he used could be challenged. (I believe it was)

Of course he could have been invited to join the local Masonic Lodge if he was not already a member. He may have had skeletons in his cupboard which could be used to pressurise him. Their tentacles have reach because their power is based on knowledge and contacts. I’m sure they would be pleased to have a blood expert as a member and as a result he would gain access to favours, as many are said to, as a member of ‘The Craft’.

If there was never a flake or if it was created outside the SM, this may be one plausible explanation as to why Sheila’s DNA was not found during subsequent tests of the silencer.

Finally, I do not believe that the relatives played no part in the framing. If I’m correct and the family were blackmailing or pressurising the police, they would not wish to act alone and expose themselves further. They would certainly want to ensure that the family were culpable in some way, even if it was just lying about the date of the silencer discovery.

If Jeremy was acquitted and/or their deception was ever exposed the family would then have two sticks with which to ‘beat up on the police’ and from a legal standpoint double jeopardy was still in place. Their exposure would likely be catastrophic for the entire Essex Constabulary. They needed to have partners to protect themselves.

« Last Edit: August 14, 2021, 12:26:PM by Bubo bubo »

Offline David1819

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 13705
Re: THE SILENCER SAGA
« Reply #3 on: August 14, 2021, 12:41:PM »
The relatives alerted the police to the blood and paint on the silencer and the scratches under the mantle shelf long before the lab even confirmed this was the case. Thus they have guilty knowledge and there are serious discrepancies in their statements and trial testimony regarding the silencer.

Moreover they alerted the police of this "find" the day after Jeremy asked them to buy back their farm land that Nevil payed for. Money they didn't have and would result in most their farm and livelihood being sold off.

IMO only the relatives (Ann Eaton in particular) had the means, motive and opportunity to contaminate it.

Offline Bubo bubo

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3331
Re: THE SILENCER SAGA
« Reply #4 on: August 14, 2021, 12:57:PM »
The relatives alerted the police to the blood and paint on the silencer and the scratches under the mantle shelf long before the lab even confirmed this was the case. Thus they have guilty knowledge and there are serious discrepancies in their statements and trial testimony regarding the silencer.

Moreover they alerted the police of this "find" the day after Jeremy asked them to buy back their farm land that Nevil payed for. Money they didn't have and would result in most their farm and livelihood being sold off.

IMO only the relatives (Ann Eaton in particular) had the means, motive and opportunity to contaminate it.

I do not disagree entirely with what you say. They may well have been the originators of the blood in the silencer ploy. However I believe that a lot of what they say about the blood (not the scratches) before Ainsley took charge is a manipulation of what actually happened about the visible blood. I believe it to be an embellishment of what actually happened, which was used for convenience because the dates suited. Taff would not have accepted their entreaties and they never saw the original silencer DB1. My position may become clearer when you see the rest of my thinking.

Offline David1819

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 13705
Re: THE SILENCER SAGA
« Reply #5 on: August 14, 2021, 01:02:PM »
I do not disagree entirely with what you say. They may well have been the originators of the blood in the silencer ploy. However I believe that a lot of what they say about the blood (not the scratches) before Ainsley took charge is a manipulation of what actually happened about the visible blood. I believe it to be an embellishment of what actually happened, which was used for convenience because the dates suited. Taff would not have accepted their entreaties and they never saw the original silencer DB1. My position may become clearer when you see the rest of my thinking.

DB/1 and DRB/1 are the same exhibit. DB/1 was changed to DRB/1 later because it was being confused with David Bird's exhibits.

Offline Bubo bubo

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3331
Re: THE SILENCER SAGA
« Reply #6 on: August 14, 2021, 01:10:PM »
I know this but DB or someone with those initials found the SM DB1 and the Fire Debris DB2 on the day. How do explain this?

Offline Adam

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 44120
Re: THE SILENCER SAGA
« Reply #7 on: August 14, 2021, 01:12:PM »
The advantages of Bamber using the silencer are not just that people in other rooms won't hear the rifle. But people in the same room are unlikely to hear it.

Daniel, Nicholas, Nevill & June shared rooms. Neither of the twins woke. Bamber was able to fire 5 bullets into June before Nevill started to wake.

There were no disasvantages for him.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2021, 01:13:PM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline David1819

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 13705
Re: THE SILENCER SAGA
« Reply #8 on: August 14, 2021, 01:19:PM »
I know this but DB or someone with those initials found the SM DB1 and the Fire Debris DB2 on the day. How do explain this?

Where are you getting this information from?

Offline Adam

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 44120
Re: THE SILENCER SAGA
« Reply #9 on: August 14, 2021, 01:20:PM »
Only Bamber knows whether he knew in advance the silencer would have to be taken off after the massacre. If not, it waa lucky he noticed on the night!

Only he knows whether he was already aware of back spatter. If not, he soon found out about it! 

If he was aware of both beforehand, he was confident the police would not check silencers in boxes which were not part of the crime scene. They didn't!
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Bubo bubo

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3331
Re: THE SILENCER SAGA
« Reply #10 on: August 14, 2021, 01:31:PM »
Where are you getting this information from?
Try looking at JH's specimen testing on the red forum. DB1 sound moderator was found in the kitchen if you track the exhibits listed. Did DB? go to the gun cupboard first and then return to the kitchen to obtain the other items associated with the AGA. Seems a bit strange. Don't forget he was relying on the police information as to where items were found.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2021, 01:34:PM by Bubo bubo »

Offline lookout

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 48661
Re: THE SILENCER SAGA
« Reply #11 on: August 14, 2021, 02:09:PM »
Only Bamber knows whether he knew in advance the silencer would have to be taken off after the massacre. If not, it waa lucky he noticed on the night!

Only he knows whether he was already aware of back spatter. If not, he soon found out about it! 

If he was aware of both beforehand, he was confident the police would not check silencers in boxes which were not part of the crime scene. They didn't!





What "Bamber " didn't know were the last spoken words of his father when he rang 999 and told police that his daughter was threatening the family !! Did you know that ?

Offline Bubo bubo

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3331
Re: THE SILENCER SAGA
« Reply #12 on: August 14, 2021, 02:39:PM »
REASONS TO RENDER THE SM UNVIABLE PART 3
[/size]

Police view

In the first instance the police were interested in finger prints and blood stains not back spatter. They would need to know who had handled it and whether the blood was human in origin. It was sent to laboratory 13/08/85. Cook used dusting and fuming techniques to test for prints and GH confirmed human origin for the blood. If there were any internal enquiries as to how the episode unfolded and whether the TFG had ‘messed up’ prints might be useful.

The family view

They would be all over the developing case. It is clear they were trying everything to get the police to check Jeremy out using SJ as a go between. When they knew a silencer was involved they would be thinking blood as more important than prints and could use their firearms knowledge to pressure the police and formulate the frame. They would ponder all the reasons for its removal and what was the reason/significance.

As previously indicated Taff new Jeremy was innocent. He had Nevill’s call. A secured premises and a suicide note. He also knew June was shot by the TFG. However, he could not rule out in the early stages, that Jeremy (or maybe a hitman) had left in haste leaving June alive thinking her dead.

I disagree with MT about the body count and ‘found in kitchen’ conundrum. You know my explanation. However, I agree with almost all his writings and ideas on the silencer.

Where we part company is in relation to SJ replacing the silencer on the evening of 09/08/85. I considered this myself. Given SJ’s animosity towards Jeremy and his conversation with TJ and PV on the 08/08/85 it is possible that they realised that they may have had to frame Jeremy to extricate themselves. It could be a backstop to fall back on at some time in the future if things got tricky.
However, I dismiss this because it would require knowledge SJ did not have and it was generally agreed at that time that it was 4 murders and a suicide. The case had only just begun and routine issues had to be dealt with, interviews, statements, documenting exhibits, etc. Of course if both silencers were collected on the day and by visual inspection alone one was deemed ‘clean’ and therefore could be eliminated. They could have returned the ‘clean’ one on that date or any time before they handed over the keys.

THE REASONS

Reason 1

Taff thought that it might reveal unwanted evidence with regard to the cover up.

Reason 2


As things progressed it is clear the family’s protestations were not going away. PE was a gun dealer/shooter. They could have asked that they open it up and check for back spatter. He is most likely as well as DB to know of this when cleaning their own SM’s perhaps after despatching a wounded animal with a contact shot. In any case it is highly likely that he acquired this information from magazines and conversations. TJ may have also been worried that they may have conspired with others to tamper with the SM.

Reason 3

There was a chance that the SM was accidently contaminated given the amount of blood across the crime scene. The handling of the case had been ‘slipshod’ and his early diagnosis was being called into question. Knowing Jeremy innocent, he would not wish him to be found guilty because of the way things were handled during the chaos and the general course of the investigation.

Reason 4


He had agreed to the early introduction of the backstop and was keen to remove it once he had satisfied himself of innocence and successfully countered the Family’s entreaties. (Part of a flexible strategy or am I crediting him with Poirot type powers)
.
In such circumstances TJ may have asked Cook to dismantle it (21/08/85) before sending it to the lab. (30/08/85)

So it seems that the finger printing may have been part of normal activity but the dismantling might have been for a purpose and possibly the fuming as well.

Of significance is the fuming operation. Cook had to confirm in writing to Ainsley that it did not affect the integrity of the silencer (fuming can cause to damage to items like blood and render exhibits unusable). He says he fumed on 13/09/05 the day after the flake was found. MT says that no record can be found of the fuming test at the laboratory. Cook was an experienced finger print operative (12years) and Roch has shown that the fingerprint officers can perform this themselves. The Essex force had a fingerprint section with a number of qualified operatives who may have been capable to perform this function though these officers probably performed other duties as well.

I leave you to make up your own minds on this issue. Was it normal activity or a deliberate attempt to render the SM useless as an exhibit.

You can also make up your own minds as to whether Hayward was tricked or complicit. His tests started on the day the flake was found and finished on the 19/09/85.
 
In part 4 I will complete the jigsaw with the end of my proposal on the silencer.

Please feel free to question my assertions. The final part returns us to old territory and our earlier communications on ‘time lines’ dates are crucial.





« Last Edit: August 14, 2021, 02:42:PM by Bubo bubo »

Offline David1819

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 13705
Re: THE SILENCER SAGA
« Reply #13 on: August 14, 2021, 03:18:PM »
Try looking at JH's specimen testing on the red forum. DB1 sound moderator was found in the kitchen if you track the exhibits listed. Did DB? go to the gun cupboard first and then return to the kitchen to obtain the other items associated with the AGA. Seems a bit strange. Don't forget he was relying on the police information as to where items were found.

I don't have an account on that forum, so I cannot see the document. Can you post it here?

Offline Steve_uk

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 20872
Re: THE SILENCER SAGA
« Reply #14 on: August 14, 2021, 03:20:PM »