Did June make it to the phone

[Bubo bubo]

What evidence is there to establish this "fact"?

Please read my posts on the staging of the main bedroom scene. You have even stated that you do not read all posts Even PV who you support said JB would have to be a 'nutter' to stage it like that. Since you believe JB innocent you are arguing against yourself.

I would also be grateful if you would refrain from childish posts in relation to my intelligence and cognitive abilities. Lets keep things civil. Any further such posts will result in a formal complaint. Do not insult other forum members. Such language shows your lack of respect and weakens your arguments.

[David1819]

Please read my posts on the staging of the main bedroom scene. You have even stated that you do not read all posts Even PV who you support said JB would have to be a 'nutter' to stage it like that. Since you believe JB innocent you are arguing against yourself.

I would also be grateful if you would refrain from childish posts in relation to my intelligence and cognitive abilities. Lets keep things civil. Any further such posts will result in a formal complaint. Do not insult other forum members. Such language shows your lack of respect and weakens your arguments.

Skimming through your posts, I cannot see any documented evidence attached to them. They consist mostly of wild speculation and conjecture.

Do you believe the police got hold of the rifle found on Sheila, fired several bullets into Junes pillow before pouring her blood over her side of the bed? Because that is essentially what had to have taken place for your argument to be the factual one.

[Bubo bubo]

Skimming through your posts, I cannot see any documented evidence attached to them. They consist mostly of wild speculation and conjecture.

Do you believe the police got hold of the rifle found on Sheila, fired several bullets into Junes pillow before pouring her blood over her side of the bed? Because that is essentially what had to have taken place for your argument to be the factual one.

Do not skim read you will miss the point. I am sorry to say that you are beginning to behave like Adam. Creating argument for arguments sake.

My hypothesis is that the police shot June by accident. In desperation they staged much of the crime scene we see still hoping to blame it all on Sheila. Unfortunately they reckoned without the  Boutflour Family. As a result of amongst other things police misinformation and their own investigations they 'twigged' what had gone wrong. The blood on the stairs is but one example. As a result of this they were able to manipulate and or work with some police officers.

If this happened they had lied to the inquest covering up their mistake and the whole EP force would be in deep trouble. The families silence and cooperation ensured JB was framed and the family gained the Bamber estate. The police had removed the threat of exposure since it was a Faustian pact. Both sides win or both sides loose.

You may disagree but given the history of this case down the years and the way it has been handled by the Justice System such an hypothesis is not beyond the realms of possibility.

[Bubo bubo]

Skimming through your posts, I cannot see any documented evidence attached to them. They consist mostly of wild speculation and conjecture.

Do you believe the police got hold of the rifle found on Sheila, fired several bullets into Junes pillow before pouring her blood over her side of the bed? Because that is essentially what had to have taken place for your argument to be the factual one.

By the way you have changed the subject. Who summoned the ambulances?

[Bubo bubo]

Skimming through your posts, I cannot see any documented evidence attached to them. They consist mostly of wild speculation and conjecture.

Do you believe the police got hold of the rifle found on Sheila, fired several bullets into Junes pillow before pouring her blood over her side of the bed? Because that is essentially what had to have taken place for your argument to be the factual one.

My argument is more detailed and you know it. I have set out reasoned arguments and detailed examination of the crime scene photos. Skim reading does not work. I have not stated what you deliberately misquote. Please engage by questioning the detail I present. If you choose to disagree fine by me but do not denigrate my arguments by factual misrepresentation.

[Adam]

How did the police shoot June by accident?  She had already been shot 7 times by the murder weapon.

[David1819]

By the way you have changed the subject. Who summoned the ambulances?

The police I assume.

[David1819]

Do not skim read you will miss the point. I am sorry to say that you are beginning to behave like Adam. Creating argument for arguments sake.

My hypothesis is that the police shot June by accident. In desperation they staged much of the crime scene we see still hoping to blame it all on Sheila. Unfortunately they reckoned without the  Boutflour Family. As a result of amongst other things police misinformation and their own investigations they 'twigged' what had gone wrong. The blood on the stairs is but one example. As a result of this they were able to manipulate and or work with some police officers.

If this happened they had lied to the inquest covering up their mistake and the whole EP force would be in deep trouble. The families silence and cooperation ensured JB was framed and the family gained the Bamber estate. The police had removed the threat of exposure since it was a Faustian pact. Both sides win or both sides loose.

You may disagree but given the history of this case down the years and the way it has been handled by the Justice System such an hypothesis is not beyond the realms of possibility.

You think the police shot June seven times by accident?

[David1819]

My argument is more detailed and you know it. I have set out reasoned arguments and detailed examination of the crime scene photos. Skim reading does not work. I have not stated what you deliberately misquote. Please engage by questioning the detail I present. If you choose to disagree fine by me but do not denigrate my arguments by factual misrepresentation.

Then explain how the bullets and blood ended up on Junes side of the bed.

[Bubo bubo]

You think the police shot June seven times by accident?

You clearly have not studied my narrative in detail. They only shot her once by accident. I am not a TV Evangelist or a Snake Oil Salesman. I am not asking you believe me. I have through studying the case come up with my version of the truth as MT says. It would be strange if you only had to read the limited information we have available to reveal the real truth. Some element of speculation is needed to try to find why this case has remained an enigma for the past 36 years. The powers that be have worked hard using all the powers available to them (PII etc.) to cover up what happened. People are entitled to believe what they wish and can come to their own conclusions. I have merely set out my ideas and forum readers can make up their own minds whether I am right. I do not care but I resent misrepresentation borne out of laziness.

You deal in short inaccurate statements rather than detailed forensic examination. Mostly you use tit for tat arguments where as I prefer a more academic examination of the case based on detailed thought processes and reasoning. It is an hypothesis which I offer on a take it or leave it basis. I do believe that my take explains much of what has happened in this case.

I have more stuff to put out and will do so as I feel so inclined.

[Bubo bubo]

The police I assume.

Well here we have speculation on your part. It could indeed be the police.

Here is an argument.

If the police called the ambulances it would show them in a good light, making sensible preparations, so no reason to withhold this information but it does not appear on any of the logs.

On the other hand if June called the ambulances it would mean JB was innocent regardless of whether she was killed later by Sheila or the police.

[lookout]

Stranger things have happened. In some domestic incidents the perpetrator can be the person who you'd least expect. Which is why blame invariably goes to those who " have form " to carry out murders, i.e. those who are already unstable as Sheila was and/or Jeremy who'd loved the high-life and enjoyed all things involving having plenty of money. 

[Adam]

Why would the raid team shoot June? She was no threat, dead and laying on the bedroom floor.

The police or raid team would have called an ambulance. Either while at WHF or someone from their office base.

There are no reports of any June's bullets not being from the murder weapon.

[David1819]

Why would the raid team shoot June? She was no threat, dead and laying on the bedroom floor.

The police or raid team would have called an ambulance. Either while at WHF or someone from their office base.

There are no reports of any June's bullets not being from the murder weapon.

The forensic evidence is rather conclusive on this issue.

Bubo's scenario requires to June to be alive while the police were outside for hours and June never tries to escape or call out for help. Then the police elaborately restage the scene after accidently shooting her seven times. Its not even worth debating IMO.

[Adam]

The forensic evidence is rather conclusive on this issue.

Bubo's scenario requires to June to be alive while the police were outside for hours and June never tries to escape or call out for help. Then the police elaborately restage the scene after accidently shooting her seven times. Its not even worth debating IMO.

Bubo is saying the police shot June once. Which would still mean June was dead when the police entered WHF.  From the other 6 shots.

Can't see both June & Sheila still being alive when the police arrived at WHF. Sheila then letting June call for an ambulance before shooting her 6 times & then shooting herself twice.