Author Topic: The Official Jeremy Bamber and White House Farm Podcast Series - Season 1  (Read 126415 times)

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Offline David1819

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Re: The Official Jeremy Bamber and White House Farm Podcast Series
« Reply #300 on: April 09, 2021, 10:13:PM »
I have checked Vanezis' trial testimony and it does not mention anywhere how many shots June received while in bed, there is no mention of this at all.

The trajectories are mentioned in detail. They all entered her body at a downward angle thus the shooter was standing above the target. Combine this with the fact there was blood and bullets holes on Junes side of the bed. What more proof do you need?
« Last Edit: April 09, 2021, 10:14:PM by David1819 »

Offline David1819

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Re: The Official Jeremy Bamber and White House Farm Podcast Series
« Reply #301 on: April 09, 2021, 10:32:PM »
I think the problem for David is that while he believes in JB's innocence, he is very resistant towards the notion that a pathologist could be induced or coerced in to withholding details. Primary in this, is the few handwritten notes we have that are allegedly PV's original PM notes. For David and others, because such marks are not mentioned, this must mean that they can not have existed in the form of wounds, as the notes related to immediately after the killings, when JB was not an official suspect.

On the contrary. Vanezis original handwritten notes states that Sheila's palms were covered in blood. Yet this is absent from his later statements, and during Jeremy's trial he told the Jury that Sheila's palms were clean.

That is a discrepancy no doubt. Why Vanezis contradicted himself I do not know. But the fact its written in his original notes and deviates from his later claims is proof that his notes have not been edited and censored by Ainsley or UFOs etc etc.

« Last Edit: April 09, 2021, 10:47:PM by David1819 »

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Re: The Official Jeremy Bamber and White House Farm Podcast Series
« Reply #302 on: April 09, 2021, 11:19:PM »
On the contrary. Vanezis original handwritten notes states that Sheila's palms were covered in blood. Yet this is absent from his later statements, and during Jeremy's trial he told the Jury that Sheila's palms were clean.

That is a discrepancy no doubt. Why Vanezis contradicted himself I do not know. But the fact its written in his original notes and deviates from his later claims is proof that his notes have not been edited and censored by Ainsley or UFOs etc etc.

How did you know about the UFOs?  I thought me, Mike and Adam had kept that under wraps for the CCRC.

Anyway, one for the appeal file.  Thanks David.

Offline Roch

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Re: The Official Jeremy Bamber and White House Farm Podcast Series
« Reply #303 on: April 09, 2021, 11:40:PM »
On the contrary. Vanezis original handwritten notes states that Sheila's palms were covered in blood. Yet this is absent from his later statements, and during Jeremy's trial he told the Jury that Sheila's palms were clean.

That is a discrepancy no doubt. Why Vanezis contradicted himself I do not know. But the fact its written in his original notes and deviates from his later claims is proof that his notes have not been edited and censored by Ainsley or UFOs etc etc.

Please go to the forum crime scene pictures of June. Look at her chin. Please show me were Vanezis mentions June's chin, either in his notes, statements or trial testimony. Imo, what is being presented as Vanezis handwritten notes, are not complete. 

Offline Roch

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Re: The Official Jeremy Bamber and White House Farm Podcast Series
« Reply #304 on: April 09, 2021, 11:49:PM »
The trajectories are mentioned in detail. They all entered her body at a downward angle thus the shooter was standing above the target. Combine this with the fact there was blood and bullets holes on Junes side of the bed. What more proof do you need?

Newby & co sound like they have a lot of info regarding bullets, casings, wounds, bodies etc. Even if we dismiss the marks on June's shins as smears (debatable imo), are you suggesting that the soft furnishings of the bed placed fine cuts on her hand?
« Last Edit: April 09, 2021, 11:49:PM by Roch »

Offline Bill Robertson

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Re: The Official Jeremy Bamber and White House Farm Podcast Series
« Reply #305 on: April 10, 2021, 05:10:AM »
The trajectories are mentioned in detail. They all entered her body at a downward angle thus the shooter was standing above the target. Combine this with the fact there was blood and bullets holes on Junes side of the bed. What more proof do you need?
Tedious in extremis to have to keep returning to this topic, but I wonder if you can accept that the downward angle of shots simply means that Sheila was standing at an elevated position in relation to June. This does not mean that all of the shots to June occurred while she was in bed.

My understanding is that two bullets were discovered in pillows and I assume these were the first shots, passing through June's right shoulder area. The rest of her injuries were sustained while she was out of bed.

Offline Adam

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Re: The Official Jeremy Bamber and White House Farm Podcast Series
« Reply #306 on: April 10, 2021, 11:30:AM »
Tedious in extremis to have to keep returning to this topic, but I wonder if you can accept that the downward angle of shots simply means that Sheila was standing at an elevated position in relation to June. This does not mean that all of the shots to June occurred while she was in bed.

My understanding is that two bullets were discovered in pillows and I assume these were the first shots, passing through June's right shoulder area. The rest of her injuries were sustained while she was out of bed.

Jeremy shot June 5 times in bed. Then two more times when he returned upstairs.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline David1819

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Re: The Official Jeremy Bamber and White House Farm Podcast Series
« Reply #307 on: April 10, 2021, 12:59:PM »
It seems Roch and Bill are alone here in believing this (yet another) conspiracy theory.

But what I would like to know is who is leading Bill on into thinking this has been substantiated "by forensic experts".
« Last Edit: April 10, 2021, 01:00:PM by David1819 »

Offline Roch

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Re: The Official Jeremy Bamber and White House Farm Podcast Series
« Reply #308 on: April 10, 2021, 01:02:PM »
It seems Roch and Bill are alone here in believing this (yet another) conspiracy theory.

But what I would like to know is who is leading Bill on into thinking this has been substantiated "by forensic experts".

What exactly are you labelling a 'conspiracy theory'?

Offline David1819

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Re: The Official Jeremy Bamber and White House Farm Podcast Series
« Reply #309 on: April 10, 2021, 01:10:PM »
What exactly are you labelling a 'conspiracy theory'?

The police and pathologists omitting and altering evidence en masse and on a significant scale to cover up what you perceive as cuts and defence wounds on June and Sheila.

 🛸 👽 🐑 👽 🛸
« Last Edit: April 10, 2021, 01:11:PM by David1819 »

Offline Roch

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Re: The Official Jeremy Bamber and White House Farm Podcast Series
« Reply #310 on: April 10, 2021, 01:39:PM »
The police and pathologists omitting and altering evidence en masse and on a significant scale to cover up what you perceive as cuts and defence wounds on June and Sheila.

 🛸 👽 🐑 👽 🛸

How else would they falsely convict JB? You do understand, that your own stance is that Sheila convicted the massacre. How did manage she do it while remaining completely unscathed?  The simple answer is, she didn't. Which poses a huge problem if you want or need to convict JB.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2021, 01:40:PM by Roch »

Offline David1819

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Re: The Official Jeremy Bamber and White House Farm Podcast Series
« Reply #311 on: April 10, 2021, 02:20:PM »
The following experts (four pathologists and one blood pattern expert)

Bernard Knight
Herbert Leon MacDonnell
Marco Meloni
Professor Cavalli
Dr David Fowler

Have all examined and reviewed the photos of Sheila on behalf of JBs defence. I guess Ainsley and dark extraterrestrial forces made them be silent over the alleged cuts and wounds also.

🛸👽 🐑 👽 🛸
« Last Edit: April 10, 2021, 02:21:PM by David1819 »

Offline Roch

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Re: The Official Jeremy Bamber and White House Farm Podcast Series
« Reply #312 on: April 10, 2021, 02:54:PM »
The following experts (four pathologists and one blood pattern expert)

Bernard Knight
Herbert Leon MacDonnell
Marco Meloni
Professor Cavalli
Dr David Fowler

Have all examined and reviewed the photos of Sheila on behalf of JBs defence. I guess Ainsley and dark extraterrestrial forces made them be silent over the alleged cuts and wounds also.

🛸👽 🐑 👽 🛸

Would depend upon the quality and selection of crime scene photographs. It's only since the Di-Stefano era that a lot of images have become available. It's only since the McKay era (or afterwards?) since students protested outside the CCRC and EP handed over more negatives to the CCRC which were then released to the defence for lab blow up. The defence have had to fight all the way for negatives. Have you factored that in, in your reasoning? ::)
« Last Edit: April 10, 2021, 02:55:PM by Roch »

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Re: The Official Jeremy Bamber and White House Farm Podcast Series
« Reply #313 on: April 10, 2021, 03:02:PM »
How else would they falsely convict JB? You do understand, that your own stance is that Sheila convicted the massacre. How did manage she do it while remaining completely unscathed?  The simple answer is, she didn't. Which poses a huge problem if you want or need to convict JB.

Falsely convict and wrongly convict are not the same things.  I insist on the distinction.  Even if Jeremy is innocent, you would need to meet a pretty overwhelming evidential bar to persuade me that any police officer or pathologist intentionally framed an innocent man.  It's much more likely - and realistic - to conclude that they simply made a mistake and pursued Jeremy under the steam of their own self-righteous enthusiasm, blinding themselves to contrary facts and evidence.  It's a very common phenomenon - we see it on this Forum every day.  It's just human nature and represents a flaw in any human system.  Yes, as part of such a catastrophe, influential individuals may tell lies and untruths, but again I emphasise that this is not the same as intentionally framing somebody who is innocent. 

The relatives are a different matter, and I think some of the evidence is consistent with the silencer having been planted, but I've set out my criteria: it would need to be demonstrated that 'vital interests' were at stake for the family before I could believe it was anything more than a misconceived desire for justice that motivated them.

Somewhat against what I have just said, I will now offer a qualified defence of your position.  I agree with you that people like David and Adam underestimate the potential for a group culture that leads to malfeasance.  The culture could be found in a tight-knit and cohesive group or distributed over several agencies and institutions.  In either case, there is the potential for systemised malfeasance or 'constructive malfeasance' - I am having to invent my own vocabulary here because it is a difficult phenomenon to describe and explain.  Probably you would need an organisational psychologist, systems analyst or management consultant, or somebody like that to explain it properly. 

What happens is that the people involved are not necessarily part of an agenda, but they tell small or technical lies or untruths that in and of themselves seems trivial yet contribute to an overarching narrative.  It could be that, as you explained in one of your previous posts, the narrative ('ethos') is set by a small group of influential people and this drives everything and frames the perceptions and interpretations of everybody in the case, even the defence, from that point onwards.

Even estimable pathologists could be influenced in this way, and this is where I come to a point of disagreement with you.

However, just as David and Adam underestimate the scope for group malfeasance, I think that you may over-state the case for it.  It is not necessary for the pathologist or forensic scientists to have been part of some scheme of corruption in order for Jeremy to be innocent.  A lot of forensic evidence is down to interpretation or involves applying a certain method that can turn out to be flawed because it was influenced by the 'ethos'/narrative of the investigative team. 

Furthermore, when I use the phrase 'systemised malfeasance', I have in mind a situation where people tell what they think are small or technical lies or untruths thinking that these are trivial in and of themselves without really appreciating that by doing so they are aligning the evidence with the overarching ethos/narrative.  In that scenario, the whole management of the case becomes like a factory or machine in which everybody is expected to produce results that meet a certain case goal so as to fulfil the original ethos/narrative set by the core group, but the individuals involved - even the core group - may not comprehend that what they are doing is wrong.

Essentially, the term I may be looking for is 'group think'.  Detectives, scientists, lawyers, judges, etc., can lose their objectivity and detachment under strong psychological, social, economic and professional influences.

Offline David1819

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Re: The Official Jeremy Bamber and White House Farm Podcast Series
« Reply #314 on: April 10, 2021, 04:04:PM »
How else would they falsely convict JB?

They didn't. It was his relatives and Julie Mudford.

You do understand, that your own stance is that Sheila convicted the massacre. How did manage she do it while remaining completely unscathed?  The simple answer is, she didn't.

The simple answer is, if you shoot dead unarmed defenceless people then you can't be scathed. How do you think Anders Brevik massacred 69 people on that island and remained completely unscathed?  ::)