How Did Jeremy Move To And From The Farmhouse? Some Thoughts & Problems...

[guest29835]

Yes, I understand that but are you implying that his clothes would be incriminating because they would be blood stained?

Yes, I think he would have back spatter on him - at the very least.  He would have hairs from Nevill and Sheila on him, probably.  I think DNA was in its infancy at that time and not used routinely in police investigations, so he probably wouldn't think about that specifically (though he might have done, as it may have been discussed in TV programmes, etc.), but it's just normal intuition that he would want to either dispose of or clean whatever clothing he was in and change as quickly as possible.  I also think he would give some consideration to what would happen if he is caught outside Bourtree Cottage and he would not want to be seen carrying a rucksack or bag - and he certainly wouldn't want to be seen with a bike (how the hell would he explain that?).

[guest29835]

Yes, I think he would have back spatter on him - at the very least.  He would have hairs from Nevill and Sheila on him, probably.  I think DNA was in its infancy at that time and not used routinely in police investigations, so he probably wouldn't think about that specifically (though he might have done, as it may have been discussed in TV programmes, etc.), but it's just normal intuition that he would want to either dispose of or clean whatever clothing he was in and change as quickly as possible.  I also think he would give some consideration to what would happen if he is caught outside Bourtree Cottage and he would not want to be seen carrying a rucksack or bag - and he certainly wouldn't want to be seen with a bike (how the hell would he explain that?).

Of course, Jeremy has carried this out thinking that it would be easy and he could kill them all in their beds, maybe in their sleep, so possibly he doesn't bring a change of clothes with him and he has to improvise and maybe take some of Nevill's, and a bag from the farmhouse to carry them in. 

He must need a change of clothes.  Otherwise, how come he exits without leaving a trace?  How does he manage to get the silencer into the gun cupboard without leaving any blood marks in the den and the cupboard itself?  How come he doesn't leave blood prints on the doors and walls and stair banisters?  He has obviously washed himself, maybe showered there, and changed, before exiting through the window.

[Caroline]

Yes, I think he would have back spatter on him - at the very least.  He would have hairs from Nevill and Sheila on him, probably.  I think DNA was in its infancy at that time and not used routinely in police investigations, so he probably wouldn't think about that specifically (though he might have done, as it may have been discussed in TV programmes, etc.), but it's just normal intuition that he would want to either dispose of or clean whatever clothing he was in and change as quickly as possible.  I also think he would give some consideration to what would happen if he is caught outside Bourtree Cottage and he would not want to be seen carrying a rucksack or bag - and he certainly wouldn't want to be seen with a bike (how the hell would he explain that?).

I agree, there would be evidence of the victims on him (something not found on Sheila)  but he had time to clean up. I don't know the layout of the village but at that time of the morning (though we don't know the exact time), he was unlikely to bump into anyone - although I am sure he took precautions not to. The bike is a non starter for me, to use it he would pretty much have to be out in the open. It may have been something he considered but it would have been a liability and if caught on it by anyone - the game's up.

[Adam]

I agree, there would be evidence of the victims on him (something not found on Sheila)  but he had time to clean up. I don't know the layout of the village but at that time of the morning (though we don't know the exact time), he was unlikely to bump into anyone - although I am sure he took precautions not to. The bike is a non starter for me, to use it he would pretty much have to be out in the open. It may have been something he considered but it would have been a liability and if caught on it by anyone - the game's up.

Why out in the open. There were three routes which did not go anywhere near main roads or houses?

[Adam]

There would not much blood on Bamber.

He shot his victims while at the end of a long rifle.

The evidence shows his fight with Nevill was mainly hitting him with the rifle although they did wrestle for the rifle.

[Caroline]

Why out in the open. There were three routes which did not go anywhere near main roads or houses?

That's only part of the journey, at some point he would have been out in the open. It just took one person to spot him.

[Caroline]

There would not much blood on Bamber.

He shot his victims while at the end of a long rifle.

The evidence shows his fight with Nevill was mainly hitting him with the rifle although they did wrestle for the rifle.

Nevill was battered with it, after battering him with it, the blood from the stock would have rubbed off on his clothes. Only smears were left of the rifle the blood had to rub off on something.

[Jane]

Nevill was battered with it, after battering him with it, the blood from the stock would have rubbed off on his clothes. Only smears were left of the rifle the blood had to rub off on something.

Back to the wetsuit theory? Stand in the shower till the water runs clear. Place it in the wardrobe in the bedroom he'd used at WHF. Wasn't that bedroom door discovered to be locked? How many days did it take to unlock that door? If they even bothered to open his wardrobe, why would a wetsuit have rung alarm bells any more than a shooting jacket or a Barbour?

[Adam]

Nevill was battered with it, after battering him with it, the blood from the stock would have rubbed off on his clothes. Only smears were left of the rifle the blood had to rub off on something.

Would it? No one knows if Nevill transferred blood onto Bamber.

Nevill's injuries from the fight with Bamber were black eyes, bruises on the forearms/torso and head lacerations. None are areas with high blood flow.

[Adam]

That's only part of the journey, at some point he would have been out in the open. It just took one person to spot him.

He will know the way. May mean cycling across a couple a couple of fields as well as footpaths.

Do you believe Julie lied in her WS?

Do you believe it was a coincidence that Bamber brought the bike over just before the massacre? So Julie could cycle to the train station when going home!

[Adam]

Yes, I think he would have back spatter on him - at the very least.  He would have hairs from Nevill and Sheila on him, probably.  I think DNA was in its infancy at that time and not used routinely in police investigations, so he probably wouldn't think about that specifically (though he might have done, as it may have been discussed in TV programmes, etc.), but it's just normal intuition that he would want to either dispose of or clean whatever clothing he was in and change as quickly as possible.  I also think he would give some consideration to what would happen if he is caught outside Bourtree Cottage and he would not want to be seen carrying a rucksack or bag - and he certainly wouldn't want to be seen with a bike (how the hell would he explain that?).

Back splatter? The rifle was hardly powerful enough to put back splatter into the silencer. 

Hair from Nevill & Sheila. Was there hair falling out during the massacre?

Agree he would have changed. In my view when arriving back at his cottage. He would have had time to put his clothes/wet suit in the washing machine & then put them away before heading back to WHF. Doubt he threw them away afterwards.

[guest7363]

Of course, Jeremy has carried this out thinking that it would be easy and he could kill them all in their beds, maybe in their sleep, so possibly he doesn't bring a change of clothes with him and he has to improvise and maybe take some of Nevill's, and a bag from the farmhouse to carry them in. 

He must need a change of clothes.  Otherwise, how come he exits without leaving a trace?  How does he manage to get the silencer into the gun cupboard without leaving any blood marks in the den and the cupboard itself?  How come he doesn't leave blood prints on the doors and walls and stair banisters?  He has obviously washed himself, maybe showered there, and changed, before exiting through the window.

His change of clothes could have been left the day before anywhere on a farm that size, would there have been wash area’s or water outside for him to clean up on a farm? He could exit the door at this stage and change, then come back in and then clean up what your suggesting, then exit by the window?

[Adam]

Doubt that Bamber brought over a change of clothes to WHF. Either beforehand or on the night.

He would not be expecting to be covered in blood after shooting one women, two 6 year olds & Nevill while in bed. Then fire one shot into a helpless Sheila.

If his clothes did have drops of blood on afterwards, no one is going to see him when cycling back.

[guest7363]

Doubt that Bamber brought over a change of clothes to WHF. Either beforehand or on the night.

He would not be expecting to be covered in blood after shooting one women, two 6 year olds & Nevill while in bed. Then fire one shot into a helpless Sheila.

Planning is of the essence Adam, leaving to chance is what gives you away.   He had a long time to plan this.

[Adam]

Planning is of the essence Adam, leaving to chance is what gives you away.   He had a long time to plan this.

Why change clothes at WHF?

He is 15 minutes away from his cottage. Where he can change & put the clothes he wore in the washing machine.