Author Topic: How Did Jeremy Move To And From The Farmhouse? Some Thoughts & Problems...  (Read 9155 times)

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guest29835

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Interestingly Julie did not mention Bamber having to go to bible classes with June. Probably because Julie would have been rolling around laughing.

This may have pushed him over the edge.

I can see it now, Jeremy and June stood there, mother and son, in unison, joyously singing good, bracing Christian hymns.  Onward Christian Soldiers.  How Deep The Father's Love.  The Lord's My Shepherd.  In Christ Alone. Perhaps after a few years, Jeremy would succeed to the church wardenship himself?  No doubt consideration would be given to theological training.  I can imagine Jeremy as a student at the College of the Resurrection, perhaps entering the clergy while a beaming June looks on at his ordination.  What a marvellous vision!  Thank you, Adam.

Offline Adam

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I can see it now, Jeremy and June stood there, mother and son, in unison, joyously singing good, bracing Christian hymns.  Onward Christian Soldiers.  How Deep The Father's Love.  The Lord's My Shepherd.  In Christ Alone. Perhaps after a few years, Jeremy would succeed to the church wardenship himself?  No doubt consideration would be given to theological training.  I can imagine Jeremy as a student at the College of the Resurrection, perhaps entering the clergy while a beaming June looks on at his ordination.  What a marvellous vision!  Thank you, Adam.

Maybe Nevill and June felt Jeremy doing some singing, praying & bible studying with June would make him see the error of his ways after the caravan break in.

He might decide to do some unpaid work for the church every Sunday.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Jane

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Scenario 1:
Here we have a young woman with paranoid schizophrenia and a history of violence and threats of violence, who is estranged from her husband and works in dead-end jobs, dislikes her mentally-ill mother who adopted her and has disturbing psychotic delusions about her own twin sons.  She is disappointed by a meeting with her biological mother, who returns to Canada.  She is also a recreational drug user.  Her psychotropic dosage has been reduced drastically in the last month or two.  She is already in the house and has access to a rifle and a loaded magazine, with more ammunition nearby.  She argues with her father and she starts threatening to go upstairs with the rifle.  He cannot lay his hands on her and is also concerned to keep her downstairs and away from her mother and her own sons, so he tries to calm her down in the kitchen and also rings his son (her brother) while she is present.  When the son answers, she runs upstairs and starts shooting.  She kills her family, all at close range, including her sons, then turns the gun on herself.  She is duly found with the rifle on or by her body.  She is forensically clean, but it is believed she washed herself prior to suicide, as is fairly common.

Scenario 2:
Now we have a young man with no history of violence, who lives 2/3 miles away.  We say that he goes out in the middle of the night to the house, enters and leaves undetected and without leaving any blood traces.  He proceeds to kill his entire family, including two little boys in their beds, simply so he can have lots of money now and drink champagne and have meals at restaurants and go to St Tropez.  He may also buy a smallholding in Dorset - he hasn't decided yet, let's see what happens with probate.  He does this even though he already has a lot of money and a secure future with a large inheritance down the line.  He also tells his girlfriend what he is planning to do and then reveals to her what has happened after he does the deed, albeit obliquely in the form of a made-up story about a hitman - in effect, he is confessing to her.  She spills the beans to a friend, and this friend engages in horseplay with this mass murderer at her 21st. birthday party a few days later.  Like you do.  He'd planned it all out and even staged a few phone calls to put the police off the trail.  The police fall for it.  What can you do, eh?  Except for one detective, who drives a classic car and shares a passing resemblance to Inspector Morse. Anyway, our killer spends much of his inheritance before he receives it, splashing out like there's no tomorrow.  He also allows the relatives, whom he does not see eye-to-eye with, keys to the crime scene.  This, after the police had offered the keys to him, which would have allowed him to easily dispose of any further incriminating evidence missed by the police.  The relatives come forward with the evidence instead, which had been mysteriously overlooked by the police themselves.  These same relatives stand to gain if he is convicted and imprisoned.  He even dropped hints to one or two people of his murderous intentions beforehand, including a hostile uncle.

Honestly, which of these two scenarios is the more plausible? 

In my view, one of these scenarios is simple and straight-forward and makes sense, the other is far-fetched and quite incredible, and frankly sounds like the script for one of those B-movies that gets broadcast late at night on Channel 5, normally starring Shannon Tweed and that bloke whose name I always forget but he's always in films like that.


But for a few elements in each scenario that I disagree with, you outlined succinctly exactly why Jeremy thought he could get away with it.

You outline perfectly why it would look bad for Sheila, although the finer points about her meds wouldn't have been known.
 What I can't get to grips with is Nevill phoning Jeremy, hanging on -for God knows how long- and allowing her to leave the room, and giving her enough time to run along the hallway, up the stairs, fire accurately enough to kill the boys, leave their room, go into the master bedroom and shoot her mother, BEFORE he catches up with her. Surely, if she'd with him in the kitchen, she'd have shot him dead whilst he was on the phone, indeed, when he picked it up, rather than let him call for help.

You outline perfectly how Jeremy would have seen himself as being viewed through others' eyes ie, there weren't enough negatives, in his eyes, for anyone to suspect him. The weight of suspicion would definitely fall on Sheila..................until, or unless one looks beneath the surface.

guest7363

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But for a few elements in each scenario that I disagree with, you outlined succinctly exactly why Jeremy thought he could get away with it.

You outline perfectly why it would look bad for Sheila, although the finer points about her meds wouldn't have been known.
 What I can't get to grips with is Nevill phoning Jeremy, hanging on -for God knows how long- and allowing her to leave the room, and giving her enough time to run along the hallway, up the stairs, fire accurately enough to kill the boys, leave their room, go into the master bedroom and shoot her mother, BEFORE he catches up with her. Surely, if she'd with him in the kitchen, she'd have shot him dead whilst he was on the phone, indeed, when he picked it up, rather than let him call for help.

You outline perfectly how Jeremy would have seen himself as being viewed through others' eyes ie, there weren't enough negatives, in his eyes, for anyone to suspect him. The weight of suspicion would definitely fall on Sheila..................until, or unless one looks beneath the surface.
Am I right in saying that June had only bought the bike a couple of weeks before the killings Jane?  If so, why would she then loan it out to Jeremy for Julie’s use?  Doesn’t make sense to me, if he used the bike at AM in the morning, yes it’s risky, walking out is risky if you don’t want to be seen, but, on a cycle it’s not much different than walking, you can get out the way when you spot a car headlight, you can use footpaths just the same, you can lift it over styles.  Why would he bring a ladies cycle home for Julie and not tell her about it?

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=10043.0;attach=55471;image

Offline Jane

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Am I right in saying that June had only bought the bike a couple of weeks before the killings Jane?  If so, why would she then loan it out to Jeremy for Julie’s use?  Doesn’t make sense to me, if he used the bike at AM in the morning, yes it’s risky, walking out is risky if you don’t want to be seen, but, on a cycle it’s not much different than walking, you can get out the way when you spot a car headlight, you can use footpaths just the same, you can lift it over styles.  Why would he bring a ladies cycle home for Julie and not tell her about it?

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=10043.0;attach=55471;image


D'you know, I'd forgotten about the bike until QC mentioned it last night. I could actually have bought into Jeremy wanting to use it to improve his muscle tone for walking from Goldhanger to D'Arcy -except why would he need to if he had a bike?- but I'd entirely forgotten how short a time he'd acquired it prior to the murders. Certainly not enough time for it to do him any good as a form of excercise, but convenient for his to say he's 'borrowed' it for Julie who may, or not, have once commented that a bike would be handy.

Personally, I think it's stretching belief to have him walking.  I'm not saying it's not possible to do. I just don't think he would, although arguably, there'd have been places where he may have had to. As I said yesterday, we can't make it 100% failsafe on his behalf.

Offline Steve_uk

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But for a few elements in each scenario that I disagree with, you outlined succinctly exactly why Jeremy thought he could get away with it.

You outline perfectly why it would look bad for Sheila, although the finer points about her meds wouldn't have been known.
 What I can't get to grips with is Nevill phoning Jeremy, hanging on -for God knows how long- and allowing her to leave the room, and giving her enough time to run along the hallway, up the stairs, fire accurately enough to kill the boys, leave their room, go into the master bedroom and shoot her mother, BEFORE he catches up with her. Surely, if she'd with him in the kitchen, she'd have shot him dead whilst he was on the phone, indeed, when he picked it up, rather than let him call for help.

You outline perfectly how Jeremy would have seen himself as being viewed through others' eyes ie, there weren't enough negatives, in his eyes, for anyone to suspect him. The weight of suspicion would definitely fall on Sheila..................until, or unless one looks beneath the surface.
An excellent post Jane, which separates the consummate professional member from the newcomer amateur sleuth arriviste.

Offline Adam

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It is possible for Bamber to have either walked, jogged or cycled to/from WHF. Or done a combination of all three.

Julie said he planned to cycle. Bamber agrees the bike arrived at his cottage just before the massacre. The prosecution case was that he cycled.

Others believe he took June's bike to go on scouting missions.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Jane

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An excellent post Jane, which separates the consummate professional member from the newcomer amateur sleuth arriviste.


THANK-YOU so much, Steve.

guest29835

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An excellent post Jane, which separates the consummate professional member from the newcomer amateur sleuth arriviste.

Professional?  What at?  Bullshit?  Well, I suppose it takes one to know one.

guest29835

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It is possible for Bamber to have either walked, jogged or cycled to/from WHF. Or done a combination of all three.

Julie said he planned to cycle. Bamber agrees the bike arrived at his cottage just before the massacre. The prosecution case was that he cycled.

Others believe he took June's bike to go on scouting missions.

Thanks Adam.  Additionally, he could have gone by jet ski or used a paraglider.

Offline lookout

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Nobody's mentioned roller-skates !

guest29835

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Nobody's mentioned roller-skates !

Forgive me, I do sometimes overlook the obvious.  And what about a flying skateboard, like that character in Back To The Future (released in 1985)?

Offline Adam

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Thanks Adam.  Additionally, he could have gone by jet ski or used a paraglider.

He will need water for a jet ski.

A paraglider is possible. But no one reported seeing a paraglider at his cottage.

We both agree he either walked, jogged or cycled. Or a combination of all three. Ditto with any scouting work.

Jeremy supports Julie's WS, saying he brought the bike over just before the massacre.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2020, 02:33:PM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

guest29835

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He will need water for a jet ski.

A paraglider is possible. But no one reported seeing a paraglider at his cottage.

We both agree he either walked, jogged or cycled. Or a combination of all three. Ditto with any scouting work.

Jeremy supports Julie's WS, saying he brought the bike over just before theassacre.

Jet skis need water?  I wish you'd mentioned that before, Adam.  I'll have to go back and change the CCRC submission now.  Anyway, thanks Adam.

Offline David1819

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Jet skis need water?  I wish you'd mentioned that before, Adam.  I'll have to go back and change the CCRC submission now.  Anyway, thanks Adam.

He could have used a flying saucer. The aliens could have given Jeremy a lift in exchange for a farm sheep!