Suggested reasons the straight forward Bamber scenario does not work:

[Adam]

Bamber didn't catch & physically attack Nevill on the stairs:

Why would he? The stairs were steep and narrow.

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Sheila may have woken :

Very doubtful she did. But unable to change things if she did.

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Sheila may have fought back:

Again very doubtful. But still easily controllable for Bamber.

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Nevill did not dial 999:

No time to. Why would he? He had been shot 4 times.

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Nevill's blood was not by the gun cupboard (no source):

Very optimistic to expect Nevill to drip his blood onto Bamber & then Bamber to transfer it to the gun cupboard. As stated, no source.

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Crispy may have barked:

Bamber would know in advance whether he is likely to. And whether it would wake anyone.

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Someone may have seen Bamber cycle to WHF:

A 1% chance here. Certainly good enough odds for Bamber to take.


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Nevill's blood was not on the stairs (no source):

Why would it be? As stated no source.

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Nevill did not head for the guns in the wash room (no source any were there):

As stated, no source.

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Bamber had no visible injuries:

Two women & two 6 year olds would not inflict injuries. Nevill was shot 4 times before going into defence mode.

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There was no blood on Nevill's side of the bed:

No reason there should be . Thread recently created. Which was not disputed.

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[guest7363]

Seems the fragile Sheila was on a mission against Neville, she probably realised Neville was the main threat? 

Nevill, who was wearing his pyjamas, had been shot 8 times. There were 2 wounds to the right side and 2 to the top of the head. If not immediately fatal, the combined effect of these 4 injuries would have been immediate unconsciousness and incapacitation. There was a wound to the left side of the lip and another to the left part of the lower jaw. This injury caused severe fracturing of the jaw, of the teeth in that area and damaged soft tissue in the neck and larynx. These features of this particular injury and the resultant flow of blood into the mouth meant, in the pathologist’s opinion, that Nevill would have been unable to engage in purposeful talk. There were also gunshot wounds to the left shoulder and a grazing wound above the left elbow.
Nevill’s body also had black eyes and a broken nose, linear bruising to the cheeks, lacerations to the head, linear type bruising to the right forearm, bruising to the left wrist and forearm and three circular burn type marks to the back.

She controlled the situation and rifle like a professional, leaving two bullets in the rifle to shoot herself just in case one didn’t finish the job, also realising she had to push the trigger and not pull the trigger while holding the rifle Steady to her throat, even after the first shot she had it all to do again? 

[Adam]

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10313.msg481453.html#msg481453

The straight forward Bamber scenario still stands. Matching the evidence.

But it has only been 35 years.

[Roch]

Whatever happened to 'a tale of two guns'.  The scenario of two guns, which I think the defence may have been conned out of considering early doors.

[Caroline]

Whatever happened to 'a tale of two guns'.  The scenario of two guns, which I think the defence may have been conned out of considering early doors.

Why would there be two guns? I don't think they were conned, just realised they wouldn't get anyhere with it.

[JackieD]

Seems the fragile Sheila was on a mission against Neville, she probably realised Neville was the main threat? 

Nevill, who was wearing his pyjamas, had been shot 8 times. There were 2 wounds to the right side and 2 to the top of the head. If not immediately fatal, the combined effect of these 4 injuries would have been immediate unconsciousness and incapacitation. There was a wound to the left side of the lip and another to the left part of the lower jaw. This injury caused severe fracturing of the jaw, of the teeth in that area and damaged soft tissue in the neck and larynx. These features of this particular injury and the resultant flow of blood into the mouth meant, in the pathologist’s opinion, that Nevill would have been unable to engage in purposeful talk. There were also gunshot wounds to the left shoulder and a grazing wound above the left elbow.
Nevill’s body also had black eyes and a broken nose, linear bruising to the cheeks, lacerations to the head, linear type bruising to the right forearm, bruising to the left wrist and forearm and three circular burn type marks to the back.

She controlled the situation and rifle like a professional, leaving two bullets in the rifle to shoot herself just in case one didn’t finish the job, also realising she had to push the trigger and not pull the trigger while holding the rifle Steady to her throat, even after the first shot she had it all to do again?

As usual you ignore the evidence, have you ever wondered why the case is always under review, it has been laid out clearly this is an unsafe conviction so carry on posting your stories that don’t add up and ignore Sheila’s illness.  I am under no illusion why you are here.
 One day try reading the facts of the case

[Roch]

Why would there be two guns? I don't think they were conned, just realised they wouldn't get anyhere with it.

I'd be interested in Mike's and ngb's thoughts on whether there may have been two guns involved. I find Pargeter's testimony a bit iffy.

[guest7363]

Seems the fragile Sheila was on a mission against Neville, she probably realised Neville was the main threat? 

Nevill, who was wearing his pyjamas, had been shot 8 times. There were 2 wounds to the right side and 2 to the top of the head. If not immediately fatal, the combined effect of these 4 injuries would have been immediate unconsciousness and incapacitation. There was a wound to the left side of the lip and another to the left part of the lower jaw. This injury caused severe fracturing of the jaw, of the teeth in that area and damaged soft tissue in the neck and larynx. These features of this particular injury and the resultant flow of blood into the mouth meant, in the pathologist’s opinion, that Nevill would have been unable to engage in purposeful talk. There were also gunshot wounds to the left shoulder and a grazing wound above the left elbow.
Nevill’s body also had black eyes and a broken nose, linear bruising to the cheeks, lacerations to the head, linear type bruising to the right forearm, bruising to the left wrist and forearm and three circular burn type marks to the back.

She controlled the situation and rifle like a professional, leaving two bullets in the rifle to shoot herself just in case one didn’t finish the job, also realising she had to push the trigger and not pull the trigger while holding the rifle Steady to her throat, even after the first shot she had it all to do again?

It seems some posters find this hard to believe, but this is the evidence, for Sheila to be the killer this is what happened.  So finding it hard to believe, their only defence is to get personal and offer no evidence, if they dispute this someone else must be the killer!

[JackieD]

Who exactly is they??

(Don’t forget your the one who contacted me by pm, I have never been your friend)

I might go through your nasty posts tonight and post all the personal attacks

Get a life and stop moaning because I don’t agree with you or your mates stories

I was such a good judge of character when you contacted me.

[David1819]

Seems the fragile Sheila was on a mission against Neville, she probably realised Neville was the main threat? 

Nevill, who was wearing his pyjamas, had been shot 8 times. There were 2 wounds to the right side and 2 to the top of the head. If not immediately fatal, the combined effect of these 4 injuries would have been immediate unconsciousness and incapacitation. There was a wound to the left side of the lip and another to the left part of the lower jaw. This injury caused severe fracturing of the jaw, of the teeth in that area and damaged soft tissue in the neck and larynx. These features of this particular injury and the resultant flow of blood into the mouth meant, in the pathologist’s opinion, that Nevill would have been unable to engage in purposeful talk. There were also gunshot wounds to the left shoulder and a grazing wound above the left elbow.
Nevill’s body also had black eyes and a broken nose, linear bruising to the cheeks, lacerations to the head, linear type bruising to the right forearm, bruising to the left wrist and forearm and three circular burn type marks to the back.

She controlled the situation and rifle like a professional, leaving two bullets in the rifle to shoot herself just in case one didn’t finish the job, also realising she had to push the trigger and not pull the trigger while holding the rifle Steady to her throat, even after the first shot she had it all to do again?

I don't believe Sheila knew there were two bullets left in the gun. Had there been just one left she would have just died slower.

[guest7363]

134. At one point during the interviews the appellant said that following the call from his father he had telephoned Julie Mugford before the police. It was pointed out to him that in his earlier witness statements he had said he rang the police immediately upon receipt of his father's call and only after calling the police had he rung Miss Mugford. He responded that he may be confused about the sequence of telephone calls. He could not explain why having received the call from his father he had not immediately telephoned 999.


The appellant said his sister had not previously fired the gun, although she had walked with him when he had been out shooting with his father.

So all the knowledge she gained on how to shoot, load and batter with a rifle, came when she was out walking?
 

135. He told the police that there were occasions when he gained entry to his parents' home by way of a number of the downstairs windows including those in the kitchen and the bathroom. He explained that he used a knife to move the catches in order that the window could be opened from the outside.

132. The appellant agreed that his mother's bicycle had been at his home during the week before the killings.

So Julie was telling the truth then?

A transcript of his cross-examination is available. In cross-examination the appellant said Sheila Caffell had frequent delusions and had spoken to him of suicide.

138. He admitted that the burglary at the caravan site had been motivated by greed and that by breaking a window and scattering papers around he had deliberately sought to give the impression it had been committed by somebody other than him.  Again, Julie was telling the truth

[guest7363]

I don't believe Sheila knew there were two bullets left in the gun. Had there been just one left she would have just died slower.

Maybe it was coincidental David.

[guest7363]

I don't believe Sheila knew there were two bullets left in the gun. Had there been just one left she would have just died slower.

Leaving one was a risk, considering the amount needed to kill the other victims?

[David1819]

Leaving one was a risk, considering the amount needed to kill the other victims?

The excess shots to the others was a combination of poor aim and overkill. Not so much from a lack firepower

[David1819]

Maybe it was coincidental David.

A gun is either loaded or it isn't. No other variables.