Marks on Nevils arm.

[Kaldin]

He was shot in the bedroom by his bed. After Jeremy entered.

So how did he get past Jeremy in order to go down to the kitchen?

[Caroline]

So how did he get past Jeremy in order to go down to the kitchen?

Personally, I don't think he had to get passed Jeremy. I think Jeremy came straight back to WHF after calling Julie (possibly on the pretence of apologising for an earlier argument over the rape seed load). I think he waited for Nevill to go in the shower (thus all adults are separated), shot the twins, then incapacitated June and Sheila and shot Nevill as he came up the stairs.

[Adam]

So how did he get past Jeremy in order to go down to the kitchen?

By running past him.

[Adam]

Hopefully supporters will now submit some suggestions.

It seems that no one is going to give any suggestions to reply 41.

Not sure why there is such passionate support for Jeremy if a basic question cannot be answered.

[Adam]

Supporters have to give some suggestions of what crazy thing/s Sheila was doing with the gun. Which simultaneously -

Made Nevill want to ring Jeremy.

Gave Nevill enough time to ring Jeremy.

---------

I cannot think of what she could have been doing.

Obviously Sheila had not started firing the rifle. As Nevill would not have been able to phone Jeremy.

Apart from firing the rifle, not sure what else Sheila could have been doing with it that would be crazy.

[Kaldin]

Personally, I don't think he had to get passed Jeremy. I think Jeremy came straight back to WHF after calling Julie (possibly on the pretence of apologising for an earlier argument over the rape seed load). I think he waited for Nevill to go in the shower (thus all adults are separated), shot the twins, then incapacitated June and Sheila and shot Nevill as he came up the stairs.

A very interesting theory. So you think that Nevill was still up when Jeremy came back. Wouldn't he have heard Jeremy getting into the house?

Then there's the issue of the cartridges in the bedroom. They were mostly grouped on the side of the bedroom nearest the door, but I suppose Nevill could have been shot as he got to the doorway from the landing.

I don't think he could have just incapacitated Sheila at that time. I think the two bullets fired at Sheila happened one after another, and I don't think Sheila would have been in the main bedroom at that time.

[Kaldin]

Obviously Sheila had not started firing the rifle. As Nevill would not have been able to phone Jeremy.

Apart from firing the rifle, not sure what else Sheila could have been doing with it that would be crazy.

Threatening to kill herself maybe? It depends on your definition of "crazy".

[Kaldin]

By running past him.

Oh right, so Nevill was injured and yet he managed to get past Jeremy who had a gun and get all the way to the kitchen before Jeremy caught up with him. It's possible that Jeremy was out of bullets at that point of course.

Is there any real evidence that Nevill was shot in the bedroom other than the presence of empty cartridges?

[Adam]

Threatening to kill herself maybe? It depends on your definition of "crazy".

Threatening to kill herself. Why?

How did that escalate to 4 x murder & a brutal fight. Why would Nevill ring Jeremy?

Nevill would just take the rifle off her.

[Kaldin]

Threatening to kill herself. Why?

How did that escalate to 4 x murder & a brutal fight. Why would Nevill ring Jeremy?

Nevill would just take the rifle off her.

People do threaten to kill themselves you know. According to Jeremy, there had been some debate about the children earlier.

It might not have occurred to Nevill that she would kill anyone else. Perhaps she was pointing the gun at her neck. Would you risk taking it off her?

Nevill might have phoned Jeremy so he could come and help talk her out of it.

[Adam]

Oh right, so Nevill was injured and yet he managed to get past Jeremy who had a gun and get all the way to the kitchen before Jeremy caught up with him. It's possible that Jeremy was out of bullets at that point of course.

Is there any real evidence that Nevill was shot in the bedroom other than the presence of empty cartridges?

We will have to go by the empty cartridges as evidence. Together with the fact that Nevill slept in the bedroom next to June who was also shot there. Where else would Bamber open fire on him? 

Nevill would have got past Bamber. He will move quickly if being shot at. 

[Adam]

People do threaten to kill themselves you know. According to Jeremy, there had been some debate about the children earlier.

It might not have occurred to Nevill that she would kill anyone else. Perhaps she was pointing the gun at her neck. Would you risk taking it off her?

Nevill might have phoned Jeremy so he could come and help talk her out of it.

Oh yes I forgot about the conversations with Sheila over supper.

Nevill did not do a very good job of persuading Jeremy to help him calm Sheila down. Eleven words in 4 seconds. Jeremy did not go within 50 feet of the front door.

[Kaldin]

We will have to go by the empty cartridges as evidence. Together with the fact that Nevill slept in the bedroom next to June who was also shot there. Where else would Bamber open fire on him? 

Nevill would have got past Bamber. He will move quickly if being shot at.

I've said that Nevill was shot in the bedroom, but there's no evidence that he just got out of bed. He wasn't shot in bed - that's obvious.

You don't agree with Caroline then. She thinks Nevill was shot as he came up the stairs.

[Kaldin]

Oh yes I forgot about the conversations with Sheila over supper.

Nevill did not do a very good job of persuading Jeremy to help him calm Sheila down. Eleven words in 4 seconds. Jeremy did not go within 50 feet of the front door.

Something might have happened to make Nevill drop the phone.

[Adam]

Something might have happened to make Nevill drop the phone.

Yes something must have happened.